Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lava Croft on June 23, 2006, 12:05:30 pm
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Hi, with all the fuzz going on about Alien crosshairs and such, I would just like to point out, and I think I speak for at least all the SATGNU admins, that adding crosshairs to the Alien HUD is considered Cheating or Hacking. Anyone caught with the crosshairs (don't ask me how we can ever catch anyone using it, if they dont say so themselves...) will get a ban.
I hope this is clear. Don't meddle with your PAKs.
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Prefer a grain of salt set to the center of your screen with a piece of scotch-tape :)
EDIT: the scotch-tape must be transparent !
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or instead of doing that. try playing quake 3 or half life with the crosshair turned off. that way you can get useed to where the center of the screen is. then just remember where to aim with a drech or goon for headshots ect.
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Or just cover your entire screen with white paper and put a small hole in the center.
Make sure to write "WHEN ENEMY APPEARS HERE, FIRE" just below the hole.
Best aimbot in the world, I swear.
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Or just cover your entire screen with white paper and put a small hole in the center.
Make sure to write "WHEN ENEMY APPEARS HERE, FIRE" just below the hole.
Best aimbot in the world, I swear.
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:O
Double Poster!
You could always try the human-only approach. Then you'll never find yourself owrryin about crosshairs :).
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:D You guys are too much! I do hope you guys kind of catch my drift, because where is the line when it comes to editing Trem? What is just harmless editing and what is cheating? Anyone?
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Anything that plays for you/aim for you or gives you info other players dont normaly get(think wallhacks, bright skins) are cheats.
Changes to the hud, binds, ect... just make the game a little more comfortable to play and are harmless editing, a lot of that stuff like the crosshair could be emulated outside the game with tape as others have said or a differently configured keyboard if you want to go that far with binds so its pointless trying to stop it, but binds that effect the game by for example eliminating recoil would fall into the cheat catagory.
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You make no sense...
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But surely a dretch cross hair by many peoples own admission makes it easier for them to play as a dretch. So therefore it is giving them an advantage they wouldnt have without it, an advantage other people dont have. Therefore it can be considered an unfair cheat.
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But surely a dretch cross hair by many peoples own admission makes it easier for them to play as a dretch. So therefore it is giving them an advantage they wouldnt have without it, an advantage other people dont have. Therefore it can be considered an unfair cheat.
Any trivial cheat cannot be considered unfair or even a cheat.
And since this one just needs some marker in the center of the screen, this cheat is now to be considered trivial and thus not a cheat ;)
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I guess it does not make it easier for them but just more comfortable. They have a feeling that it is easier, but it is not.
In fact an alien crosshair does not give you any real advantage, as aiming as a dretch is done by movement and not by putting something in a crosshair and firing. As you cannot effectively stop this, people may apply some "tape-hardware-cheat", the whole discussion is pointless anyway.
The same discussion happened months ago when Call of Duty 2 came out. You don't have a crosshair while moving in that game. Using a "software-crosshair" is considered a cheat, but using a stripe of tape with a dot on the screen cannot be evidenced.
In CoD² it actually gives you an advantage. In Tremulous it just makes some people more comfortable. If you can play as a dretch without a crosshair, fine. If you have played shooters only with crosshair for years and a crosshair makes you feel more comfortable, use it for god's sake. ;)
Just my 10 cents.
Danny
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I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned. Because I ask you all again, where do you draw the line? What is merely making people feel more comfortable and what is cheating? Giving my Dretches a different color, like fluorescent green, makes me feel more comfortable, for example. And another player would like the Tubes to be red, because it makes him feel more comfortable, and so on.
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Oh yeah , and the fluo dretches should have spikes going out of their tiny body in all directions , makes them look scarier :P
Tremulous may need a file consistency check if it becomes widespread...
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...So the dretches can fucking aim, maybe?
It's already been stated that dretches, etc. can turn on crosshairs in the options menu next version.
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I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned. Because I ask you all again, where do you draw the line? What is merely making people feel more comfortable and what is cheating? Giving my Dretches a different color, like fluorescent green, makes me feel more comfortable, for example. And another player would like the Tubes to be red, because it makes him feel more comfortable, and so on.
I totally agree with that...any form of messing around with the game is cheating.
The fact you feel more comfortable with crosshair clearly show that it is an unfair advantage.
About "tape style cheat"...good luck with TFT screen...and personnally i wouldn t want to put an ugly tape on my CRT screen.
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As I just said, you cannot prove someone using this. If you think it is necessary to ban people using it you must do so.
We could start banning people with rate 3000 either. They are lagging, at least... ;)
Danny
P.S.: I am against meddling with things to get an unfair advantage. If people want to customize their games and nobody gets hurt, why not? You cannot prevent them anyway in a completely open game.
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Well, are binds considered cheats? I have binds, but I've managed not to get comfortable with them, so I'm still swapping items and buying stuff the old way, which is slower and makes me lose concentration. When people first started binding, was it considered a cheat?
Humans binding makes using items much faster and easier. Being able to activate jets and toss grenades without going through menus gives humans an edge in battle. Aliens bind evolutions and maybe building, but I do believe binding gives humans an added advantage during fights that aliens don't get. Is it cheating?
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I use crosshairs on aliens and they do make enough of a difference that it is worth making the change. I also use lots of binds so that I don't have to stand still when evolving, building or using the armory. I think the advantage of binds is far greater than the advantage of the crosshairs. Even so, the question of 'Where do you draw the line?' is pretty simple.
The answer is cfg files.
cfg files are meant to be edited. So my binds are all perfectly legal, but the crosshairs are less clear cut, because while they are done with custom cfg files, you have to point your hud away from the default file which is "txt", not "cfg" and from there you create new .menu files which define the HUD. There is no "messing with PAK files" involved, other than being aware of what is in them.
When I asked Timbo "Crosshairs, legal or no?" his response was "probably not, but meh... it's open source"
There is a fine line too between personalising your game and holding an unfair advantage. I am not looking for an unfair advantage, here are my HUD files, use them if you want:
http://www.evilbastard.org/slight/chompers-ui.zip
unzip to base and type "/cg_hudfiles ui/chompers.cfg" from console to activate.
/cg_hudfiles ui/menu.txt to deactivate
You must start a map for the changes to kick in.
Here's a list of changes in my HUD. These customisations are closer to fixes than exploits IMHO:
* Player names are smaller.
* Timer is larger and more prominently positioned.
* Small crosshair on all aliens except granger.
* Adv. Dragoon barbs are positioned vertically beneath the crosshairs to be more prominent. This may also assist in judging height vs. distance if you get used to it.
* Darker background on human HUD so you can clearly see credits and build points remaining when holding the construction kit.
Don't use this HUD if/when you play on SATGNU tho. ;)
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Good idea, chomps. Just hope nobody kicks you (which they probably won't, but there's no telling :/ ).
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I don't see the problem with it, people can use them if they want though I don't personally. If your aim is that bad that you need them then its only fair, kinda like alien training wheels.
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i did wot u said and now when i go to connect to a server it says something chompers is using defualt or sometihng and then i cant use the arror on the game :S
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I am backing Lava croft there a 100%.
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I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned.
Well than, ban TJW. And anyone using his patches executables. Problems start with the people running patched servers....uh-oh, no way to ban them.
Keep it easy guys...this game is opensource, so it should be fairly simple to create your own cheat-client if you want that. And since there's no punkbuster or s/t, noone could really prove it. Period. Just let the people use different ingame-guis and crosshairs and stuff, and be happy there are no REAL cheaters out there (at least, i've never seen one. And no, a one-hit-kill as dretch doesn't count [96dmg/headshot, believe it or not] ;))
Many other opensource onlinegames have big problems with cheatclients, just be happy that we don't.
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I still stand by my post, but I should clarify what I understand with
Hi, with all the fuzz going on about Alien crosshairs and such...
This I understand as using something, an external hack (e.g. preloaded lib) or a selfmade client that gives the user a software advantage that the other/normal players are unable to obtain.
Stahlsau, you mentioned TJW's mod. That is the perfect example .)
His mod is freely available to all, even included in the svn-version of trem iirc. But I'd consent to let other clients connect, if those are also freely available _AND_ don't give an advantage to the average user/player.
On a side note.
We don't have to convict someone of being a cheater...
Remember that the Owners/Admins have to consider the whole gameplay/fun on the servers. So if someone shows skill above the average player and rages/owns a server, that player should be asked to leave. No one likes to get owned over and over again.
The same is also valid, to a lesser degree, for noobs. If they don't learn fast and make to many mistakes they also should be asked to leave.
Both, Pro and Noob, should play on servers where their skill is either matched or slightly lower than the average player there.
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Caveman,
reading what you just wrote made me realize that you've picked the perfect name for yourself.
If hummies are allowed to use binds, aliens should feel free to use crosshairs. Simple as that.
While both options give the player a possible advantage, it's not even close to cheating, since it doesn't alter or improve their abilities. A crosshair doesn't aim for you. It just makes it easier for YOU to aim.
Also, remember that the slightes bit of high ping will render the crosshair useless (as it does with the hummie crosshair) so binds still carry a larger benefit.
I personally don't use binds nor alien crosshair but I have no problems with either.
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Phreak, you did not understand a word of my post.
It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".
I might be a caveman, granted, but more often than not I at least grasp what it is about before I post :) can you say the same?
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Alien crosshair and hummie binds are as readily available as TJW's mod....so yeah, I grasp the post before I reply to it.
Any other questions?
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lol, you just got owned, without any doing by me *G*
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It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".
I dont get it, so if I post a radar hack in form of easily installable mod you will be ok with it?
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Free aimbot:
I have steal a 5 years old boy, that sit on my legs. I have teached him to press the attack key if he see the enemy on the center of screen. If the enemy killme, I kick his head with a big club to teache him more. If the guy die I steal another one. : I
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It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".
