Top 10 players

[Conzul]

imho I think tremstats should list "top players" by score per life?  I think that would be a much better representation.

+1

Still doesn't change the facts, and if anything, encourages camp-point-whoring, for people who check, and care about it

Camping for kill ratio is much easier than camping for score. Remember buildings are the cash cow nowadays.

This is true. Alien players especially would benefit from this with the new mara zap. I'm tired of having a lower KDR just because I'm an alien player. Humans always get more kills. By KDR, I'm in 60th place. If we were going by score, I'm top 20. That just isn't right. I'm a fan of ranked and stat'd games (like bf2142), that's why it matters so much to meh.

[Nate]

1.2 killed it 

+1

[Cadynum]

There's no such thing as a top player in a team based game.

The stats should be removed since they just cause players to play in a boring <pro statistics> way. Often in a way that's bad for their own team too.

[Crava_Loft]

[deleted]

[F50]

There's no such thing as a top player in a team based game.

The stats should be removed since they just cause players to play in a boring <pro statistics> way. Often in a way that's bad for their own team too.

Agreed. I dunno what stats track though.
It should track,
buildables repaired/built by player
damage given(taken) to(from) enemy| friendly buildables| players
kill assists; ratio of the damage you made to an enemy that someone else killed

Sounds sorta like score.

[Conzul]

Looks like the current top ten is....

Lol, if this scoreboard mattered at all, Juliet or I could go sit in US1 for 2 mins, and our names would magically appear at the top again.

I have no respect for either of you. Neither of you have played aliens. I don't give a **** what you say, you haven't played tremulous until you've played alien. Your bloated KDR is proof that "the scoreboard" doesn't matter at all.

[_Equilibrium_]

Thanks for making my point for me while you were insulting me. I don't know what I did to incur your oh so horrible wrath, but I sure as hell never bragged about my skill-set.

By the way, I played aliens for 2 years. I don't anymore because:
1.) I find humans more fun.
2.) Since there are really no more clan wars, I don't feel the need to keep my aliens sharp.

[_Equilibrium_]

edit: sorry double post

[Dracone]

For the solid basic skills, which are the most important things to have in this game, there is only one thing that matters in this game that you could measure by: how much DAMAGE you do before you die. Even then, you need case by case analysis to say anything.

But you absolutely cannot compare a structure killer with a unit killer. Focusing all your efforts on the units IS NOT BAD until you are S3, you are out of funds, or they have too many powerful units. And going right for the other team's structures isn't bad either, unless it's a clear impossibility, like nakeds going after a base with 8 acid tubes at the door.

If you wanted to bring a measurement of those basics I mentioned to a more complex level (though still not exactly accurate), the most accurate SCORING you could possibly put up there would be four numbers, two for damage done to enemy units per life, one for each team, and two for damage done to enemy structures per life, one for each team. This still wouldn't give you any clear idea of how good a player is, but it beats whatever else there is.

And for the record, I only started playing 1.2 yesterday but there is clearly no difference between most of the things that you can be a good player for in that and a good player in 1.1, it's just that some of the things you could do to be good in 1.1 are now damn near impossible in 1.2, while nothing has been added in the change.

[Conzul]

I got a little too T.O'd by tremstats. See, kills is an accurate gauge of skill for the human team, but SCORE is the only accurate gauge that works for both teams. This means that because tremstats ranks players by KDR, those with the real skill (and possibly higher SCORE) don't get the recognition that they deserve.

[Nate]

Lol I love how my little post created a huge argument 

1.2 isn't fun anymore, I get on after a year of inactivity and everyone is camping like sheet... the stats couldn't ever be accurate cuz half the people sit on rets or hold a tyrants hand.

[KillerWhale]

Lol I love how my little post created a huge argument 

1.2 isn't fun anymore, I get on after a year of inactivity and everyone is camping like sheet... the stats couldn't ever be accurate cuz half the people sit on rets or hold a tyrants hand.

You obviously haven't played more than 10 seconds of GPP in the last four months.

[Aelita]

Sea is amazing. And Whales. And also Wiki. And pretty much anybody else who grew up from a certain noob community.

