I can't stand GT

[Ryanw4390]

It comes down to Xenocide's clan word against GT's. >< clan has had, as far as I can tell, less than 5 complaints since the OFFICIAL US1 server has been established. GT... I lost count. Today on the US1 server, we had a GT stax on aliens, and an >< stax on humans. The only exception was one GT member who was on humans team. After moving twice to our new location (thanks to the Xenocide clan building strategies, fully supported by human team by the way), human team was ready to engage aliens in close quarters combat. Unfortunately, a GT member on human team decided it would be best to move the base, without team approval, and without warning. The move was complete before the human majority could object to the building practices of this GT rouge, and before human team knew what was going on, RC was moved and our old base, in a perfect location, and our old base was no longer salvageable.

Before I continue, I have been told by GT members that I was trolling GT. Trolling would indicate I was joking or poking fun at GT. I am doing neither. I am completely, 100% serious about my accusations, and in my view, the future of Tremulous depends on removing this group from any sort of worthwhile positions of power on the US1 server. In the case of GT, there isn't one bad seed spoiling the bunch. On the contrary, there are very few GT members that should be considered respectable community members, and I think its about time some other members of the community stand up to their actions.

On with the story. After moving the base to quite possibly the worst location on the map then quitting the team to join the spectators, this GT member moves to aliens. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with someone switching teams after a terrible base move, since its disheartening, discouraging, and depressing to be a part of a team who committed an act of such stupidity, but in this case, this GT member was the actual person who moved to the terrible location and built the terrible base.

So what am I trying to accomplish with this post? Ideally, the removal of all GT members from positions of power on the US1 server until their "good seeds" can be identified from their large batch of "bad apples". Since that won't happen, I instead want to use this topic as a sort of call to arms, for all members of the tremulous community sick of the antics, actions, and abuses of GT.

I want to conclude by reiterating this is not a troll topic, this is far from it. My 5 years within the Tremulous community speak for itself. I have never trolled, I have never flamed, and I most certainly never picked a fight where one wasn't meant to be picked. I post on these forums, chat on the official IRC, and play the game with the most serious of intentions. I love this game so much, and have played this game too long to let a rouge group within Tremulous to utterly ruin the game I have loved for so long. If action isn't taken, I understand, their position in the Tremulous community has greatly surpassed the point of standard disciplinary action. As I said, what I do ask, is for members of the Tremulous community to use this topic as a sounding board. Hopefully we are noticed, probably not, but at least I can tell my kids that I tried to salvage the best online FPS/RTS that ever existed.

EDIT:

I encourage GT members to come forward with any sort of proof in the form of screenshots that would contradict anything I've said.

[1337-Kynes]

The human base lasted well into SD, looked to me like Heli quit humans because you guys were bothering him, then a few minutes later he joined aliens. Also, I think considering clans/clams at all in official server issues is probably a terrible idea. Maybe Heli built a bad base, I wouldn't know because I wasn't on humans, so you think every GT admin should be removed? None of the admins used their privileges during this game (or at least not for anything I remember).

[Moose]

I completely 100% agree with Ryan, and I can account for this actually happening. I'm not speaking out as a clan-mate, but as an player in the Tremulous community.

[Supertanker]

-- snip --

I encourage GT members to come forward with any sort of proof in the form of screenshots that would contradict anything I've said.

And where, my dear fellow, is your proof? Post demos, please. Full demos and screenshots and server logs, so that context may be provided. Ideally, verified by several parties, both within your clan and without. Your accusations are quite serious, but I see no proof provided by you--only claims.

Also, I was not present at this match, so I cannot speak for either GT or ><. However, I can say this: I joined GT just a few weeks ago. Are you going to lump me in with your batch of "bad apples?" How about the rest of the decent GTs, of which there are many? Are they all "bad apples" too? Are you going to start generalizing about GT members just because they are GT members and not because of any virtues (or lack thereof) each individual has?