I dont get it, so if I post a radar hack in form of easily installable mod you will be ok with it?
Never argue about a dumb thing with a moron. He's a lot more experienced than you ever will be.
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Chompers, there is no lagometer, and that makes me sad.
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@Paradox: cg_lagometer "1"
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This I understand as using something, an external hack (e.g. preloaded lib) or a selfmade client that gives the user a software advantage that the other/normal players are unable to obtain.
Do you actually believe this crap? Cross hairs is not software. It is not a hack. It doesn't move your character or fire his weapons. It is a dot on the screen. Do you really disaprove of drawing pictures onto the screen before playing? If you can do it with a marker (referring only to 1st person shooters) it is in no way cheating? Just because it gives you an advantage does not make it wrong. Human binds give a strong advantage against noobs as does evo binds. a custom config can be a huge advantage but that is not cheating. Would you like to guesss how many times i have been killed with my evo window up, I would of survive 90% of those times i was killed if i had a quick button to evolve with.
On a side note.
We don't have to convict someone of being a cheater...
Remember that the Owners/Admins have to consider the whole gameplay/fun on the servers. So if someone shows skill above the average player and rages/owns a server, that player should be asked to leave. No one likes to get owned over and over again.
The same is also valid, to a lesser degree, for noobs. If they don't learn fast and make to many mistakes they also should be asked to leave.
Both, Pro and Noob, should play on servers where their skill is either matched or slightly lower than the average player there.
Are you high? Some people do like to get owned. I do. I want someone to really show me my mistakes so i can improve. Kicking noobs because they aren't any good, ok hitler. I hate to break it to you, it isn't about winning it is about having fun. We do not need to kick people to even the teams that is ridicuolous.
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I play with Alien crosshairs and it gives no advantage. In fact, I won't care if it was removed. I like it because it gives a sense of orientation and focus. But it hasn't helped with anything really. It just feels more comfortable with crosshairs than without. I guarentee that if alien crosshairs were added by default, you wouldn't see an improvement across servers. Its just more natural to have them up.
Getting a headshot its harder than point and click for aliens. I can't see why anyone would object at all.
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Getting a headshot its harder than point and click for aliens
no, it's exactly point and click!
just make sure you're headed at the right velocity with the right positioning and... :roll:
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Sheesh how dumb must you be NoSpin?
If you have a tool-box and you need to hang up a picture, you surely can take out the wrench and hit the nail...
It will work, but only a moron would not use the hammer.
Now compare Trmulous with the tool-box.
Where does that lead us?
Back to said moron, that uses the pop-up instead of binds.
And guess what? That same tool-box is provided to everyone.
And it's not just the people with the higher IQ that would use the hammer.
As for the hitler-part (I don't even know what this insult is about, you might want to explain that.)
Wake up, YOU don't own most of the server you play on.
The guys with the money to set up a server do.
There is no democracy involved. If an admin don't like you, be it because of you haircolor or whatever, he has the right to kick/ban you.
And you know what? There is absolutely nothing you can do about.
You can not force someone to give you something you did not pay for.
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Sheesh how dumb must you be NoSpin?
If you have a tool-box and you need to hang up a picture, you surely can take out the wrench and hit the nail...
It will work, but only a moron would not use the hammer.
Now compare Trmulous with the tool-box.
Where does that lead us?
Back to said moron, that uses the pop-up instead of binds.
And guess what? That same tool-box is provided to everyone.
And it's not just the people with the higher IQ that would use the hammer.
As for the hitler-part (I don't even know what this insult is about, you might want to explain that.)
Wake up, YOU don't own most of the server you play on.
The guys with the money to set up a server do.
There is no democracy involved. If an admin don't like you, be it because of you haircolor or whatever, he has the right to kick/ban you.
And you know what? There is absolutely nothing you can do about.
You can not force someone to give you something you did not pay for.
I appologize I do not speak your language. All I hear is incoherent rambling. Please explain your point clearly so that I can understand what you are talking about.
I never claimed to own the server.
Not allowing people to play because they are too good or too bad sounds like fasism to me (although Hitler was a Nazi they both seem to express the point the same)
I never complained about people getting kicked based on ability I am just expressing my opinion about it and you.
I am completly lost on the whole hammer and wrench analogy.
What exactly did I not pay for?
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All of you fuckers are rambling, adding Alien crosshairs is cheating, no matter what that cheating fucker Chompers says. Or the fucker Caveman. Or who-fucking-ever. Alien crosshairs will be considered legal the moment they make it into an official Tremulous release.
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All of you fuckers are rambling, adding Alien crosshairs is cheating, no matter what that cheating fucker Chompers says. Or the fucker Caveman. Or who-fucking-ever. Alien crosshairs will be considered legal the moment they make it into an official Tremulous release.
A cheat has to give someone an advantage. I think what I've said and few others, is that Alien crosshairs is barely an advantage and cannot be compared to other cheats. Its just a convenience.
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And again, the same false argument in favor of Alien crosshair : "it gives no advantage so its ok to use it"
If it really gives no advantage, then its useless to use it...So we can remove it and it wont matter to you.
I know you cant find any valid argument to defend the use of a crosshair, but we re not stupid SO STOP DEFENDING THE ALIEN CROSSHAIR WITH THE LOOSY "NO ADVANTAGE ARGUMENT" :evil:
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Ok..today im gonna add a dot in the middle of my screen
(people say) ZOMGWTFBBQ UR A HAXXOR FOR HAVING A DOT IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN
:x -.- :x
the only thing i say to you is....ITS A DOT
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BUT IF THE DOT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL, WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET RID OF IT?!?!/1/1 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
</capslock></poorlyveiledsarcasm>
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/r_gamma > 1.0 is also cheating in my mind, remove it, PLZ. Every mapper would love this decision :>
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rofl
dont you just love internet arguments
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And again, the same false argument in favor of Alien crosshair : "it gives no advantage so its ok to use it"
If it really gives no advantage, then its useless to use it...So we can remove it and it wont matter to you.
I know you cant find any valid argument to defend the use of a crosshair, but we re not stupid SO STOP DEFENDING THE ALIEN CROSSHAIR WITH THE LOOSY "NO ADVANTAGE ARGUMENT" :evil:
Do bindings give an advantage?
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To be honest, I think binds give a lot more advantage than a crosshair.
Besides I say neither crosshairs or binds actually do anything for you, they merely help you to do what you intend to do.
Aimbot does the work for you, and hence, is a cheat.
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The only reason I would admit that I use crosshairs is because its so not an advantage. I wish it did something better. In fact, I can think of some ways to improve it. But all in all, its minor.
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To be honest, I think binds give a lot more advantage than a crosshair.
Besides I say neither crosshairs or binds actually do anything for you, they merely help you to do what you intend to do.
Aimbot does the work for you, and hence, is a cheat.
doesn't aimbot just do what you intended to do? Aim at the guy's head in front of you?
Really though. There is a config file, we are allowed to modify it to customize our play. Adding crosshairs is simply writing text into that config file.
We are not accessing the server and uploading or downloading any information that we normally wouldn't download/upload through ussually game play.
We are not opening up Trem in a Hex editor and changing code.
We are customizing our config file.
Yes it does give us an advantage.
It is a fraction of the advantage given by hotkeys.
Why are you really mad about us doing it?
Do you really think it is a huge advantage?
Or are you offended anyone might do something that Trem did not explicitly state that you can do?
I wonder how many of you played Tribes where not only could you add crosshairs but you could add a rear view mirror along with any other concievable hud and be encouraged to do so by the game designers and server admins? Not to mention you were the ones writing the code for these HUDs or downloading them from another player.
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All of you fuckers are rambling, adding Alien crosshairs is cheating, no matter what that cheating fucker Chompers says. Or the fucker Caveman. Or who-fucking-ever. Alien crosshairs will be considered legal the moment they make it into an official Tremulous release.
My config file prior to the cross hairs was not in the official Trem release. Does that mean that using said config file is cheating? BTW Caveman agrees with you.
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NoSpin, you do not understand English, as you admitted here.
So you don't understand us.
Just leave me out and check the meaning of "readily available" then come back, or try to learn the meaning of the words posted here, maybe, just maybe you'd be able to actually contribute to this thread instead of just trolling around.
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Dear Retards, configuration files serve a different purpose than art assets. I will leave it at that, since I have the feeling that any more words aimed at you will just fly by your thick heads.
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whats the god dam fuss about!!!!!111111
i could draw a dot or a cross on my screen in marker pen
or
i could not ruin my screen and i could have crosshairs
whats the difference!!!!!!!!!, and even if you ban people/get rid of cross hairs, people can put a grain of rock salt with tape on the centre
Zomg u killed me cHEaTorzzzZ .111!!!! hes using salt!!!!!!bna teh hackOR!
anway, i didnt ask for crosshairs, but for some reason when i enter different servers, they appear, wtf?
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what would be cheat is having a vertical line up the screen to aid in granger spit and sniping :)
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r_gamma > 1.0 is also cheating in my mind, remove it, PLZ. Every mapper would love this decision :>
r_gamma is just another way to set ur brightness.. u know its how u type it out instead of moving the bar thingy.. it came with the game its part of the game so nothing is wrong with it.. i can set it to 20 if i want so nah!!! i actually have it on 2..
alien crosshairs didnt come with release is not part of game hence its bad imo...
but then again i dont give a f'n crap as long as my trem works and i can still pwn all u cheaters and non cheaters all is well... :)
sooo.... hows the weather?? hows life??
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/r_gamma > 1.0 is also cheating in my mind, remove it, PLZ. Every mapper would love this decision :>
AND LETS GET RID OF THE SOUND ADJUSTMENT SETTINGS! AND THE MOUSE ADJUSTMENT SETTINGS!