But the fact stands that arguing over anything is pointless, and nobody's skill is a static value. I mean, Christ, I've seen Sea outperform you so-called old pros before.

Oh, and I forgot Kriegsgott. I love that motherfucker.

And Gen!e. Where the hell did he go?

[unimunk]

Sea is amazing. And Whales. And also Wiki. And pretty much anybody else who grew up from a certain noob community.

But the fact stands that arguing over anything is pointless, and nobody's skill is a static value. I mean, Christ, I've seen Sea outperform you so-called oldfags before.

Oh, and I forgot Kriegsgott. I love that motherfucker.

And Gen!e. Where the hell did he go?

[jit]

There's no such thing as a top player in a team based game.

The stats should be removed since they just cause players to play in a boring <pro statistics> way. Often in a way that's bad for their own team too.

yea there is. in basketball, the team with the best player in the league will win the championship. ie. kobe bryant, bill russell, shaquille o'neal, wilt chamberlain, magic johnson, kareem abdul-jabbar, michael jordan. in counter-strike, there will always be that one guy that could turn around the entire match for you. in addition, starcraft. their proleague was setup where a guy played the other team until he lost and the team with i believe 4 or 5 victories would win the match. Having the best player is very important in sc.

anyways, there will always be a top player in team games. stats dont correlate to the best player but there will be a best player. the question is how good is the top player?

[Aelita]

Sea is amazing. And Whales. And also Wiki. And pretty much anybody else who grew up from a certain noob community.

But the fact stands that arguing over anything is pointless, and nobody's skill is a static value. I mean, Christ, I've seen Sea outperform you so-called oldfags before.

Oh, and I forgot Kriegsgott. I love that motherfucker.

And Gen!e. Where the hell did he go?

You know, that's what I had typed in originally. I decided to change it before I posted it.

[Hooduphoodlum]

some of the things you could do to be good in 1.1 are now damn near impossible in 1.2, while nothing has been added in the change.

Exactly.  I cannot stress enough how important this idea is to the direction of this game.

Why should we want anything changed?  As far as I could tell we all enjoyed playing tremulous the way it was.  All I was looking for in an update was graphical improvement/interface improvement, the possible addition of new weapons/aliens to master, and perhaps some modification of weapons and buildings generally considered useless, such as barricades and flamethrowers.  There is NO REASON to be messing around with the fundamentals of the game.  The tweaks the devs are instituting make it IMPOSSIBLE for players to do things that made them successful in 1.1.  I myself, having spent countless late nights perfecting my goon chomp in the ATCS hallway to the point where I unfailingly decapitated my opponent in three chomps, find myself fucked over when I attempt to play 1.2.  The things that Dracone is referring to, all of the little skills (such as dancing, 4-shotting a goon), tidbits of knowledge about the performance of certain forms and weapons (such as the fact that the advanced dragoon has a slightly higher chomp rate than a normal dragoon), and basic reflexive movements that are required to be a dominant 1.1 tremulous player, are erased, skewed, or thrown off by 1.2.

I mean, hell, even crouching without a helmet and being able to take headchomps from a goon was an unwanted glitch, but it sure as hell made the game more interesting.  It added another strategic possibility to dodging.  It's part of what made Tremulous, Tremulous.  All of these things were, and are.

And the Hovel! Why take out the Hovel?  It seemed to me like players had gotten pretty creative with their placement of Hovels in alien bases as blockades for stopping grenades and luci-jumps and pretty much anything else, finding a use for an otherwise negligibly useful building.  There's so many interface improvements to make (like the fact that there's a 'restart map' button in the laughable in-game menu) and you're worrying about taking the Hovel out?

I could go on and on.

All of these modifications are in the wrong direction and are ruining what little the game has left.

[Silver]

some of the things you could do to be good in 1.1 are now damn near impossible in 1.2, while nothing has been added in the change.

Exactly.  I cannot stress enough how important this idea is to the direction of this game.

