Author Topic: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)  (Read 34791 times)

F50

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Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« on: March 07, 2010, 12:38:18 am »
I've been doing a little tinkering with jetpacks, asking questions things like: "What if jetpacks couldn't camp in the air?", "What if jetpacks flew like a glider, rather than a hot air balloon?", and "Just how does bg_pmove.c work anyways?". This mod is my answer to those questions (although, the answer to the last one was only to be found in the development of the mod, not the final product).

Features:
  • Jetpacks have a limited amount (about 5 seconds, and yes I know how long five seconds is) of fuel which recharges at 1/2 of that rate. (this one I owe to cqvm)
  • Jetpacks are no longer disabled when the reactor goes down.
  • Jetpacks accelerate slowly, but move much faster over time. However if you are just using it to go laterally it is almost always faster to sprint, and often to walk. If you are actually on the ground, the game using ground friction instead of air friction, rendering the jetpack functionally immobile in all directions except upward.
  • Jetpacks accelerate upwards just like any other direction.
  • The time that jetpacks are disabled when damaged has been doubled (now 2 seconds) during which time they will still use fuel unless the wearer deactivates it.
  • Jetpacks cannot be activated during a dodge
  • Jetpack fuel is bought as if it were ammo (and is considered an energy device)
  • A poorly-placed charge bar

Hope you guys find this fun/useful/interesting, enjoy: Patch, VMs, Data.

To install, make a directory called "MobileJetpack" in your basepath (I believe homepath would work as well, but I didn't test that) of your svn build, and put the .pk3s there. You also need to have a gpp data package (tested with data-gppr2053.pk3 and data-gppr2090.pk3) as well (sorry superpie :-[ Asvarox had this problem too I think).


EDIT: In case anyone is compiling my mod from the patch and wishes to change the amount of fuel the jetpack has, these lines near the top of the patch (or around line 500 of game/tremulous.h) may be of interest to you:

Code: [Select]
+#define JETPACK_MAX_FUEL            30000
+#define JETPACK_REGEN_RATE          3
+#define JETPACK_USE_RATE            6
JETPACK_MAX_FUEL is the maximum fuel units the jetpack can store, JETPACK_REGEN_RATE is the fuel units regenerated every second you are not using the jetpack, and JETPACK_USE_RATE is the fuel units consumed every milisecond you are using the jetpack. Now that I've fixed the discrepancy between these numbers and the actual flight time, the amount of time the jetpack can fly in one go is the max fuel units divided by the use rate, so all you need to do is change a number, and you *can* have a jetpack that doesn't run out of fuel for a whole minute.

If you do try other values, I would like to hear about how you think it effects balance/fun/etc (and especially balance).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 04:30:17 pm by F50 »
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Demolution

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 10:17:28 am »
I understand wanting to prevent camping, but .... How is five seconds of fuel useful?

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CreatureofHell

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 10:38:26 am »
I see similarities:

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F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 11:50:51 am »
I understand wanting to prevent camping, but .... How is five seconds of fuel useful?

Because jetpacks are a *lot* more mobile. There is almost nowhere that you would need more than the full jetpack charge. For some of the longer trips (like from the bottom to the top of the Karith shaft) you have to be careful about making a proper landing, and you don't have much room for error if you want to take it in one go, but more fuel isn't necessary. Any shaft in Cleanser can be taken to the roof in one go. All directly vertical heights on transit may be taken in one go.

There are also some new applications that make me wonder if I've gone to far. If you see a tyrant coming at you, it should take no more than 1 second (again, jump before using) to get above where it would be able to slash you with the current settings. The mobile jetpack is far from useless.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 11:56:32 am by F50 »
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ACKMAN

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 02:32:44 pm »
*downloads*

Before testing, I have to say that, for builders, this is a bad idea.

[EDIT]

Ok, It looks pretty good, but needs fixing for spectators. Also, I don't like the fact that you don't stop falling immediately when you use it, so you can still die.

And, If you mix it with dodge you get a really fast way to escape from aliens.

I made a demo: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21304186/jetpacktest2.dm_70
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 03:18:04 pm by ACKMAN »

commander scrooge

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 08:28:19 pm »
5 seconds? are you serious? thats barely long enough to fly over the bunker on ATCS!  I like the idea over all though, maybe extend the jetpack to 20 or 30 seconds instead of 5, dont persecute jetpacks plz.
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rotacak

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 10:58:56 pm »
Demo link not work and I think, jetpack is good as is.