Face it, you may remove it, but the person will then just open the graphics card control panel, and add an app configuration that does it automatically.
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Unknown"]alien crosshairs didnt come with release is not part of game hence its bad imo...
I do like that computer someone asked me to fix. You see, there was that uncanny bug ( I never managed to fix btw ) : when playing unreal tournament, the mouse cursor wouldn't disapear ! The game was in full screen but there would still be the white windows mouse cursor right in the middle of the screen.
If that happened with trem, would this be considered cheating? :D
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What about if you have a crosshair screen-burned into your monitor?
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What about if you have a crosshair screen-burned into your monitor?
some people would say your a dirty HaxxXor!111
i would say your a fool for doing it lawl
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Why are you guys arguing about this anyway?
If you want the crosshair, put it in.
If you're against it, go fuck yourself since there is nothing you can do about it nor be able to tell if someone uses it.
End of story.
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NoSpin, you do not understand English, as you admitted here.
So you don't understand us.
Just leave me out and check the meaning of "readily available" then come back, or try to learn the meaning of the words posted here, maybe, just maybe you'd be able to actually contribute to this thread instead of just trolling around.
No, I never said I do not understand English, I said I do not understand what ever language that you are speaking, which although it contains English words it is certainly not English.
Please explain the hammer and wrench analogy I really cannot wait to hear this.
You can not force someone to give you something you did not pay for.
I also am eagerly awaiting for you to explian what I want someone to give me that I did not pay for.
Please reread your response and explain it to yourself. I am interested to hear if you even understand what you are talking about.
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Why are you guys arguing about this anyway?
If you want the crosshair, put it in.
If you're against it, go fuck yourself since there is nothing you can do about it nor be able to tell if someone uses it.
End of story.
lol
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Unknown"]alien crosshairs didnt come with release is not part of game hence its bad imo...
I do like that computer someone asked me to fix. You see, there was that uncanny bug ( I never managed to fix btw ) : when playing unreal tournament, the mouse cursor wouldn't disapear ! The game was in full screen but there would still be the white windows mouse cursor right in the middle of the screen.
If that happened with trem, would this be considered cheating? :D
excellent point
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free aimbot at:
htttp://www.freeaimbots.ru/hacks/freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe
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Why are you guys arguing about this anyway?
If you want the crosshair, put it in.
If you're against it, go fuck yourself since there is nothing you can do about it nor be able to tell if someone uses it.
End of story.
lol
Once again, i agree with Phreak. He's right! He is RIGHT! He's just right and theres nothing you can do about it! The only part I don't agree on is the there is nothing you can do about it
Because if ppl with da adminrights DO find out, (About 0.0000000000000000000000001 * 10^-12938100023914987231 chance that this will happen) they can kick, ban, kickban, or warn the so-called "cheaters"
I think its cheating though, and I would say this:
Everyone should find the honour and dignity in themselves to PLAY FAIR and HAVE FUN and NOT CHEAT
Because if this can't happen, no one can have fun with trem the fair way.
End of (my) story
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:eek: OMG double post...
Unknown"]alien crosshairs didnt come with release is not part of game hence its bad imo...
I do like that computer someone asked me to fix. You see, there was that uncanny bug ( I never managed to fix btw ) : when playing unreal tournament, the mouse cursor wouldn't disapear ! The game was in full screen but there would still be the white windows mouse cursor right in the middle of the screen.
If that happened with trem, would this be considered cheating? :D
excellent point
Yes, nospin, this IS an ecxellent point. Stof you have once again proven yourself forum-worthy. If THIS happened, I would not call it cheating. I would just call stof a lucky bastad :P
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Arguing about having a crosshair in an fps is retarded. I hope you all feel sufficiently pleased with yourself because anyone who reads this idiocy is going to lose all faith in humanity and subsequently go hang themselves. To quote Mencia, "Der der derrr!"
fucking hell...
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Arn't FPS aka First person shooters supposed to have crosshairs? Think about all the FPS games that have a crosshair....whats so different about tremulous?..i guess you can argue witht hat their is aliens...but then i would argue their just another class like in quake 3.
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I know what you mean, you get people who say its cheating because it doesn't come with the game, then go on about how binds are okay even though they don't come with the game you add them after.
How about making a locked trem that has no options or console to change stuff with, that way the little trolls like lava will be happy.
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It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".
I dont get it, so if I post a radar hack in form of easily installable mod you will be ok with it?
I don't think so if your'e allowed that surely some master could make a 3d compass that pionts a line from the centre to a piont representing another players position and have a diamond target pop up on screen over the other player when they enter view (no auto aim)
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The difference is that radar can be done without any actual code. Most other stuff would require actual code modification. (If, however, positions of enemies around -- not in front of -- you were only provided to people actually wearing helmets, that wouldn't matter.)
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The difference is that radar can be done without any actual code. Most other stuff would require actual code modification. (If, however, positions of enemies around -- not in front of -- you were only provided to people actually wearing helmets, that wouldn't matter.)
Though that idea would be great, maybe its a great idea to actually be inplemented with the helmet. but if it wasn't in the game? that would be VERY close to cheating.
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free aimbot at:
htttp://www.freeaimbots.ru/hacks/freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe
thats a trojan you know
who ever typed that name ment
free aim bot cough trojan cough.exe
in other words
this is a free aim bot *cough* trojan *cough*
free aim bot caugh trojan caugh.exe
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HOW ABOUT WE ALL GET AIMBOTS THEN WE CAN ALL PLAY TOGETHER AND SEE WHO HAS THE BEST ONE LOL
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free aimbot at:
htttp://www.freeaimbots.ru/hacks/freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe
thats a trojan you know
who ever typed that name ment
free aim bot cough trojan cough.exe
in other words
this is a free aim bot *cough* trojan *cough*
free aim bot caugh trojan caugh.exe
Are you serious? I thought a file named freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe, with all its professional looking title and perfect spelling would be a legitimate program. I just can't believe that a binary on some obviously high class Russian website would be infected.
I intend to install that on all the computers at work (my coworkers can't aim worth shit).
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The difference is that radar can be done without any actual code. Most other stuff would require actual code modification. (If, however, positions of enemies around -- not in front of -- you were only provided to people actually wearing helmets, that wouldn't matter.)
it would be hard to make game.qvm send surrounding players positions only to helmet users/aliens, after all humans without helmet can also HEAR other players that are arround the corner/on the other side of the door/behind them. One would have to make a new class just for sending sound effect positions that are not on players screen (player is facing other direction) plus maybe write some magic player model[bbox]-player eyes LOS detection routine. Sounds like a lot of coding.
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It would be hard, but not only because of that : if you do not get the info of the players around you, you cannot turn around quickly without huge visible bugs ( players poping out of nowhere ).
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Whats wrong with a little crosshair anyway? It doesn't hurt anyone.
Not that I use it, but I don't see a big threat to national security!
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Not that I use it, but I don't see a big threat to national security!
YES IT IS, YOU SHALL PAY FOR YOUR IGNORANCE!
j/k :D
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Adding stuff to your HUD is cheating. Period.
If you want a crosshairs, ask TremDev to add them, which they probably will. Until then, refrain from 'hacking' Tremulous.
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Adding stuff to your HUD is cheating. Period.
If you want a crosshairs, ask TremDev to add them, which they probably will. Until then, refrain from 'hacking' Tremulous.
if they didn't want you modifying the hud, they would have cheat protected the variable.
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Adding stuff to your HUD is cheating. Period.
If you want a crosshairs, ask TremDev to add them, which they probably will. Until then, refrain from 'hacking' Tremulous.
if they didn't want you modifying the hud, they would have cheat protected the variable.
Nonsense. Why can't you people wait until the next release of Tremulous before starting to cheat your way to Alien crosshairs.
As a last thing, a quote from Norfenstein:
<Norfenstein> I like how people assume the developers consider tremulous to be perfect and complete -_-
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People will never stop hacking games. I myself have done miniscule Halo hacking, but not for online play. It's just something to do when you've clocked the game and your getting bored.
I say again, I DO NOT hack tremulous or any other online game. I don't actually know how!
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Adding stuff to your HUD is cheating. Period.
If you want a crosshairs, ask TremDev to add them, which they probably will. Until then, refrain from 'hacking' Tremulous.
if they didn't want you modifying the hud, they would have cheat protected the variable.
If *god* didn't want me murdering every one of you, he/she would have made you immortal.
Now... where did I leave my stabbyknife...
To make my point clear; being able to do something doesn't mean you should do it.
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free aimbot at:
htttp://www.freeaimbots.ru/hacks/freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe
thats a trojan you know
who ever typed that name ment
free aim bot cough trojan cough.exe
in other words
this is a free aim bot *cough* trojan *cough*
free aim bot caugh trojan caugh.exe
Are you serious? I thought a file named freeaimbotcaughtrojancaugh.exe, with all its professional looking title and perfect spelling would be a legitimate program. I just can't believe that a binary on some obviously high class Russian website would be infected.
I intend to install that on all the computers at work (my coworkers can't aim worth shit).
:P
I was poiting it out to the oblivious people
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If crosshair usage was cheating, why have the devs not said so? :roll:
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When I asked Timbo "Crosshairs, legal or no?" his response was "probably not, but meh... it's open source"
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When I asked Timbo "Crosshairs, legal or no?" his response was "probably not, but meh... it's open source"
So the devs (Timbo anyway) don't realy care if you use alien crosshairs.
And, as was stated ealrier, mostly it's newbs who use them, after a while they instinctivly aim the middle of the screen at the enemy, not bothering to look at the crosshair much.
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Big Bump!
***Hot News***
Look over here (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2376) for some video footage of a cheater!