I say this as someone who likes to see all sides of an issue. I am a GT member, yes. (One of the newest, I think.) I am also an MG. I am a mapper. I am a Tremulous player. Above all, I am a writer, and as such I seek truth. I have not noticed any sort of behavior that calls for your strongly-worded proclamation from ANY of these viewpoints. Please, give us proof! to support your claims.

[1337-Kynes]

I encourage GT members to come forward with any sort of proof in the form of screenshots that would contradict anything I've said.

Hold up, I feel like I should be innocent until proven guilty, shouldn't you come up with some evidence first? I have thousands of demos of GT members not abusing, and you have one accusation of building a bad base.

I am taken aback by the premise of this, Heli builds a base that you don't like (I'm pretty sure Heli thought this was a fine base), so every other admin with a GT tag should be removed.

[Ryanw4390]

My proof is in the base move, the proof of the base move is coming in the form of first hand accounts and condumps. I didn't think I would need to post screenshots of what a good vs. terrible base looks like. Just close your eyes, imagine the worst base you've ever seen, and that was the base this GT member built.

Ideally, this single GT member would be the one who was disciplined, but since GT is so firmly entrenched on the US1 server, I am calling for an entire removal of GT members from admin positions. Thinking about it for a moment, the fairest action would be an entire wipe of all US1 admins so the abusers can be removed forever, and the fair admins can remain in place. I may have been wrong in attacking the entirety of GT, but what I do know is that once you are part of a group within an online community, you back up your own regardless of the proof, witnesses, and allegations against that said member.

I would like to think that you understand where I am coming from Supertanker, being a long time member of this great community, but since I am attacking "one of your own", I can understand your misgivings.

[1337-Kynes]

Whether or not you like Heli's base is not an issue. That has nothing to do with admin privileges. I see no evidence that Heli intentionally built a bad baes, and who could blame him for leaving the team after you kept attacking him? In my experience, Heli has been a responsible admin, and although this is irrelevant, a good builder.   

[Supertanker]

My proof is in the base move, the proof of the base move is coming in the form of first hand accounts and condumps. I didn't think I would need to post screenshots of what a good vs. terrible base looks like. Just close your eyes, imagine the worst base you've ever seen, and that was the base this GT member built.

Ideally, this single GT member would be the one who was disciplined, but since GT is so firmly entrenched on the US1 server, I am calling for an entire removal of GT members from admin positions. Thinking about it for a moment, the fairest action would be an entire wipe of all US1 admins so the abusers can be removed forever, and the fair admins can remain in place. I may have been wrong in attacking the entirety of GT, but what I do know is that once you are part of a group within an online community, you back up your own regardless of the proof, witnesses, and allegations against that said member.

I would like to think that you understand where I am coming from Supertanker, being a long time member of this great community, but since I am attacking "one of your own", I can understand your misgivings.

I am...very saddened to hear this. Please tell me that what I am hearing is wrong: that I am so loyal that I would stay with my friends to the death despite logical, unbiased proof. I am hearing that I am incapable of seeing proof and changing my perceptions accordingly.

As you say, I have been a long time member of this community. As a result, I have been around long enough to know that fanatic loyalty can be far more harmful than good.

Give us this proof. Give us these screenshots, these condumps. Allow us to decide, rather than assuming that we will automatically pledge our allegiance to our respective groups.

I'm a builder, but I have trouble discerning good and bad bases; a lot of bases I swore wouldn't work turned out to be incredibly powerful, and likewise, all the bases I build that tend to be good have a 30% chance of being...less than stellar. Show us.

The purest form of proof is a demo, because I think they're difficult to forge or post out of context, and hopefully several people can post demos of the incident from various viewpoints.

It would be in everyone's best interest, >< and GT and non-clan, to post as many demos as possible. Let us see what happened.

Let us decide. Let this great community decide.

I will add, as a footnote, that a single shoddy base move does not constitute any sort of repeat offense. Goodness knows I've had my share of failed bases. Moving the Overmind too close to the egg while building a bedroom base in Spacetracks comes to mind. So do a few moves I botched because I didn't get my teammates' permission or assistance. It happens. To all of us.