F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 11:17:07 pm »
Quote
And, If you mix it with dodge you get a really fast way to escape from aliens.
I was considering leaving dodge+jetpack as a viable strategy, but on second thought, its not a good idea. Should I cp a message to the user when the jetpack malfunctions, or let people rtfm?

Quote
Ok, It looks pretty good, but needs fixing for spectators.
Fixed. The variable pm_airaccelerate was unused, so I put that in PM_FlyMove instead of pm_flyaccelerate, which is used for jetpacks. The upshot of it is that spectators are now unaffected.

Quote
I don't like the fact that you don't stop falling immediately when you use it, so you can still die.
That is completely intentional. If that was not the case, then you could always stop yourself from falling, even if you had almost no fuel left.
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Asvarox

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 04:49:55 pm »
Demo link not work and I think, jetpack is good as is.
Well on your server once humans hit s2, they all buy jetpacks and camp for whole game which aint fun at all.

Im unable to run the mod, if i put it in basepath (C:/Tremulous/) or in %appdata%/Tremulous and try to change mod by mod menu it turns off trem, then after few seconds black screen appears for a second and disappears and Im back on desktop.

Not sure if it's the reason, but I don't use "official" build (from the installer), but binaries posted by Lakitu7 few weeks ago, it says that it's revision 1960.
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rotacak

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 06:18:08 pm »
Demo link not work and I think, jetpack is good as is.
Well on your server once humans hit s2, they all buy jetpacks and camp for whole game which aint fun at all.
1) if is it problem, map maker should remove jetpack (about what map you talking?)
2) if someone jettarding, he missing in base for defend
3) they have limited ammo
4) once humas  hit s2, they buy prifle and camp whole game on turrets = remove humans ;)

Asvarox

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 06:58:20 pm »
Demo link not work and I think, jetpack is good as is.
Well on your server once humans hit s2, they all buy jetpacks and camp for whole game which aint fun at all.
1) if is it problem, map maker should remove jetpack (about what map you talking?)
2) if someone jettarding, he missing in base for defend
3) they have limited ammo
4) once humas  hit s2, they buy prifle and camp whole game on turrets = remove humans ;)
1) Then you'd had to remove jetpack from almost every map (arachnid, atcs, niveus, and most non-standard maps your server is running).
2) Yes but killing base with 200 rets in it when it's underwater is quite hard and takes some time.
3) they can return to base and get some which can take like 5 seconds?
4) I never said that jetpack should be removed, but changed. Humans got "changed" they almost never camp, and if they do, they get owned by dretches.

My last post was directed to your server (as it was pretty strange for me, owner of most jettarding server available is saying that current jetpack is fine).

Jetpack in general (this means normal 1.2 gameplay) sucks too - jettards still exist, they are annoying for their teammates and aliens, there's no fun in using it (only to shoot aliens while flying for newbies). This mod however, from what I have read, makes camping with jetpack impossible, adds another skill factor to the game (so it's less boring) and, the most important, makes using jetpack fun.
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ACKMAN

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 08:02:42 pm »
Numbers are cool.

1) Demo link is working.
2) I see current jetpack useful just in a few maps for a few things. And jetcamping isn't in those things.
2a) Limited ammo? d... oh come on! Your server is unlimited, you can just build a repeater and an arm/med and you're done. Up there, indeed
3) Asvarox, bitch. Use 1.2 binary to run the mod.
4) once humas  hit s2, they buy prifle and camp whole game on turrets = remove humans ;)
4) What. Srsly. I don't know what you're trying to say.
5) I know that stopping the fall instantly would make the fuel unuseful, but you could either:
       - Make jetpack able to stop fall when you turn it on for 1 sec (Seriously, try to stop your fall, even with full fuel is difficult if you are close to the floor)
       - Make jetpack turn on only if player has X> fuel, so they can't turn it on when they're falling (and jetpack just turned off).


tl;dr => this mod is cool, should be tested on official servers AND your arguments against it are invalid.