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Read the above post for the signs to look for in a whiner.
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Wow, "crosshairs" (1/2cm square piece of black electrical tape stuck on screen using human crosshair as a reference) improved my dretch-play remarkably. Whether that says something about my overall skill in general, I feel, is besides the point. It WAS an advantage. Being a fair person I must admit, I did try it on SATGNU* I hope that doesn't merrit a ban. After reading these mixed views on the subject, being at first, indifferent myself, I HAD to give it a go.
Before trying this out, I assumed the people who mentioned marker pen/tape etc... to be saying it completely sarcasticly. Now I'm unsure.
It worked for me, and I think I may continue to use this "hack"(?) if it's deemed legal.
REALY, NO sarcasm here, Honestly
no, REALY
*In fairness, although I DID use this external mod on SATGNU(ok here's some sarcasm at last->) and I realise the tape wasn't in the original Tremulous package (end of sarcasm) It is essential that I point out I played very briefly, and my choice of server was purely ping related. I would like a SATGNU admins view on this.
[edit->]
I forgot to add perhaps my most astonishing descovery, It was not so much the kills/headshots (although it did help) But I found that genral navigation was made much easier (NO bumping into walls when going around a corner)
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and I think I may continue to use this "hack"(?) if it's deemed legal.
while the hardware hack works fairly well (note: i'm using hack in the original sense of the word, not the OMG HE'S CHEATING sense), chomper's hud does much less damage to expensive lcds, and is a bit prettier.
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You all fell for it. Sweet.
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I don't know why I'm throwing myself amidst this argument but...
I'm on Lava's side here (although maybe not as extreme). Let me explain my stance!
P.S. Reader's Digest version: I don't really care about alien crosshairs per se but in principle it's still a cheat.
1. Modifying the game (externally) to give yourself an advantage (no matter how slim) is cheating. For example, if you were playing poker and you brought in an ace of spades from under the table into your hand that is cheating. YES there is an ace of spades in the deck, but you were not given it within the context of the game. Just because it exists within the confines of the game does not give you the right to use it whenever you choose. This applies to changing the GUI, sticking a piece of tape on your screen, whatever.
Think of it this way: Let's pretend that instead of the middle of the screen the actual spot that counted for a hit was half an inch up and 3/4 inches to the left of center. That is sufficiently different that it would take some getting used to (especially for seasoned gamers). Adding a crosshair in this instance would DEFINITELY give you an advantage. Now, for the n00b gamer, having the spot in the exact middle is difficult enough (although it's not too bad if you can visualize the centre of a rectangle). So, as everyone says, a crosshair gives an advantage. Since it is not yet included in the official release then it is a cheat.
Of course, if I owned a server, I would not ban for using crosshairs (if there were any way of knowing) since it only really helps the n00bs and (let's face it) they need all the help they can get.
1b. Everyone says that in Q3 you were allowed to do this and that, blah, blah, blah. This is NOT Q3. As a side note (slightly off topic), some people are using GUI mods to add in permanent radars for humans. If I owned a server (and there were an easy way to prove it) I would instantly perma-ban anyone doing this. One could argue that this is the same as adding an alien crosshair: only client-side files are being manipulated so no problem, right? Wrong. For the same reasons as in point 1., this is cheating.
2. Binds are not cheating. These can be added in game and are used by the UI to set preferences, such as WASD for movement. Most people modify binds externally however this is merely a one-shot time saver as opposed to a cheat because you can enter the exact same information through the console in-game. However this just adds unnecessary tedium to the process. All you kiddies out there who abstain from using binds because you think they're cheats can relax.
3. I think everyone knows that aimbots are cheats. Just to be clear, though, aimbots are cheats.
I think that about covers this topic. I don't imagine this argument will persuade any of you to change your ways but so be it. Just don't be pricks about it when you're on someone's server and they ask you to stop using whatever excess thing you're using.
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Technically speaking, binds give someone a definite edge because they have a disproportionally easier and faster time getting upgrades and evolutions while others need to stop and navigate the menu. Same can be said of people using a teamchat program to avoid typing; they don't need to stop cold to give advice/orders.
Of course, the defining difference is that binds are known to be universally acceptable; hence it is considered customizing your gameplay as opposed to cheating. Now, if EVERYONE were given the option of a human pera-radar, that would be ok to, BUT helmet giving radar is a tactical part of the gameplay in general, and it is universally considered cheating if you can give yourself an advantage externally that is otherwise obtained in-game through any sort of tampering. There's the difference.
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Of course, if I owned a server, I would not ban for using crosshairs (if there were any way of knowing) since it only really helps the n00bs and (let's face it) they need all the help they can get.
amen. For me, the question is fully answered. I'll continue using my hardware mod untill my skill reaches a level on par with the other players on the servers I play. Happy gaming.
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pyrax, alien crosshairs are not external modifications. The crosshairs are not hard coded into the game (unlike some things that probably should not be). So using your analogy of a card game, it is like playing double solitaire where the decks are different colors.
1b. This is not Quake 3 where, AFAIK, Id hasn't explicitly stated whether custom HUDs are allowed or not (although, I'm pretty sure they are from reading the EULA). This is Tremulous where Timbo has said that there is no problem.
2. Not despite, but because of the fact that doing almost anything in Tremulous relies on binds, using custom binds is "modifying the game to give yourself an advantage" and should be considered cheating by you.
If by "external modifications", you mean things that cannot be fully duplicated from the console (does this include third part programs such as many aim bots or a voice chat program?), using tjw's backports or updated servers is cheating. In fact, this is as close to crosshairs as you can get. But no one complains about that because the intent is not to cheat.
How do you define cheating? I tried to define it here (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2181) and asked for other peoples' definitions, but that pretty much turned into a copy of this thread and died.
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pyrax, alien crosshairs are not external modifications. The crosshairs are not hard coded into the game (unlike some things that probably should not be). So using your analogy of a card game, it is like playing double solitaire where the decks are different colors.
To my knowledge you have to alter a file from outside the game in order to enable alien crosshairs. This makes it an external modification. Can you enable a dretch crosshair strictly from within the game?
1b. This is not Quake 3 where, AFAIK, Id hasn't explicitly stated whether custom HUDs are allowed or not (although, I'm pretty sure they are from reading the EULA). This is Tremulous where Timbo has said that there is no problem.
Fair enough. I stand by my statements that adding crosshairs where they aren't (YET, I know they're scheduled for the next release) and ESPECIALLY a permanent human radar are cheating. Changing the layout of your HUD is just fine though.
2. Not despite, but because of the fact that doing almost anything in Tremulous relies on binds, using custom binds is "modifying the game to give yourself an advantage" and should be considered cheating by you.
Well I'm not quite sure how you arrived at this conclusion. You mean to tell me that if I rebind my movement keys to TFGH instead of WASD that I'm somehow cheating? (In the extreme case: what if I have really short arms and can't reach the left side of my keyboard while simultaneously operating the mouse with my right hand?)
If by "external modifications", you mean things that cannot be fully duplicated from the console (does this include third part programs such as many aim bots or a voice chat program?), using tjw's backports or updated servers is cheating. In fact, this is as close to crosshairs as you can get. But no one complains about that because the intent is not to cheat.
Strictly speaking, I suppose. Although I thought TJW's mod was more or less "official" since, as a Mac player, I wouldn't be able to game otherwise. Servers themselves can't be "cheating" since they aren't client side. If a server changes something then everyone on the server is going to be playing by the same rules anyway.
If my (theoretical) server were instead hosting CS, then you'd be cheating to play Tremulous 1.1.0...
As for aimbots, well, I discussed those in point 3. Voice chat programs don't modify the game. Sure you can communicate with people easier but so can someone who's friend is playing on their LAN on the computer right beside them.
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On every bigger League/Tournament World Wide u must play Pure, except from specifically listest modifications.
http://www.clanbase.com/cheating.php?lid=2804
Cheating
In-game cheating during a ClanBase match:
* Traces of cheats (e.g. variable settings) without actual cheating: 1-season cup ban + 3-month ladder ban for the player, forfeit loss for the clan.
* Cheating (aimbot, wallhack, spiked models, ...): permanent ban for the player, removal of the clan from the cup or ladder the match was for. Since the player will be assumed to have cheated in all matches he has played, all results of matches he participated in will be changed to forfeit losses for his clans. If there are three or more such matches in the same ladder with the same clan, that clan is removed from the ladder. Two forfeit losses in the same cup always lead to removal from the cup.
In-game cheating outside ClanBase:
* On a Public / Clan server or during a match in another league/cup outside ClanBase: punishments are the same as for cheating during a CB match, however ClanBase will only act if the evidence of the cheating is brought to us in full and the identity of the cheater can be determined with certainty. If the evidence is unclear or incomplete, the report will be discarded. Clans will not be held responsible for the actions of their players on public servers unless the cheating player is the clan leader, or the player remains in the clan after it is brought to our attention, in which case the clan(s) will be deleted. Read the FAQ for the procedure to report external cheats.
Using a banned player (also applies to ClanBase Hosted Cups) :
* Unknowingly: forfeit losses in all the matches the player played in.
* Knowingly: removal of the clan, 1-season cup & 3 months ladder ban for the players who played with him/her in a match.
Producing and/or distributing:
* Game exploits: 1-season cup ban + 3-month ladder ban.
* Cheats (wallhack, aimbot, etc): permanent ban.
7. Cheating and abuse
1. The cheating and abuse policy applies to all ClanBase ladders. Any cheating or abusive behavior during a match will result in a forfeit loss.
2. It is strictly forbidden to use accounts of other users. Such cases will always be considered qid abuse. This does not apply to players who are forced to shared GUID's.
3. It is not allowed to take advantage of or abuse bugs. Any kind of bug abuse is considered cheating and will lead to a forfeit loss.