[Mirage]

Hello everyone. I am {NoS}Mirage also known as Name and Panda. I was present in this game and also lurking on the Xenocide/Pk Team Speak when these events went down. I took the effort and con dumped the whole match. I have edited out much of the log because but I still kept the dialogue as well as other important events. I witnessed both the human base in its glory as well as assisted in the destruction of the base constructed by DSPro|GT-Heli. What happened was rather disgusting and I am sad that an admin would conduct such behavior. However I do not feel that the actions of a single member warrant the removal of admin for the whole clan. However it is necessary in my opinion for changes to be made to the admin. In fact just yesterday I was putteamed and later kicked from US1 for not using either a granger or a blaster. It was a public game but {013}OnionOfDoom Decided it would be acceptable to abuse his admin to control the course of the game.

Below is the edited version of the Condump. I have highlighted events that I believe are important to note but included all of the dialog to prove authenticity.

DSPro|GT-Heli^+ connected
><|Britney Spears  entered the game
><|k-areef entered the game
><|Taylor Swift    entered the game
><|k-areef joined the humans
Meee[[official] entered the game
><|yardsales entered the game
GT-kharnov entered the game
GT-Longshot'eh entered the game
GuineaPig entered the game
GT-Kynes: :_:
Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh entered the game
><|Exclamation entered the game
Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh joined the aliens
><|yardsales joined the humans
DSPro|GT-Heli^+ entered the game
Bas joined the aliens
><|Taylor Swift    joined the humans
ETF_Sir|Shiz: is it still considered stacking if you have lost more than
won?
GT-Longshot'eh joined the aliens
><|Exclamation joined the humans
Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh was machinegunned by ><|yardsales
><|Britney Spears  joined the humans
><|Taylor Swift    was bitten by Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh
><|Exclamation was bitten by GT-Longshot'eh
GT-Longshot'eh was machinegunned by ><|Britney Spears
GT-kharnov joined the aliens
><|Taylor Swift    was bitten by Renegade
><|Ryanw4390+CATS entered the game
HIS OWN M0M  joined the aliens
Meee[[official]: is it GT vs ><
[A] GT-kharnov: no
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: no
[A] GT-Kynes: no
Meee[[official]: can i join?
[A] GT-kharnov: no
Meee[[official]: ok
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : gt is afraid
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: we are tired of winning
Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh was machinegunned by ><|yardsales
[A] GT-Kynes: GT always wins
[A] GT-kharnov: it's too late for me
><|yardsales was bitten by HIS OWN M0M
[A] GT-kharnov: i have class in the morning
[A] GT-Kynes: no kharnov!
[A] GT-Kynes: It is never too late
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: its too late for your penis
GT-kharnov was machinegunned by Fodder
[A] GT-Kynes: what
[A] GT-kharnov: whart
[H] GuineaPig: lol
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: the golden rule is respect the cock tame the pussy
><|Ryanw4390+CATS joined the humans
[A] GT-Kynes: remember the comment about the drugs and the desert you made?
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: next time respect your cock bro
[A] GT-Kynes: months ago?
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: that was your last lucid moment
[A] GT-Kynes: btw i laughed for a good 20 minutes after that
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i know a desert and i can get you drugs
[A] GT-Kynes: yes
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: have you read Dune?
[A] GT-kharnov: i hope he has
[A] GT-Kynes: I dion't think so
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: yes
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: havn't gotten around to that one saw the movie
though
[A] d4t4232: lol
[A] GT-Kynes: I still haven't seen the movie
[A] GT-kharnov: you must
[A] GT-Kynes: but i have read the series
[A] d4t4232: you bastards! I died
[A] GT-Kynes: several times
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i hear the book is wwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy better
[A] GT-Kynes: many several times
[A] GT-kharnov: the guy playing paul is fantastic
[A] GT-Kynes: wtf is this delta pareseasdf
ETF_Sir|Shiz: the Dune movie was SOOOOO boring
[A] GT-kharnov: what
[A] GT-kharnov: i bet you haven't even read dune
[A] GT-Kynes: you break my heart
[H] ><|Britney Spears : is th ebook good
ETF_Sir|Shiz: kharnov i didnt say anything about the books
ETF_Sir|Shiz: im sure the books are better
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: Dune is great - it features giant sand grangers that
make the firm flow
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-kharnov: the spice is the granger! the granger is the spice!
[A] GT-Kynes: what a granger
DSPro|GT-Heli^+:  The Firm must flow!  - Dune
{MV}Monkey: its gt vs ><??
[A] GT-Kynes: no
[A] GT-kharnov: for fucks sake NO
[A] GT-kharnov: for the whateverth time
[A] GT-Kynes: US1 IS NOT FOR SCRM
GT-Longshot'eh was gunned down by Fodder
[A] GT-Kynes: wooo
[A] GT-Kynes: unless i am winning