Why should we want anything changed?  As far as I could tell we all enjoyed playing tremulous the way it was.  All I was looking for in an update was graphical improvement/interface improvement, the possible addition of new weapons/aliens to master, and perhaps some modification of weapons and buildings generally considered useless, such as barricades and flamethrowers.  There is NO REASON to be messing around with the fundamentals of the game.  The tweaks the devs are instituting make it IMPOSSIBLE for players to do things that made them successful in 1.1.  I myself, having spent countless late nights perfecting my goon chomp in the ATCS hallway to the point where I unfailingly decapitated my opponent in three chomps, find myself fucked over when I attempt to play 1.2.  The things that Dracone is referring to, all of the little skills (such as dancing, 4-shotting a goon), tidbits of knowledge about the performance of certain forms and weapons (such as the fact that the advanced dragoon has a slightly higher chomp rate than a normal dragoon), and basic reflexive movements that are required to be a dominant 1.1 tremulous player, are erased, skewed, or thrown off by 1.2.

I mean, hell, even crouching without a helmet and being able to take headchomps from a goon was an unwanted glitch, but it sure as hell made the game more interesting.  It added another strategic possibility to dodging.  It's part of what made Tremulous, Tremulous.  All of these things were, and are.

And the Hovel! Why take out the Hovel?  It seemed to me like players had gotten pretty creative with their placement of Hovels in alien bases as blockades for stopping grenades and luci-jumps and pretty much anything else, finding a use for an otherwise negligibly useful building.  There's so many interface improvements to make (like the fact that there's a 'restart map' button in the laughable in-game menu) and you're worrying about taking the Hovel out?

I could go on and on.

All of these modifications are in the wrong direction and are ruining what little the game has left.

Hear hear!!

This statement was 103% true.

[amz181]

some of the things you could do to be good in 1.1 are now damn near impossible in 1.2, while nothing has been added in the change.

Exactly.  I cannot stress enough how important this idea is to the direction of this game.

Why should we want anything changed?  As far as I could tell we all enjoyed playing tremulous the way it was.  All I was looking for in an update was graphical improvement/interface improvement, the possible addition of new weapons/aliens to master, and perhaps some modification of weapons and buildings generally considered useless, such as barricades and flamethrowers.  There is NO REASON to be messing around with the fundamentals of the game.  The tweaks the devs are instituting make it IMPOSSIBLE for players to do things that made them successful in 1.1.  I myself, having spent countless late nights perfecting my goon chomp in the ATCS hallway to the point where I unfailingly decapitated my opponent in three chomps, find myself fucked over when I attempt to play 1.2.  The things that Dracone is referring to, all of the little skills (such as dancing, 4-shotting a goon), tidbits of knowledge about the performance of certain forms and weapons (such as the fact that the advanced dragoon has a slightly higher chomp rate than a normal dragoon), and basic reflexive movements that are required to be a dominant 1.1 tremulous player, are erased, skewed, or thrown off by 1.2.

I mean, hell, even crouching without a helmet and being able to take headchomps from a goon was an unwanted glitch, but it sure as hell made the game more interesting.  It added another strategic possibility to dodging.  It's part of what made Tremulous, Tremulous.  All of these things were, and are.

And the Hovel! Why take out the Hovel?  It seemed to me like players had gotten pretty creative with their placement of Hovels in alien bases as blockades for stopping grenades and luci-jumps and pretty much anything else, finding a use for an otherwise negligibly useful building.  There's so many interface improvements to make (like the fact that there's a 'restart map' button in the laughable in-game menu) and you're worrying about taking the Hovel out?

I could go on and on.

All of these modifications are in the wrong direction and are ruining what little the game has left.

Hear hear!!

This statement was 103% true.

I CONCUR!!

[Dracone]

Those are exactly the things I was thinking, although the hovel gone so that a barricade could come in was not so bad, since one, maybe two barricades, is pretty useful now in some situations. The hovel actually was useful. Grangers tend to get targeted during rushes. The problem was that its placement took away that use since it was an initial target for luci jumpers at ATCS, and people didn't even really bother with it most other maps.

Bring back the hovel and let the door jam bug back in by the way, that was gr8 shit.