4. All programs or files, be they changed game files or new files, that change the game or add to its functionality, or that interact with the game in any way, are strictly forbidden. Modified versions of the game's resource files are always forbidden, regardless of what they do. The use of any forbidden program or file by any clan member during a match leads to a forfeit loss at least, and to a removal and ban from ClanBase in bad cases.
5. Programs that do not interact with the game in any way are allowed, even if they can be used and operated simultaneously with the game. Voice communication programs are examples of such programs.
http://www.esl.eu/eu/q3/1on1/ladder/rules/#rule_10
2.2. Game Modifications and Changes
In general, all programs which are not part of the original game, including custom-data and modifications, are not allowed in any ESL game. Exceptions will be outlined in each ladder’s own specific rules or below in “2.2.1. Legal programs and configuration modifications”.
2.2.1. Legal programs and configuration modifications
All external voice programs are allowed (e.g. Battlecom, Gamevoice, Teamspeak, Ventrilo etc.). Script changes and changes to the game’s configuration are allowed, unless they are partly or completely forbidden by the game-specific rules.
2.2.2. Illegal programs and configuration modifications
Programs that provide an advantage during game play (e.g. drivers that allow the removing of walls such as ASUS or Wallhack) are forbidden. Any programs that change the game itself are forbidden.
2.2.3. New programs and/or modifications
New programs and/or modifications are forbidden, as long as they are not specifically listed as legal.
2.2.4. Compulsory programs
Additional programs have been developed for some games. These mostly serve the purpose of ensuring fair play. These additional compulsory programs are listed in the game-specific rules.
http://www.thecpl.com/winter2005/main.php?p=rules_quake4#matchrules
9.00 Cheating and Rule Violations
9.00a By registering and participating in the $30,000 Quake 4 Tournament, each participant agrees to be bound by the rules of this document. Breaking any rule listed herein is grounds for tournament disqualification at the discretion of the League Commissioner and the League President.
9.00b Any tampering with computer hardware or software, including but not limited to intentional crashing of software and illegal modification of hardware or software configurations will result in immediate disqualification.
9.00c Any article of clothing in violation of the dress code must be replaced. Failure to replace violating articles of clothing will result in immediate disqualification.
9.00d Any action in violation of the Player and Spectator Conduct rules as witnessed by a Tournament Official, will result in a warning. Once a warning has been issued, the next violation will result in disqualification of the entire team.
9.00e The Tournament Director reserves the right to cancel or modify the tournament rules if fraud, technical failures or any other factor beyond reasonable control, impairs the integrity of the tournament.
9.00f Any protests or disagreements with a tournament ruling must be made directly to the Tournament Director or League Commissioner in a respectful manner at the time of the incident, at which time a final decision will be made. Disputes must be filed before leaving the tournament area or before starting the next half. The Commissioner's decisions are final.
9.00g Multiple disqualifications may result in an extended suspension from CPL tournaments and CPL Events, as decided by the League Commissioner and the League President.
9.00h Any form of cheating, including but not limited to intentional disconnects, ping flooding, server crashing, etc., will result in immediate disqualification of the competitor and/or team.
9.00i A Tournament Official has the right to disqualify and dismiss any registered player from the tournament, at his or her discretion, at any stage of the tournament, for any valid reason, without prior warning to the player.
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Nice quoting l00r...
But I strongly doubt that this has anything to do with the general issue here. AFAIK, Tremulous has nothing to do with clan-base, except maybe for the underlying engine.
Those quotes may help the trem-league to argue their ban of Puma, but besides that it has no meaning here with trem.
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Custom HUDs are as much external as the default ones are, therefore I think it's safe to say they aren't really external as a third party program would be. You can switch between different HUD configurations from within the game.
I'm not saying that using custom binds is cheating. I'm saying that your definition of cheating includes custom binds.
All programs or files, be they changed game files or new files, that change the game or add to its functionality, or that interact with the game in any way, are strictly forbidden.
That either qualifies changed game settings (because they will be saved in autogen.cfg, thus qualifying it as a modified file) as cheating, or custom HUDs as not cheating (you don't have to modify any game "resources").
Script changes and changes to the game’s configuration are allowed, unless they are partly or completely forbidden by the game-specific rules.
That specifically allows custom HUDs.
The quote from the CPL doesn't define cheating.
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I can't believe people are still going on about this. It will only be settled when the next version of Trem comes out which either disables custom HUDs entirely, or adds a crosshair to the alien HUD by default.
I am in favor of alien crosshairs because of the way alien melee works (http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7529#7529). If dretch bites were calculated using extents (ut2k4 terminology, in that link replace the green line with a box), maybe not so much. But Trem uses a simple line trace, making crosshairs much more important.
And only one thing can stop a "hardware crosshair", a tourney official peeking over your shoulder. Or (very) dynamic crosshairs, but I don't think we want to go there. D:
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Yeah, but those same rules would ban TJW servers and backport clients(modifying/adding functionality) as well as any third party communications program(program that provides an advantage during gameplay).
No offence but Clanbase rules are mostly just there to look impressive, most of them you can't actually see being used unless you're at a lanparty.
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Omfg..I love it how Trem forums love to take a topic and stick with it.
Heres my thoughts. How about we actually get a couple TremDevs to come and speak their own minds and thats that. Seriously, in my opinion all it would do is give a person a sense of direction..also..this is a FPS...
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hehe, here at least we can be sure that Evilbalance with it's freaking Punkbuster will not dictate us what is considered a cheat :)
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What if someone modified their hud to paste a huge stylistic X (or other place-holding graphic) across their entire screen.
You could say its just stylizing the existing Hud, or you could say that its a crosshair used to cheat.
If you say its stylistic, then they could use it as a crosshair and not get in trouble.
If you say its a crosshair, then who draws the line between stylistic and crosshair and why not ban custom HUD's in general.
If you say the center of the screen has to be clear, then put a > < instead.
No way to cover all the angles on it if you call the crosshair a cheat.
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I don't know why I'm throwing myself amidst this argument but...
Because you want to test otu the asbestos firesuit you just bought on EBay? :D
1. Modifying the game (externally) to give yourself an advantage (no matter how slim) is cheating.
By your own self-conflicting logic, modifying the autogen.cfg file is cheating. That is, by the very definition, a modification done to the game files externally. If you actually mean modifying the executable or .pk3's is cheating, again, custom HUD's do not modify either of those. They re-arrange existing graphics, nothing more. Custom HUD's cannot, for example, force-enable the human radar effect, despite what you may have heard to the contrary.
Think of it this way: Let's pretend...
Except the crosshair isn't slightly up and left of the center of the screen. This argument is what is known as a 'moving the goalpost' falacy.
1b. Everyone says that in Q3 you were allowed to do this and that, blah, blah, blah. This is NOT Q3. As a side note (slightly off topic), some people are using GUI mods to add in permanent radars for humans.
No, modifying the client-side executable to force the 'helmet radar' on all the time is the same amount of effort, and the same type of cheat, as an aimbot. Modifying the HUD files to add/remove a crosshair, or any other visual decoration, is an ability the Tremulous developers specifically added to the game. They chose to make the HUD able to be modified and customized. They had to make extensive modifications to the stock Q3 codebase to do this, so it took extensive effort on the Tremulous developers part to allow us to customize the HUD.
2. Binds are not cheating. These can be added in game and are used by the UI to set preferences, such as WASD for movement. Most people modify binds externally however this is merely a one-shot time saver as opposed to a cheat because you can enter the exact same information through the console in-game.
So setting r_picmip 7, r_gamma 5, r_mapoverbrightbits 4, r_intensity 0.5, r_vertexlighting, and turning Tremulous into Stun Runner visually so everything stands out like a sore thumb, that's okay with you because it can all be done from the console? You can add map .pk3's, and other files to the Tremulous directory such as "human" and "alien" binds I can execute easier, but somehow typing in "ui_hudFiles ui/custom.cfg" is cheating when anything else I can type into the console is fine? You can't have it both ways.
3. I think everyone knows that aimbots are cheats. Just to be clear, though, aimbots are cheats.
And so are all client-side hacks as well. Modifying files specifically coded to allow the user to modify though, how is that cheating? Really, the Tremulous developers had to do extensive work to allow custom HUDs. They chose to allow them when they re-used the HUD system from Team Arena and updated it to support the Tremulous-specific attributes and items.
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On every bigger League/Tournament World Wide u must play Pure, except from specifically listest modifications.
Thanks for giving a great example that shows handilly that (by default) custom HUDs in Tremulous would be legal under Clanbase rules. The following highlighting is my own.
7. Cheating and abuse
4. All programs or files, be they changed game files or new files, that change the game or add to its functionality, or that interact with the game in any way, are strictly forbidden. Modified versions of the game's resource files are always forbidden, regardless of what they do. The use of any forbidden program or file by any clan member during a match leads to a forfeit loss at least, and to a removal and ban from ClanBase in bad cases.
Seems to ban HUD modifications, doesn't it? Let's skip forward to the 'what is okay by default' section though... 2.2.1 specifically:
http://www.esl.eu/eu/q3/1on1/ladder/rules/#rule_10
2.2.1. Legal programs and configuration modifications
All external voice programs are allowed (e.g. Battlecom, Gamevoice, Teamspeak, Ventrilo etc.). Script changes and changes to the game’s configuration are allowed, unless they are partly or completely forbidden by the game-specific rules.
Please read the highlighted sentence carefully. All script changes and changes to the game's configuration are allowed, unless specifically forbidden in the game-specific rules.
The closest thing to Tremulous is Team Arena, or Weapons Factory, or Quake 3 Fortress. All of the above have massive custom HUD communities. They are some of the few Q3A mods to base their HUD code on the Team Arena HUD code, specifically because it allows for customized HUDs on sv_pure servers. Tremulous chose to allow it as well by design and not by accident.