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: the water of change sounds like this cactus tea i
[H] GuineaPig: loooool
{NoS}Name: GT v ><
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: WARNING - TK NOT ALLOWED
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: INTENTIONAL TK NOT OK
{NoS}Name: heli join aliens
:Insanity^eh: is uh
:Insanity^eh: itamar here?
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: what if its funny intentional?
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: funy is lol
[A] GT-kharnov: itamar is never here
DSPro|GT-Heli^+ joined the humans
(:Insanity^eh): itamar?
{NoS}Name: heli aliens
[H] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: ?
{NoS}Name: Join the GT guys
[H] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: nah
{NoS}Name: do it
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: wtf
[A] GT-Kynes: honorable helik
[A] GT-Kynes: will not teamstack
[A] GT-Kynes: jk
[A] GT-kharnov: 2 is the smaller one
[A] GT-Kynes: stands for asexual
[A] (d4t4232) (Lower Storage Hallway): ah ok
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): nade
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: gtfo NOS(For Joining Aliens)
[A] GT-Kynes: any party is a gt party
[A] GT-Kynes: no
[A] GT-kharnov: GT-FO
[A] :Insanity^eh: hay longshot
[A] GT-kharnov: why bas
[A] GT-Kynes: NOS is freins
[A] :Insanity^eh: mars hax
[A] d4t4232: fan no make me fly?
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: try harder
[A] d4t4232: lol
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: ohai fellow 'eh'
[A] :Insanity^eh: :]
[A] GT-Kynes: watch me
[A] {NoS}Name: Oh hi NoS mate
[A] {NoS}Name: HI
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: MAGICARP
[A] {NoS}Name: Nice to see you Nale
[A] GT-kharnov: flying is only possible if you stop believing that you're
flying
[A] d4t4232: lol
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: ohai karp
[A] d4t4232: why no fly?
[A] :Insanity^eh: ye
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: kiss me, I'm shitfaced!
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage): i love how supertanker made the pipe supports
non-solid
[A] (GT-kharnov) (Storage): yes
ame: kaotic looks annoyed
[A] GT-kharnov: what
[A] GT-Kynes: lkololol
[A] :Insanity^eh: lawl
ame: heh
[A] d4t4232: stupid fan!
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: lolol
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage): watch me
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage): illl do it
[A] (GT-kharnov) (Storage): why bas
[A] d4t4232: ok i'm there
[A] d4t4232: show me
[A] :Insanity^eh: tehee
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: heli if you wanna join >< just say so
[A] :Insanity^eh: xD
[H] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: ok
[A] d4t4232: I is want to see flying dretch
[A] (GT-Longshot'eh) (Storage): hs3
ame: lol fallen shooting at a leaf
[A] GT-Kynes: GHOSTER KICKMBAN
[A] d4t4232: murder
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: you lags
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: fucking flamer
[A] GT-Kynes: hot
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i hate lagzer
[A] GT-Kynes: GET IT GET IT
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: GT heli ban
ame: un-co-ordinated
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: Onion is no longer friend
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : deconned
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: Onion shoot Pothead
[A] (->|Ranger) (Storage): CARGO BAY!
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: Onion is smelly
[A] :Insanity^eh: woa
[A] (d4t4232) (Air Duct): haha you can't move
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: TRU
[H] ><|Britney Spears : GT
[A] :Insanity^eh: rogue nade on the lose
[H] ><|Britney Spears : RUINS THE GAME
[A] d4t4232: murderer!
[A] GT-Kynes: whooops
[A] (->|Ranger) (Lower Storage Hallway): rc in cargo bay
[A] GT-Kynes: i missed
[H] DSPro|Fallen-: yay
[A] GT-kharnov: GT is what you want, when you need it.
[H] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: lol no
[A] GT-Kynes: ok the spam is cute
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: and a nickle
[A] GT-Kynes: but please
[A] GT-Kynes: stoppit
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] :Insanity^eh: woa
[A] :Insanity^eh: fps death there
ame: PIG
ame: GuineeePigg
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: cute? ill get on my other computer and mass ban the
retards
[A] GT-Kynes: I don't like the sound of that
[A] GT-kharnov: i would highly advise against doing that
[A] {MV}Monkey: xD
[A] GT-Kynes: omg
[A] GT-Kynes: i cant remember the last time i got a basi kill
[A] d4t4232: can tyrant fly over fan?
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: probably
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: kareefs base was so good
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: wtf
DSPro|GT-Heli^+ left the humans
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: lawl
#hotsoup: hello
[A] GT-Kynes: heli's base killled me
ame: hi
[A] :Insanity^eh: just my luck...
DSPro|GT-Heli^+: hi
[A] GT-Kynes: once i get the evos
[A] GT-Kynes: ill do it
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] d4t4232: I have evos watch me fly