PS: Did you re-upload the patch/vms with the new version?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 08:06:28 pm by ACKMAN »

rotacak

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 10:18:32 pm »
Asvarox: atcs, niveus, arachnid? There can be jettards reached by goons. I was made rotcannon but I don't want even there to disable/change jetpack, rather that I added mushrooms and hangar where aliens can hide. Problem is for example in maps like castle, outpost p4, pushcannon. There you, like alien, can do absolutely nothing.

But atcs is ok. There can be problem too, if humans have base in bunker and many of them jettarding, but that happen once per week? And if you are human, without enough credits, around only tyrants, is good to take jetpack and try to earn some creds.

You can request to change MD too. Its similar, when someone will use (new) jetpack to reach good place for md camp. Then he can snipe all dretches around. And you cant do nothing. Only kill him.

Quote
Limited ammo? d... oh come on! Your server is unlimited, you can just build a repeater and an arm/med and you're done
Yes, in that case you should use primary or secondary attack and destroy that :-)

And another example - weapon spam. I dont know if is still denied on other servers but I was really curious when I played somewhere, map was atcs, I scared goon with prifle, he escaped on bunker, I empty out magazine to edge of bunker (only for sure) and I got warn for spamming... I should not too much shoot, because aliens cannot kill me too easy.

That is completely wrong.

I agree that jettarding can be sometime annoying, weapon spam too, but it is part of game and it is playable. This change of jetpack is better than only limit it to time, but my opinion is still same - jetpack not need to be changed - even his sound. If you will change it, then trem only lose next thing together with hovel and other things (and jettards, and killing jettards when you land them on heads, and jetbuilders...).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 06:05:22 pm by rotacak »

F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 11:48:04 pm »
Not sure if it's the reason, but I don't use "official" build (from the installer), but binaries posted by Lakitu7 few weeks ago, it says that it's revision 1960.
This mod uses the latest svn at the time of the last edit to the top post, in this case r1982, so that's probably enough to cause trouble. I'm not sure of how it would work if you used gpp (is that the installer you are talking about?). Do you use linux or windows? I *might* be able to post a binary on speedyshare for you.

5) I know that stopping the fall instantly would make the fuel unuseful, but you could either:
       - Make jetpack able to stop fall when you turn it on for 1 sec (Seriously, try to stop your fall, even with full fuel is difficult if you are close to the floor)
       - Make jetpack turn on only if player has X> fuel, so they can't turn it on when they're falling (and jetpack just turned off).
You can stop with about 2 seconds of fuel (stopping usually necessitates upward thrust) from the top of the cleanser shaft. Karith stacks becomes non-damaging after one second of upward thrust I believe. I don't think I'm going to change this directly, at least for now, I like how it requires some planning to make more difficult maneuvers like that.

Quote
PS: Did you re-upload the patch/vms with the new version?
I believe so, yes. I will make versions evident in the name of the file for future updates (like I already should have been doing).

I agree that jettarding can be sometime annoying...but it is part of game and it is playable.
Absolutely, and in most cases jettards can be ignored. I am perfectly fine with the current jetpack. I just want to try out something different and see how that works out. If this change makes it more fun, and is balanced, then its a success, if it gets into gpp, I'd be astonished. If it isn't fun and 'fails' (and can't be trivially fixed), then it was a good experiment.
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mooseberry

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 05:33:22 am »
5 seconds? are you serious? thats barely long enough to fly over the bunker on ATCS!  I like the idea over all though, maybe extend the jetpack to 20 or 30 seconds instead of 5, dont persecute jetpacks plz.

Because jetpacks are a *lot* more mobile. There is almost nowhere that you would need more than the full jetpack charge. For some of the longer trips (like from the bottom to the top of the Karith shaft) you have to be careful about making a proper landing, and you don't have much room for error if you want to take it in one go, but more fuel isn't necessary. Any shaft in Cleanser can be taken to the roof in one go. All directly vertical heights on transit may be taken in one go.

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rotacak

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2010, 12:23:40 pm »
I agree that jettarding can be sometime annoying...but it is part of game and it is playable.
Absolutely, and in most cases jettards can be ignored. I am perfectly fine with the current jetpack. I just want to try out something different and see how that works out. If this change makes it more fun, and is balanced, then its a success, if it gets into gpp, I'd be astonished. If it isn't fun and 'fails' (and can't be trivially fixed), then it was a good experiment.
I agree.