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Some of you seem to miss the general principle here. It is not important what Clanbase, the Team Fortress community, Timbo, WolfWings or whoever says. I have been playing Quake for quite a while, and ever since the QuakeWorld (clan)wars from 1997, modification of skins and hud was disallowed. I have always stuck to these rules. For me, and I know for some other people, it's not the fact that you use that tiny crosshair what's wrong, it's the fact that some of you feel the need to edit/add art assets to Tremulous, to give you an unfair advantage over others, no matter how small, nobody is going to use a crosshair because it's not helping one bit. If you give these 'cheaters' one finger, they will soon demand your entire hand.
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No, because they use the crosshair in this case as a learning tool , no serious player uses it because by then it gives no advantage.
Besides the point also applies for Quake, which by its default configuration didn't have a crosshair.
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No, because they use the crosshair in this case as a learning tool , no serious player uses it
well I do
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I think we can lock this thread, as we have finally concluded that crosshairs in Trem are not to be considered a cheat :)
A sticky would be nice, so we don't get any more whiners that complain on the percived illegal advantage of a crosshair...
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Seconded for closing and that rasz isn't a serious player :D
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I think we can lock this thread, as we have finally concluded that crosshairs in Trem are not to be considered a cheat :)
A sticky would be nice, so we don't get any more whiners that complain on the percived illegal advantage of a crosshair...
FALSE, WE considered that edding a HUD whit Xhair (for Example: Color or Design) it not a cheat its only a variation. But ad a Xhair to a HUD that have normal no one its an advantage, its an advantage, its an...
Easy question for you, why adv. mara have it and normal mara not?
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I think we can lock this thread
* I wrote this big beautiful reply phpbb failed to post so here is my i'm tired of writing it version:
NO
Locks are for stopping trainwreck attrocity threads, not for ending discussion on reasonable topics that some individual feels has been concluded. If you are no longer interested or think its done, move on. It will die on its own, and doesn't need any help from a lock. If however others are not so done as you, they can simple continue to mock you by posting here and keeping the thread afloat.
BTW.. i fully agree with my post here. Everything I said in my previous post some pages back concluded the thread, you people are simply blind to my wisdom :p
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Easy question for you, why adv. mara have it and normal mara not?
That's because the trem authors though a crosshair wasn't needed for aliens with no ranged attack. But then again, it really helps to have them after all so I see no good reason not to add one to all aliens.
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Easy question for you, why adv. mara have it and normal mara not?
That's because the trem authors though a crosshair wasn't needed for aliens with no ranged attack. But then again, it really helps to have them after all so I see no good reason not to add one to all aliens.
Why the Authors doesnt change it, they have enough time but they dont do it . I think they use it at a part of balancing.
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Easy question for you, why adv. mara have it and normal mara not?
That's because the trem authors though a crosshair wasn't needed for aliens with no ranged attack. But then again, it really helps to have them after all so I see no good reason not to add one to all aliens.
Why the Authors doesnt change it, they have enough time but they dont do it . I think they use it at a part of balancing.
You want to go by what the authors do, and yet you seem blind to the fact that the very same authors added the ability for the users to customize the HUD even on sv_pure servers.
They could have blocked it, like they do with the 'in-game menus' for example, or they could have made it completely impossible to modify the client-side HUD at all, but they specifically designed it to be customized, even on sv_pure servers.
Again, you can't claim "the authors intended X!" when they put obvious, devoted work towards the exact opposite, and you're only thinking they intend X because of a lack of action. Pre-existing work towards a goal speaks much louder than an absence of work towards a conflicting goal.
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Some of you seem to miss the general principle here. It is not important what Clanbase, the Team Fortress community, Timbo, WolfWings or whoever says. I have been playing Quake for quite a while, and ever since the QuakeWorld (clan)wars from 1997, modification of skins and hud was disallowed. I have always stuck to these rules. For me, and I know for some other people, it's not the fact that you use that tiny crosshair what's wrong, it's the fact that some of you feel the need to edit/add art assets to Tremulous, to give you an unfair advantage over others, no matter how small, nobody is going to use a crosshair because it's not helping one bit. If you give these 'cheaters' one finger, they will soon demand your entire hand.
And yet... Timbo's word is what really matters. He's the one that's programmed Tremulous. What if he, or other Devs, come out and specifically say that custom HUDs are not cheating? :-)
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Why the Authors doesnt change it, they have enough time but they dont do it . I think they use it at a part of balancing.
Duh! It's because the next version isn't out yet of course.
Or maybe you think that such a minor ( but useful ) feature should have prompted the authors to stop everything and release a new version that everybody would have to download, that the servers would have to patch, only to do something that can already be done easily with a simple clientside mod and which works perfectly even on sv_pure servers?
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I suppose I should mention that, perhaps contrary to my statements above, I don't consider customizing your HUD to be cheating -- as long as you aren't customizing such that you are giving yourself information that you wouldn't otherwise have with the default arrangement.
1. Modifying the game (externally) to give yourself an advantage (no matter how slim) is cheating.
By your own self-conflicting logic, modifying the autogen.cfg file is cheating... etc.
I suppose I should have clarified that statement further: I meant any modifications made externally that cannot be made internal to the game (in our case, console commands). Autogen.cfg can be modified fully in-game (AFAIK).
Custom HUD's cannot, for example, force-enable the human radar effect, despite what you may have heard to the contrary.
No, modifying the client-side executable to force the 'helmet radar' on all the time is the same amount of effort, and the same type of cheat, as an aimbot.
Admittedly, I was unaware of the required changes that needed to be made to make this change happen. However, since the executable requires changing, does that mean that sv_pure=1 servers wouldn't allow radar cheaters to connect? (Purely a question, I really don't know.)
Think of it this way: Let's pretend...
Except the crosshair isn't slightly up and left of the center of the screen. This argument is what is known as a 'moving the goalpost' falacy.
What I was getting at here was that to someone who has, for example, never played an FPS before would find it just as difficult to accurately use the centre of the screen without a crosshair as a seasoned gamer would if the target area were not the centre. I also think your interpretation of the "Moving goalpost" fallacy is a bit too literal. That fallacy refers to using the argument that "my way is right because you can't provide enough evidence to prove that your way is right," e.g., religious arguments.
Modifying the HUD files to add/remove a crosshair, or any other visual decoration, is an ability the Tremulous developers specifically added to the game. They chose to make the HUD able to be modified and customized.
The point here is not that the HUD is allowed to be customized, because you're right, it is, but whether or not adding a crosshair is cheating. I posit that it is cheating because it gives the player information that he would otherwise technically not have without the addition. Something as practically insignificant as a dot (well, four dots since resolutions are evenly divisible in both dimensions and have no single pixel centre... but splitting hairs aside now) indicating the centre of the screen is still cheating if only because it indicates where your attack is aimed. A dot on the upper right corner is insignificant since it has no meaning in game.
2. Binds are not cheating. These can be added in game and are used by the UI to set preferences, ...
So setting r_picmip 7, r_gamma 5, r_mapoverbrightbits 4, r_intensity 0.5, r_vertexlighting, ...
I'm not as well versed when it comes to the specifics of the Q3 engine but it seems to me that if you want everything to be bright that's ok. Trem was not built to have dark areas that can conceal stalking aliens and whatnot which is one of the reasons, IIRC, that flashlights have been vetoed.
Finally, the devs have stated (or people have stated on behalf of the devs) that next update we'll have alien crosshairs by default. For now we do not.
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Admittedly, I was unaware of the required changes that needed to be made to make this change happen. However, since the executable requires changing, does that mean that sv_pure=1 servers wouldn't allow radar cheaters to connect? (Purely a question, I really don't know.)
If someone is modifying the client-side executable, they will likely bypass the sv_pure check entirely as well unfortunately. So if they are to the point of hacking the executable, all bets are off on detecting with the standard sv_pure techniques. But all claims of "I'm not cheating!" are completely out the window as well, they're full-on cheating to the level of aimbots at that point.
Modifying the HUD files to add/remove a crosshair, or any other visual decoration, is an ability the Tremulous developers specifically added to the game. They chose to make the HUD able to be modified and customized.
The point here is not that the HUD is allowed to be customized, because you're right, it is, but whether or not adding a crosshair is cheating. I posit that it is cheating because it gives the player information that he would otherwise technically not have without the addition. Something as practically insignificant as a dot (well, four dots since resolutions are evenly divisible in both dimensions and have no single pixel centre... but splitting hairs aside now) indicating the centre of the screen is still cheating if only because it indicates where your attack is aimed. A dot on the upper right corner is insignificant since it has no meaning in game.
And yet... what is the difference between customizing the HUD to move the health and ammo markers up to the the center of the screen instead of the edges, and placing a static crosshair in the middle of the screen? Is one cheating but the other one okay because it's only moving existing elements around?
Again, you're trying to create an synthetic difference where there is no way to seperate 'custom HUDs' from 'static artwork added on the screen for aliens' because that is, by definition, also a custom HUD.
Finally, the devs have stated (or people have stated on behalf of the devs) that next update we'll have alien crosshairs by default. For now we do not.
All the more reason to add them now since we can. How is that any different than using TJW's "svn backport" client that includes HTTP downloads, or playing on svn servers that include bugfixes before the next full release?
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Im just sitting back and watching the quote wars lol.
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Yeah, pass the popcorn we're approaching the act 2 fight scene.
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And yet... what is the difference between customizing the HUD to move the health and ammo markers up to the the center of the screen instead of the edges, and placing a static crosshair in the middle of the screen? Is one cheating but the other one okay because it's only moving existing elements around?