DSPro|GT-Heli^+ joined the aliens
[A] GT-Kynes: i'm ready
[A] GT-Kynes: omfg
[A] d4t4232: lol
[A] GT-Kynes: you didnt jump high enough
[A] GT-kharnov: you weren't firm enough
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: it hurts when it gets firmer than that
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: FAK
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Upper Observatory Hall): they moving to default!!
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: didnt know that squished
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] GT-Kynes: trains squish things
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i want a party
[A] GT-kharnov: tiran hueg
[A] :Insanity^eh: OH NOT
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i want a cookie
[A] :Insanity^eh: BRB
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: me me me i i i want want want now! now! now!
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: lol
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Meaningless Pipe Room): i'm goign in the fan
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: aloha
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: heli moved base and switch teams
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: revert
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Meaningless Pipe Room): if they get closer
:Insanity^eh was chaingunned by DSPro|Fallen-
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+:
[A] :Insanity^eh: woa
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: things are sexual
[A] d4t4232: jump in
[A] :Insanity^eh: not cool
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: No I didn't
[A] :Insanity^eh: just got back
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: you did
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : you did
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: get an admin on this
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : we have witnesses
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: dude I was playing humans ... then went to spec
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: you moved to a shit location, later joined other team
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): boost ok
[A] GT-kharnov: yes
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: no
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: i mean this is a rediculously bad spot
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : this spot blows big baby chunks
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: AMG LOL
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: i am being 100% serious
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: well - I told you guys I was moving to cargo
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: read the console ...
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: on this map, where alien base is, this is the worst
location possible
[H] ><|Exclamation: why would you move then switch teams
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: you couldn't have picked a worse spot for this human
base
[A] GT-Kynes: what
[A] GT-Kynes: that base is fine
[A] GT-kharnov: stop trying to troll heli. shut up
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Upper Observatory Hall): i hump grangers
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: I told you guys I had never moved it there but I've seen
it many times
[A] (->|Ranger) (Storage): -node & medi
[A] :Insanity^eh: so
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: i am not trolling
[A] :Insanity^eh: much
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : no one on our team likes this base we liked our last
one
[A] :Insanity^eh: fps
[A] :Insanity^eh: lag
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): lol
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: trolling would indicate i was joking
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : he just moves our pro bsae to this shit one and
changes
[A] GT-Kynes: then fix it
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: i am being dead serious
[A] (->|Ranger) (Storage): arm down!
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Upper Observatory Hall):  AYE AYE CAP'N !!!
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : change it after he feeds you guys tyrants
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Lower Storage Hallway): more like dead wrong
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: I had no intention to change teams.... I was tired that
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): nade
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : you suck man
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: im not blaming you for changing teams heli
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: just sniped you
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage Vent Access): i feel like something like this
happened earlier
[A] :Insanity^eh: sha tay tay
Meee[[official] was bitten by Chimera
[A] :Insanity^eh: shaduup
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: after building this shit base i would change teams too
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage Vent Access): I think I remeber something
[H] ><|yardsales: lol
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : i was talking to ryan