Plague Bringer

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2010, 06:51:21 pm »
Demo link broken. Someone Youtube this.
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Demolution

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 04:12:44 am »
http://www.2shared.com/file/12145139/50fe97c5/jetpacktest2.html

There is the demo. Make sure you install the patch or else it will not work.

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harraps

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2010, 07:03:52 pm »
It's a great ideas but why not have 2 different jetpack
a fast and a camp jetpack.
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ACKMAN

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2010, 10:47:29 pm »
Or let the uset toggle the jetpack flying style, ftw.

F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2010, 06:38:26 am »
It's a great ideas but why not have 2 different jetpack
a fast and a camp jetpack.

The purpose of this mod is to *remove* camping jetpacks. While I did say that they can be ignored, and that I am fine with the current jetpack, I do not believe this is ideal. To be able to switch between being able to move really fast, and being able to sit around forever completely defeats the purpose of the mod. I am not trying to give the humans another ability on top of the ones they currently have, but to replace an old ability with something that does certain desirable (but hopefully maintaining the original balance) things better (move from one place to another), and doesn't do undesirable things as well (camp in such a way that is extremely hard to kill in certain situations [see karith:outside])
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rotacak

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 10:13:34 pm »
Is possible to upload patch somewhere else? I getting this http://www.funny-games.biz/main.html instead patch.

ACKMAN

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 11:19:47 pm »
It shows the file as deleted for me. So...

F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 05:41:48 am »
The files will get deleted and re-posted periodically. I have no idea how you were redirected to that site, but nevertheless, the patch is up. The patch and the qvms get deleted at different times though (probably dependent on downloads). Idk really, speedyshare is rather convenient.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 12:54:20 am by F50 »
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khalsa

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F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2010, 01:35:42 am »
Thanks Khalsa, links updated.

The patch has been updated slightly as well. I've increased the frequency of the checks made for the jetpack from every second to every 1/10 of a second. The reason is that when you activated the jetpack, you would begin to use fuel not one second later, but as soon as the next second was registered on the timer. This resulted in a discrepancy between max_fuel/use_rate and the actual time you would be able to use the jetpack. Now jetpack total flight time should only vary by 1/10 of a second. I also changed the way jetpacks move upwards and downwards to be consistent with lateral movement.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 10:55:17 am by F50 »
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F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2010, 09:38:08 am »
Updated. Now with a charge bar, among other things.
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CATAHA

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2011, 01:59:29 pm »
The purpose of this mod is to *remove* camping jetpacks.
As rotacak noticed not so many maps where you can realy safe camping with jetpak. Most of them so rarely used. =]
Im personally using jetpack for mobility and lisk evading. With your mod... ye, no camping, no mobility. Look like i can throw away useless jetpack on half-way to alien base. =\

PS You cant prevent peoples from caming (only with admin actions). I can bet a lot of nabs will camp at atcs base and recarge evn with your mod. =}
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F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2011, 04:23:50 pm »
Not really true. Karith is a great example of safe and effective jetpack camping, particularly if you move to outside or elevator room.

However, you seem to be pretty skeptical of the mod description if you say the jetpack in this mod is not mobile. Have you tried it at all? Try playing around with it. I think you'll find moving around, especially on Karith (especially in the stacks room) to be much more, well, mobile.

Finally, one of the stated goals of the 1.2 balance changes was to reduce the effectiveness of camping. No, you can't stop people from camping, but you can make it much more difficult, and much less rewarding. That said, I don't believe camping is an evil in and of itself (its necessary to prevent slight advantages from turning a game IMO), but I think jetpack camping is generally despised.
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Plague Bringer

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 05:57:37 pm »
This still up?
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F50

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 07:39:55 pm »
This is currently used on the brindus server, and yes, the links in the top of the thread still work. I've shown it to several people, with the charge bar, and have gotten encouraging responses. Enjoy!
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c4

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 09:26:50 pm »
gimme pls I want to see :P
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CorSair

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Re: Mobile Jetpack mod (for 1.2)
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2011, 08:19:25 pm »
gimme pls I want to see :P

currently used on the brindus server...--...the links in the top of the thread still work.