Again, you're trying to create an synthetic difference where there is no way to seperate 'custom HUDs' from 'static artwork added on the screen for aliens' because that is, by definition, also a custom HUD.
Why its no way to separate it? i know! it kicks out your argumentation but its really easy, you can change color and design but dont ad a new ability.
btw. What the same between J.W. Bush & the Weapons Of Mass Destruction at Irac, Creationism & intelligent Design and your answer. Anybody knows it? :)
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Modifying the HUD files to add/remove a crosshair, or any other visual decoration, is an ability the Tremulous developers specifically added to the game. They chose to make the HUD able to be modified and customized.
The point here is not that the HUD is allowed to be customized, because you're right, it is, but whether or not adding a crosshair is cheating. I posit that it is cheating because it gives the player information that he would otherwise technically not have without the addition. Something as practically insignificant as a dot (well, four dots since resolutions are evenly divisible in both dimensions and have no single pixel centre... but splitting hairs aside now) indicating the centre of the screen is still cheating if only because it indicates where your attack is aimed. A dot on the upper right corner is insignificant since it has no meaning in game.
And yet... what is the difference between customizing the HUD to move the health and ammo markers up to the the center of the screen instead of the edges, and placing a static crosshair in the middle of the screen? Is one cheating but the other one okay because it's only moving existing elements around?
True enough. If you use a custom gui to shrink the physical size of the box surrounding the middle of the screen you will be gaining a sort of advantage. If someone is using a 2" screen, arguably they'll have an easier time locating the centre. I can't think of a way to argue this without it leading to absolute absurdity (assuming we haven't reached that point yet? ;))! What's the minimum number of pixels required to be enclosed by such graphics!
All the more reason to add them now since we can. How is that any different than using TJW's "svn backport" client that includes HTTP downloads, or playing on svn servers that include bugfixes before the next full release?
Neither of those things give one player an advantage over the other?
Custom GUIs aside, can we at least agree that all other things being equal, given two people never having played an FPS before, the one with the crosshair would best the other?
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Custom GUIs aside, can we at least agree that all other things being equal, given two people never having played an FPS before, the one with the crosshair would best the other?
I'll agree that the player who downloaded a new custum GUI would best one without if you agree that the player who downloaded a custom autoexec.cfg with lot's of useful binds would best one who only uses the standard binds you can get with the menu.
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I'll agree that the player who downloaded a new custum GUI would best one without if you agree that the player who downloaded a custom autoexec.cfg with lot's of useful binds would best one who only uses the standard binds you can get with the menu.
Custom HUDs (crosshairs) help new players ONLY. Binds/Scripts (.cfg's) help EVERYONE.
I sped around the winding coridor (With extreme fluidity thanks to my newly installed hardware crosshair) reluctant to blink as not to miss a stray human on my radar. I swiftly react to the oncoming blue sphere, and wallwalk in a completely unpredictable fasion. I find my foe, and realise his Las-gun wielding competence, I retreat, the previous courner should be sufficient. I chuckle to myself as this lone human follows what he believes to be a badly wounded dretch, little does he know, I'm FAR from deaths grasp, to the contrary, it's all a sly gambit on my part. Out of harms way, I proceed to navigate the "q" (evolve) menu, "here he comes, chasing a weak dretch, He'll be mighty surprised to find a Full-Health Dragoon waiting for him..." before I have time to do ANYTHING on the ingame evolve menu, I'm as dead as a... Noob with no binds.
Well, It's only fair, my ability to find the center of my screen (Create a server, join as human, stick tape between the crosshair) is far more advantagous, cheating some might say, than having my full-health dretch evolve to Dragoon with a single button...????
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However, since the executable requires changing, does that mean that sv_pure=1 servers wouldn't allow radar cheaters to connect?
The incorrect answer was implied in the response to this. Pure servers don't care what binary you use, just what pk3s you use. (Keep in mind that data in a pk3 can be overridden pretty easily with different information not in a pk3.)
I posit that it is cheating because it gives the player information that he would otherwise technically not have without the addition.
The center of your screen is a physical location, not a piece of information within the game. Furthermore, it is already present in the game for some classes.
it kicks out your argumentation but its really easy, you can change color and design but dont ad a new ability.
Adding a new ability isn't even possible with a custom HUD unless you consider being more comfortable with the location of your ammo indicator to be a new ability.
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Adding a new ability isn't even possible with a custom HUD unless you consider being more comfortable with the location of your ammo indicator to be a new ability.
Ok, now for childrens :roll:
My new Car comes whit Radar, IR and a HUD but this one has not the ability to track enemys, if i fly a F16 the HUD, Radar and IR works at the same physik but this one has the ability to track an enemy, so i hope kid you can understand me now :)
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Yeah, pass the popcorn we're approaching the act 2 fight scene.
*Passes popcorn*
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(http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~adamkiew/tuned_de_tp/personal%20page/Blasted/15_10_2006.jpg)
Props to Mietz.
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Custom GUIs aside, can we at least agree that all other things being equal, given two people never having played an FPS before, the one with the crosshair would best the other?
I'll agree that the player who downloaded a new custum GUI would best one without if you agree that the player who downloaded a custom autoexec.cfg with lot's of useful binds would best one who only uses the standard binds you can get with the menu.
I've already agreed to this. Let me ask you this: can the person without the added crosshair add one without leaving the game? Can the person without the binds add them without leaving the game?
Which one is a cheat, then?
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Props to Mietz.
So is that a challenge to the whole seriousness of the point of this thread? Are you insinuating that a little dot in the middle of a screen does not make people l33t?
That players who can find the middle of their screen because they play are in some way no better than those who just start out and have never played any game with anything in the center of their screen where they can use as a point of reference and adjustment for tremulous?
That the dot does not mean you can actually manage to aim the center of your screen any better at the thing you want to bite?
ARE YOU SAYING, SIR.. THAT THE MOOSE HAS NO HORNS!.. antlers whatever a moose has...
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Popcord for all :D :D
[randomness]
Skill = :dretch: -> :turret:
:dretch: = teh winnar
[/randomness]
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Let me ask you this: can the person without the added crosshair add one without leaving the game?
yes
Can the person without the binds add them without leaving the game?
yes
Which one is a cheat, then?
neither one
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Ho boy, this thread is hilarious! I was wondering why Lava was trolling me the other day in the mapping forum, and now I know.
I never came back to this thread after posting the HUD file, but after reading it, I have to laugh that it seems to have put such a tremendous bug up a few people's asses. :D Seriously, IT'S A DOT, get over it chaps.
Anyway, it's good to see my HUD is still getting some use. Other than mine and Wolfwing's, are there any other cool HUDs floating around now?
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Some people really got a huge stick up their ass because of the HUD's.
There is a thread with most of the released custom HUD's, including mine :wink:
http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3087
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here we go again
cheater crosshair users VS normal cool players
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Ho NOES! Hax aimb0tz, non implemented rad0r! ESP! Crouch bot! NADE rad0r cr0zzH41r! Noes noes noes!!!
For all the SatGnu Admins:
http://www.pwned.nl/
;)
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yo ping_pong.
Just try to look like who jokes.
Game Over. Go burn in hell.
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lol, advanced goons have crosshairs ;p and few others too no? x/
why do u need a crosshair? CANT U JUST SEE WHAT THE MIDDLE OF UR SCREEN IS?
k no crosshair for humans would be lame and annoying, but aliens dont rlly need it x/
@DJ_Pong: pwned.nl doesnt work and the meta tags are wrong lol
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<troll>
lucy spammers don't need crosshair either
</troll>
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i wanna be a crosshair!
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there is only one truth about modified huds and croshairs:
(http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~adamkiew/tuned_de_tp/personal%20page/Blasted/15_10_2006.jpg)
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I think i have seen this comic post before..if i just knew where.....
btw, nice comics, good humor.
But really, crosshair, no crosshair, it's kinda ridiculous that this is an issue. From what i gather from the posts, thinking that alien crosshair is a cheat or not is just an opinion of the posters, nobody else seems to care. No facts.
In most other games, modifying code or inducing artifical lag is a cheat, playing with client configuration a must.
If you have a server and you want to dissalow players with a certain configuration, so be it. But thats just server local policy, and should stay server local policy.
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yo ping_pong.
Just try to look like who jokes.
Game Over. Go burn in hell.
Your posts are really high level for your age ;)
Oh and eeuh, nice Screenshot in your Sig
:P It's called; Owned by Moderator.
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Oh and eeuh, nice Screenshot in your Sig
It's called; Owned by Moderator.
Ye i got owned by the MODERATOR
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1143/csubakkanq5.jpg)
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I guess you guys will have to ban everyone who uses advanced goon/mara then huh? idiots as usual.
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Oh and eeuh, nice Screenshot in your Sig
It's called; Owned by Moderator.
Ye i got owned by the MODERATOR
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1143/csubakkanq5.jpg)
You just got owned, pong.
Cheat for life, cheat to win huh? "Pong style"
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Solo, Puma, are you really in [F]lame?
If so, how do your mates stand having some no-brainer round?
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Alien crosshairs will leave the realm of cheats the moment they are part of a stock Tremulous release, which will probably be the 1.2 release.
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Okay, I agree with Lava that they are a hack, but not that they are a cheat.
They are a pretty crappy hack. If you use a HUD with alien crosshairs, you can't turn them off with cg_drawCrosshair like you should be able to.
If aliens get crosshairs in some future version of Tremulous, I am certain you will be able to disable them.
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(http://www.evilbastard.org/slight/trem-leetproof-small.jpg) (http://www.evilbastard.org/slight/trem-leetproof.jpg)
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Solo, Puma, are you really in [F]lame?
If so, how do your mates stand having some no-brainer round?
I remember for your last actions:
1-> u and pong was playing with the !kick puma command(with a "reason" of course).