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : sry
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i have large hammer penis like Zues
[A] :Insanity^eh: this is the most ive ever seen on us1 D:
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: i've seen server full
[A] (teks) (Storage): boost?
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): frwd dead
[A] d4t4232: can dragoon fly over fan?
[A] d4t4232: hahahaha
[A] d4t4232: hahaahahahah
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: this is me telling you to suck me penis before it
[A] ({MV}Monkey) (Air Duct): hi
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : brit =[
[H] ><|Britney Spears : =[
[A] ({MV}Monkey) (Air Duct): wth
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: GT will be exposed in a Friday Video
[A] HIS OWN M0M : i didnt know britney was such an outdoorsman
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: ?
[H] ><|Ryanw4390+CATS: you can fuck up your own lives, dont fuck up tremlou
[A] ({MV}Monkey) (Air Duct): d4
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Storage): booost down
[A] (Wayfarer) (Storage): booster please
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: by rebecca b acl!?
[A] GT-Kynes: the naked inner council pics have been out for years
[A] GT-Kynes: nothing new
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Storage): DEFEND!!! WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!!
[A] (Wayfarer) (Storage): booster
[H] GuineaPig: lol
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: - It's not easy being green
[H] ame: a gna win
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): to fix it
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): -1 tesla and -1 dc
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Storage): dretches can use vent boost
[A] {MV}Monkey: NO
[A] (Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh) (Storage): otherwise it will crowd
[H] DSPro|Uzi: ?
[A] {MV}Monkey: uzi!!! ^^
[H] DSPro|Uzi: types /ignore insanity
[H] DSPro|Uzi: hi monkey ^^
[A] (d4t4232) (Storage): i is hiding
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: poop face humans
[A] Hi-MR|Potatohead-gh: you lick my lollies and like it!
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): dont fucking block guys
[H] DSPro|Uzi: can  i try?
[H] DSPro|Uzi: what u wrote
[H] DSPro|Uzi: as per above
[H] :XoDisA^eh,: lol
[H] DSPro|Uzi: yeah
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Hallway to Furnace Room): trust me, it works
[H] DSPro|Uzi: ok
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MARAS MEET ME AT 35 IN BASE FOR RUSH
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MARA RUSH AT 35
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MARA RUSH IN ONE MINUTE - MEETIN BASE
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): Incoming, alternate entrance
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): Incoming, alternate entrance
[H] ><|Britney Spears : Oh
[H] ><|Britney Spears : I was naked
[H] ><|Britney Spears : lol
[H] DSPro|Uzi: naw
[H] DSPro|Uzi: i wana play
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MARA RUSH IN 30 SECONDS - MEET IN BASE
[A] (teks) (Ramp to Storage): rgr
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: FAK
[A] Chimera: lol
[A] (Wayfarer) (Storage): i got there forard
[A] Chimera: THat was hilarios
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: super bad luck
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage Vent Access): RUSH VIA VENTS WITH MARA NOW
[A] (Wayfarer) (Storage): -arm -node -repeater
[A] {MV}Monkey: xD
[H] DSPro|Uzi: l0 thorlock
[H] ImSoHigh: HAR HAR
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Air Duct): gj
[A] (Wayfarer) (Storage): INC
[A] GT-Kynes: what
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MEDI AND ARM DOWN
[A] (HIS OWN M0M ) (Storage): mmm trappers did good
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): MEDI ARM AND TESLA DOWN
[A] GT-Kynes: my hammar was all warmed up
[H] DSPro|Uzi: i died
[A] (DSPro|GT-Heli^+) (Storage): NO MEDI AND NO ARM LEFT - ATTACK AND POISON
[A] (GT-Kynes) (Storage): sorry, did anythin i care about die
[H] :XoDisA^eh,: lol
[H] ><|Britney Spears : Taylor ='[
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: gg
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : lol
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : =[
Aliens win
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : gg
[H] ><|Britney Spears : gg
[A] {NoS}Name: gg
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : gg
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: lol
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : gg brit
[H] ><|Britney Spears : gg taylor
[A] d4t4232: gg
[H] {O13}OnionOfDoom: gg
GT-Kynes disconnected
[H] DSPro|Fallen-: welll
:Insanity^eh: lolol >< stax lost it for humans
[A] ->|Ranger: night guys
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: Guess GT wins vs ><
[H] GuineaPig: gn
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : damn >< stax 2 ppl
[A] (teks): lol to bad I suck at everything but dretch
[H] DSPro|Uzi: haha
[A] (teks): i lvoe dretch
[A] DSPro|GT-Heli^+: >< had like 8
[H] ><|Taylor Swift   : i guess gt's shitty base died fast
[A] GT-Longshot'eh: yours too
[A] HIS OWN M0M : mine lasted