But yeah, the game definitely suits more conservative play now. It's not that you can't be aggressive, but going out on your own is just really fucking dangerous under your normal conditions for who's on the other team. I was in a 5v5, on humans, at Niveus, and Klepto was on the aliens. It was impossible to really get much done, if anything, because in a 5v5 public game, you need to get lucky, having someone who knows how to build a base that you don't need 4 people defending, and you need at least one person who will come out with you. I would say Klepto is the best alien player in 1.2, and with advanced goons able to pounce chainsuits before the chainsuits kill them if the confrontation starts up close, there's not much I was able to do. I couldn't hide around objects because he knows better, and also knows better than to fight me in any area where the terrain is against him. So I died damn near every time because I had no team support. They wouldn't come with me.

Now this isn't the topic to post this, but I'm already here and its already been put off course. You cannot have an opinion of players in GPP because it's simply too conditional in its balancing. The goon jump and pounce gets broken while the goon is moving on most stairs. STAIRS should not be that biased towards humans. The goon should have some sort of feature or counter to this. I can agree with the advantage of elevation, but not stupid problems with the goon's movement on stairs. The other aliens seem to have a little bit of trouble on stairs as well, but not as much as the goon since it pretty much requires pounce now.

The game is now much more noob friendly, but only under highly populated server conditions.

[F50]

STAIRS should not be that biased towards humans. The goon should have some sort of feature or counter to this. I can agree with the advantage of elevation, but not stupid problems with the goon's movement on stairs. The other aliens seem to have a little bit of trouble on stairs as well, but not as much as the goon since it pretty much requires pounce now.

True. Water also disables pounce and makes mara jumping very difficult. It may as well be lava to most aliens.

[Conzul]

The game is now much more human friendly,

fixed

[superspirality]

The game is now much more human friendly,

owned

[Dance Commander]

lets be honest.  St. Anger on a good day, or any day that wasnt awful, was unstoppable.  bloodydemon was good at pubstomping noobs, yarou was good, but not quit at angers level.  there are tonnes of people who played at a level a little bit below anger, but, and this might have changed since ive stopped being active, during anger's prime no one could touch him.  i played some urban terror with him and that was even more of a shitshow.  now, to stop jerking off on him, im only talking about raw skill here.  dracone, smokey, the OPP leaders, and others good at leading scrims and such were invaluable.  and obviously very skilled themselves. 

too bad most of the scrims i played were on the tactical oblivion that atcs was.  "ok, lets get shotguns and crouch move down this hallway...."  seriously, the aliens wouldve been much more fun if dragoons and dretches wernt the only viable evolution 80% of the time.  sure, you could mara or basi if you outskilled the other team by a lot, but in a close match, no one did it.  same goes for larmor shotties.

[Aelita]

I think it's evolved to the point where ATCS scrims TRY to keep it weird and non-normal. Sure the `pro' clan scene's been in a downspiral for a long while now, but there was a golden age not too long ago, maybe a year and a a half or so ago, where clans worked together to keep matches exciting and such.

[flash3]

1..Eye
2.Serdinho
3.Floww
4.Dracone
5.3of12
6.Colynn
7.Sayeru
8.Octal
9.Arkenion
10.Warlock

[Laencii]

1..Eye
2.Serdinho
3.Floww
4.Dracone
5.3of12
6.Colynn
7.Sayeru
8.Octal
9.Arkenion
10.Warlock

-.-

.eye? .EYE?! FLASH QUE TE MATO! Encima hay gente que ya ni juega XD

[DraZiLoX]

1..Eye
2.Serdinho
3.Floww
4.Dracone
5.3of12
6.Colynn
7.Sayeru
8.Octal
9.Arkenion
10.Warlock

-.-

.eye? .EYE?! FLASH QUE TE MATO! Encima hay gente que ya ni juega XD

Your signature lies. You dont speak englihs at all.

[Jack Bauer]

1..Eye
2.Serdinho
3.Floww
4.Dracone
5.3of12
6.Colynn
7.Sayeru
8.Octal
9.Arkenion
10.Warlock

-.-

.eye? .EYE?! FLASH QUE TE MATO! Encima hay gente que ya ni juega XD

Your signature lies. You dont speak englihs at all.

Eye is an english word

[Aviator]

So is flash :S