2-> Puma: "noob builder"(warning for admins) Caveman-> !mute puma and
!ban in the end.
U are a big looser man. Go spec players from console and pm em with your "sarcasm" "script" "cheater" messages. lame,blind,abuser.
+im banned from a server where i never played. heh.
Global ban pls!!!
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Solo, Puma, are you really in [F]lame?
If so, how do your mates stand having some no-brainer round?
I remember for your last actions:
1-> u and pong was playing with the !kick puma command(with a "reason" of course).
2-> Puma: "noob builder"(warning for admins) Caveman-> !mute puma and
!ban in the end.
U are a big looser man. Go spec players from console and pm em with your "sarcasm" "script" "cheater" messages. lame,blind,abuser.
+im banned from a server where i never played. heh.
Global ban pls!!!
a) If you never played at AW, we could not have banned you, right?
b) "noob builder" was a statement you made to your teammate with lvl3 in order to get the builder kicked. You were Spec at that time and had a history of getting banned from AW because you tried to police the server.
c) The kick you refer to was issued after your harrasment went to TK-on-purpose. And we stood behind that kick. After you rejoined you did the same TK-on-pupose which inturn lead to another !ban
So before you open your pie-hole, please use at least Brain-v0.5
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Good A players don't need a crosshair anyway, but IMO not having a crosshair for the A team (- Adv Goon / Mara) is one of the reasons that A win more often statistically -- all good players go A.
So make it a legal part of the official game, turn it off by default, put an option in the Graphics menu or wherever.
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You just got owned, pong.
Cheat for life, cheat to win huh? "Pong style"
;) Max Hax.
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It's a common rule that for all Teamwarfare.com games that a HUD modification is not considered cheating. The reason for this is because once you begin saying certain HUD modifications are illegal, you ban them all and everyone's game has to look the same with specific settings. Some people, such as myself, have poor edge detection in the dark which is why I always have to max out the gamma in the games I play. Some people would consider my increasing my gamma to that level cheating however if it weren't for that modification, I wouldn't play trem.
In reality, it should be standard on everyone's install; tis pointless not to do it.
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I don't use any crosshair, it s useless, my aim is better without, in alien and in humans.
And i dont think i'm so noob at trem ^^
The proof that crosshair are useless ...
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Solo, Puma, are you really in [F]lame?
If so, how do your mates stand having some no-brainer round?
No, i'm not in flame im in YK@.
Lets try not to forget how 1337 cave man is..
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1186f7c928.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Ofcourse you wouldn't need a brain, you only need your pretty flowers :)
Edit: oh yeah and you might need lvl 5 admin to fight that tyrant, just incase you run out of ammo... !ban tyrant breathed wrongly.
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So before you open your pie-hole, please use at least Brain-v0.5
You think your funny, right?
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"]The proof that crosshair are useless ...
Not useless, it just proves that some people are good without them, most (or at least a lot) are better with them.
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....
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a) If you never played at AW, we could not have banned you, right?
FANTASTIC,amazing joke.
b) "noob builder" was a statement you made to your teammate with lvl3 in order to get the builder kicked. You were Spec at that time and had a history of getting banned from AW because you tried to police the server.
U cant explayin away this. Shame on you!
c) The kick you refer to was issued after your harrasment went to TK-on-purpose. And we stood behind that kick. After you rejoined you did the same TK-on-pupose which inturn lead to another !ban
now im sad, i deleted my 5 gigabyte of demos. pff
Why u need to lie? Doesnt matter , u are the admin u can do everything what u want to. U can spec 2-3 h a playa(from console) and u can send idiot pms.
as i have heard....LAME
So before you open your pie-hole, please use at least Brain-v0.5
Only u have brain in this world. My 50 year old friend.
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I don't need to lie, I have to prove nothing .)
And nearly all know that _I_ don't bring out the dirty laundry until someone involved speaks out first.
It is too bad that the post where we talked about your ban on AW got so conviently deleted / moved from your forum @ flame.dyndns.org
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im not moderator there...
today u was very slow...practice with !ban...
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I find that because of the irregular view heights, I often find myself looking too far up as small aliens or too far down as large aliens.
Adv. Mara and Adv. Goon, I happen to have the most consistent view heights.
Coincidence?
I think not.
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I don't need to lie, I have to prove nothing .)
And nearly all know that _I_ don't bring out the dirty laundry until someone involved speaks out first.
It is too bad that the post where we talked about your ban on AW got so conviently deleted / moved from your forum @ flame.dyndns.org
Once again you immaturly resurrect the past to try to stirr up some shit.
Fuck off caveman, when you die ima shit on your grave and ask if it smells good.
Go get a shave, mouthwash and a job application and stop making things personal when it gets out of your depth you dick head.
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Face it dude, the truth is hard. You don't need to fall back on insults like a preteen that has no other vocabulary than the fecal one gathered from the gutters.
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Face it dude, the truth is hard. You don't need to fall back on insults like a preteen that has no other vocabulary than the fecal one gathered from the gutters.
Congradulations, you just publicly embarresed yourself by INSULTING me for INSULTING. rofl
Edit: you were the first one to insult, i was retaliating.
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Enouth with that :evil:
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Face it dude, the truth is hard. You don't need to fall back on insults like a preteen that has no other vocabulary than the fecal one gathered from the gutters.
Congradulations, you just publicly embarresed yourself by INSULTING me for INSULTING. rofl
Edit: you were the first one to insult, i was retaliating.
You started; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you;
FISH
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Face it dude, the truth is hard. You don't need to fall back on insults like a preteen that has no other vocabulary than the fecal one gathered from the gutters.
Congradulations, you just publicly embarresed yourself by INSULTING me for INSULTING. rofl
Edit: you were the first one to insult, i was retaliating.
You started; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you; no you;
FISH
:S :P :) :D XD
I find that because of the irregular view heights, I often find myself looking too far up as small aliens or too far down as large aliens.
Adv. Mara and Adv. Goon, I happen to have the most consistent view heights.
Coincidence?
I think not.
yeah that's same as me... but I don't use it... yet...
who necromanced this thread? Or was this keep being posted from the beginning :S
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b) "noob builder" was a statement you made to your teammate with lvl3 in order to get the builder kicked. You were Spec at that time and had a history of getting banned from AW because you tried to police the server.
If he said "noob builder" to his teammate as spec, only specs would see it. And if he had a history of getting banned, why the heck was he able to join the server?
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Hey everybody minus Puma and Solo, let's agree on something for a change.
Something like; Puma and Solo are retards, ignore their rambling.
Agreed?
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I agree.
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+2
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Hey everybody minus Puma and Solo, let's agree on something for a change.
Something like; Puma and Solo are retards, ignore their rambling.
Agreed?
Fucking ass! :P I agree with you this time.
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Agreed.
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Lava-> biggest idiot we/i know
Pong-> cheater
Go rapha go!
yea, and register some account to spam here pls.
My fav image:
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0165si8.jpg
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Pity this forum doesn't have Ignore, so you didn't have to read all the immature crap.
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I half-way agree with Lava
I don't really think Puma isn't that a retard...
but Solo is a big fat freaking asshole retard.
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but Solo is a big fat freaking asshole retard.
seconded
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Hey everybody minus Puma and Solo, let's agree on something for a change.
Something like; Puma and Solo are retards, ignore their rambling.
Agreed?
/sign
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If I may add my 5cents, I am undecided about the alien crosshairs on the HUD. It appears to me that it is an advantage but it can be achieved in a hardware style, however cumbersome that may be.
I think a greater issue is where there is REAL advantages gained eg, the addition of a radar either more advanced or at an earlier stage than is normal. To me THIS is a REAL cheat.
Currently I am a GameOp on the GameArena servers and if i kick or ban someone there is a burden of proof put on me to ensure that people are cheating or behaving in a way against the Code Of Conduct. If someone is cheating by being able to predict the exact location of the enemy when they are not suppose to know IS cheating. Having the computer do the aiming and firing for you IS cheating. Knowing where to aim using the mouse, well that's practice and skill, and having a dot on the screen in my oppinion is an aide. Saying this though it seems that it wasn't intended for aliens in Trem 1.1 so maybe that is additional information that shouldn't be added into the HUD.
As a GameOp at the present it is impossible to tell if someone is using a HUD with crosshairs since it's a client side modification. Even if someone says that they have them isn't proof that they have crosshairs, only that they claim it. Can you kick/ban them for it... maybe but the burden of proof is slim.
I would like to have alien crosshairs, sure, but I won't until the default has them. I would like them because I'm use to them, but I won't change my UI to one that has them as alien because there is a certain amount of discention on whether it is or isn't a cheat. Because of this discension I will CHOOSE not to because 1) I want to set an example and 2) be seen as not cheating by those who think it is and therefore be above reproach.
Will I change my HUD? Maybe, if there are HUDs that show no more than what the default has.
Do I think others should change thier HUD? Well if you're bothered with it or want a change SURE.
It's really up to the people who write new HUD configurations, will you people follow the intent of Trem 1.1 in your HUDs? Will you let people cheat by giving them information that isn't seen in the default UI?
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Its not a cheat according to EVERY Dev and tjw. Thanks. I do believe i went over this in a tremleague thread.
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Its not a cheat according to EVERY Dev and tjw. Thanks. I do believe i went over this in a tremleague thread.
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Too bad you don't speak for either TremDev or tjw, and even more so, you failed with your double post.
Apart from that, neither TremDev nor tjw make up the rules for servers they do not own. If someone considers it a cheat on their server, it's their own business.
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so when 1.2 comes out and all aliens have crosshairs are you going to make them customize their huds not to have them before they can play on your server? sounds a bit obsessive.
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Lava, somebody just called you obsessive! Be a good boy and say thanks for the compliment.