Please remember that I am indeed a third party in this issue and I am not affiliated with Xenocide or GT in any significant way. Thanks for your time.

Sincerely
Panda aka Mirage
Proud Member of NoS

[OnionOfDoom]

In fact just yesterday I was putteamed and later kicked from US1 for not using either a granger or a blaster. It was a public game but {013}OnionOfDoom Decided it would be acceptable to abuse his admin to control the course of the game.

I may have puttteamed you once (I honestly don't remember doing so), but I most definitely did not kick you.

[Supertanker]

Well, here's what I think.

This has nothing to do with GT. This has nothing to do with ><. But this, combined with the Grangers vs Blasters debacle in the other thread, leads me to think this:

US Main has too many admins. This is something I've thought privately for a long, long time--I've always felt that the server can moderate itself with sufficient /callvotes--but it's become a more prevalent thought in the past few days.

I say: purge admin.dat.

Purge everyone. Every single person above level 1 or 2. (What's the difference, by the way?) Purge the whole thing. Assign a very few trusted admins to start keeping a sharp eye for a decently-sized pool of decently-behaved people to admin the server. Make it large enough and diverse enough to where there's not accusations of a monopoly, but keep it small, because the server can and does run itself without admin intervention 95% of the time.
 
Think carefully about who should be admin. As I play, I notice two types of people: there's the old guard, those that haven't become embittered and left, and a good portion of them have both the experience and the aptitude to handle the few situations that crop up. (Silverfox/kevlarman/Lakitu7/Exclamation/tehpaper/superpie come to mind. Yes, I realize most of these are MGs. Do you think it's a coincidence that most of the kind and professional players ended up in MG sometime in the early days of Trem? It isn't a coincidence.)

But as I play, I also notice kind and helpful new players that, with some guidance, would make great admins someday. I'm talking about players like Harbinger of Death, the kind of players who enjoy a good game and don't get riled up over relatively minor things. They don't have the experience--yet--but from these players could be culled a number of decent admins someday.

Just food for thought. To reiterate: this is not GT vs ><. This is not Grangers vs Blasters. This is a simple fact: US1 has too many admins doing too little.

And to make it very clear, because I have a sneaking suspicion that this suggestion will not be popular: these are my thoughts. I don't do this to "support" anyone. I don't take kindly to people saying I'm taking sides or allying myself. These are my individual opinions. If they happen to align with someone else's opinions, that's but coincidence.

Maybe after this, admins will do less admining and will do more playing. Because that's what this game needs: good, kind players.

*sigh* It's late, and I keep forgetting things:

This has nothing to do with Heli either. It's just that I think there are too many admins, and it happens that Heli is one. From what I've seen, he just made a mistake or was fooling around. But I am expanding on the original request for GTs' admin levels to be removed and suggesting that ALL of them be removed, because US1 has far too many. Have I said that enough? No? Well sorry, It's late and I'm tired of typing.

Just to make that clear.

Gaah, I'm not making sense. Read it with a grain of salt and formulate your own opinions.

[Ryanw4390]

I just wanted to post here to retract my previous comments and support Supertanker. This isn't an >< vs GT issue and I should have never made it one.

[Asvarox]

THEY BUILT BAD BASE REPLACING GOOD BASE, DEMOTE THEM ALL NAO

http://www.myfacewhen.com/306/

Seriously thoguh, that pretty much summarizes the first post. That's so nonsense that I can't even find a proper word for it. And the fact that you can't/are unable to provide any serious proofs makes it even worse.

This thread is no better than all those about GT that appeared year (or so) ago or those like "he muted me [5 seconds before map ended], remove his admin". The fact that you put it in nice paragraphs and that you are "5 years member" doesn't change shit.

Now on the issue. You [obviously] made Heli look like some sort of troll, griefer who moved the base to let the aliens win. Correct? Now:
1) How you can prove that? He could as well find your GREAT BASE OMG ineffective and move it to a better, in his opinion, spot. I don't see anything wrong with that (well the fact that, as you said, he didn't warn about it). Personally, as far as I know "this GT member", the second option is more possibile.
2) Even if you somehow prove that he did this on purpose - what you gonna do about it? It was a single game, you will forget about it as soon as this thread goes to page 2. Now if he kept moving rc all around the map until aliens win, demoting him would be more than ok, maybe banning him if he kept doing that for few games (I guess he would be kicked from GT too).

Also, I lol'd at this:

Just close your eyes, imagine the worst base you've ever seen, and that was the base this GT member built.

[Ryanw4390]

This isn't about who is right or wrong or >< vs GT. I am fully supporting Supertanker's previous post, and that's that.

The proof I had was in the form of first hand accounts who made their presence known in IRC. I also had a condump that backed up most of what I said. Again, let me reiterate, however, that this is no longer the issue, and that Supertanker's previous post is the most correct post in this discussion and is the one I will be supporting more than any of the other posts in this topic.

[Asvarox]

You said he built a bad base. That's the matter of opinion (unless he really built a BAD base like RC and 10 nodes, but then it wouldn't last until SD). But don't want to discuss about it anymore as it would be just pointless.

About purging admins:

Why? What is the reason for purging all the admins (leaving a few), probably putting the server in anarchy for a while? Simple "because there are too many" is not enough (aka why you think there are too many). I don't think that we have seen more than 5 or 6 valid admin abuse reports in the entire history in Official Servers. Maybe some of them aren't reported, but also I don't recall any serious abuses while I was on. I guess it's a fair price for keeping the server in control for most of time?

I've always felt that the server can moderate itself with sufficient /callvotes

That could work in theory but certainly doesn't work in practice. Cancelvote is probably the most used command on the server, and percentage of invalid uses of that command is probably similar to other commands. How many times you see top player being callvote kicked by someone from opposite team for aimbotting (and it's actually going to pass!), changemaps in middle of the game, setmap spam until people get so tired to just vote yes so the guy stops, draw votes for no real reason and so on? If a griefer gets callvote kicked, he can in those 30 seconds fuck up the game as his "good bye".

What's funny, I was going to make a thread about US1 having too few admins - at least at mornings (GMT/Euro time). Many times there are no (other) admins playing while, sometimes, even more than 16 players are on. And, unfortunately, some of these guys LOVE to do shit. Not sure what's going on when I'm out, leaving them without any admin.

[Ryanw4390]

Listen man, this isn't about Heli and GT anymore. If you really want to know what happened you can pm me and we can discuss it privately. I don't want the thread to go off topic at this point.

[Lakitu7]

This thread was never on topic. You have a problem with something one person did in one game, and you made it about some imagined nonsense between groups of people that play games together and sometimes against each other for fun. I'll look through logs in the morning about this singular action, and act if warranted.

The only greater issue here is people making a big deal about who is admin and who is not, and all these stupid politics within a community about a video game. Just play the game, or don't, but if you are spending this much energy about grand conflicts of great powers on a game server, please leave and go outside.