Author Topic: Parpax  (Read 76282 times)

Viech

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Parpax
« on: August 16, 2012, 12:47:42 am »
Here comes the beta release of my map Parpax! It's a medium sized map for maybe 8-16 players.













Download links:

Beta 4:
Download

Beta 3:
dropbox.com
freakshare.com
share-online.biz


Beta 2:
dropbox.com
share-online.biz


Beta 1:
dropbox.com
share-online.biz
freakshare.com



Hope you enjoy it! Criticism is welcome, improvement ideas are even better!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 12:09:25 am by Viech »

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 02:14:39 pm »
When playing my map it would be really helpful if you ...

... take screenshots of spots/bugs/situations that you want to give me feedback about. This will also help others to quickly join the discussion.
... record a demo of the round and post it here! I need to see how many different players, from newbie to pro, interact with my map. In this way I can see how you move and where you hang/stuck, how you build, which items/classes you use and what tactics you develop. Please ensure no granger is harmed in the making of your video. ;)


I made a list of questions that I'm particularly interested in:

- Balancing -
Are the teams balanced all in all? (Please include the number of players.)
Is there a stage where both teams (on the same stage) are particularly imbalanced? (Number of players?)
Is it easier for one team to advance to a particular stage?
Are there areas that are strongly imbalanced? If yes, do you think that is a drawback to gameflow or does it rather make the map more interesting?
Are there areas where movement is complicated for one of the teams?
Are there significant shortcuts which are too easy to exploit for one team?

- Bases -
Are the default bases balanced and appropriate? Do they stand fast rushes in the first two minutes of the game?
Are the default base locations appropriate for extending the default bases?
Is there a moving location that is so interesting to both teams that they will fight about it? Has one team a strong advantage in this fight?
Are there any locations that are so much better than the default bases that one team always tries to move there right from the start (like window room on niveus)?

- Performance (please include your hardware and FPS) -
Is the map playable on your hardware? How does it compare to other maps?
What areas/situations particularly have a bad impact on performance?

- Layout -
Are there spots that are too dark? (I play with /r_gamma 1.3)
Are there spots where you tend to hang/stuck frequently?
Are there hiding spots for small aliens that can't be attacked by humans (on stage 2)?
Are there corridors where big aliens block each other? Does it improve balance or is it just annoying?
Are there dead areas that aren't interesting for gameplay?
Is the map diverse enough so that all items and alien classes have their application?

CorSair

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 03:50:28 pm »
I took small tour in your map, and I gotta say, nicely done.

A note, though. I got some error coming up now and then, near alien base saying:
Code: [Select]
ERROR: A particle system has not been registered yet.

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2012, 04:58:02 pm »
the baked-in ret models have missing textures.

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2012, 05:29:26 pm »
A note, though. I got some error coming up now and then, near alien base saying:
Code: [Select]
ERROR: A particle system has not been registered yet.
The only map-specific particle system are sparks that are ejected from the defective crane in front of the alien base. The particle system is included in scripts/parpax.particle in map-parpax-b01.pk3 and uses gfx/sprites/spark.tga which should be included in data-1.1.0.pk3. Can you see the sparks at the crane (the barrel attached to a rope that moves up and down)? What version of tremulous are you using? I can't reproduce that error on GPP.

the baked-in ret models have missing textures.
I can't reproduce that on a clean installation (no additional pk3's) of GPP. Could you give more information on your setup? Do you get an error message?

CorSair

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2012, 06:10:10 pm »
Sorry for rushed post. I didn't had time to look properly, but now back. :P

Obviously, I got some redundant stuff on my base folder. It says I have reached maximum particles (192), so I guess I need to clean it up... >.<
Imma do some sort clean up, then report back...

the baked-in ret models have missing textures.
Not happenin' on my part.

.:edit:.
A-yup. I got some shitstuff on my base folder, small cleanup did some miracle.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 06:14:27 pm by CorSair »

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 06:29:59 pm »
the baked-in ret models have missing textures.
I can't reproduce that on a clean installation (no additional pk3's) of GPP. Could you give more information on your setup?
binary: (slightly modified version of) r2272 of GPP
basepath: 1.1.0 pk3s (minus vms-1.1.0.pk3)
homepath: data-gppr2223.pk3, map-parpax-b01.pk3, zzzz-vms-r2272+amp.pk3
Do you get an error message?
no.

attached is a screenshot of the said missing textures.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 06:39:16 pm by /dev/humancontroller »

Undeference

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 08:58:29 pm »
Quote
(2012-08-15 19:48:09) Viech: new map release: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16797.0 :)
(2012-08-15 19:56:12) Viech: i would love to start beta testing right away, if someone could put it online

(2012-08-15 21:43:09) Undeference: only 2 hours late (and .5 late for Viech to see), it's on betaserv
(2012-08-15 21:46:30) Undeference: looks washed out at my normal gamma level
looks like it's only on Betaserv for now. "washed out" was a little of an exaggeration, but definitely doesn't look as good as with lower than my normal gamma
Need help? Ask intelligently. Please share solutions you find.

Thats what we need, helpful players, not more powerful admins.

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 09:22:35 pm »
my normal
?!@><#?><D?><AS?>D<A?S><D?AS<D??
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 11:59:28 pm by /dev/humancontroller »

Undeference

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 11:28:24 pm »
Need help? Ask intelligently. Please share solutions you find.

Thats what we need, helpful players, not more powerful admins.

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 12:00:31 am »

Lakitu7

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 12:21:36 am »
Okay, by request, it's up on US1/EU1/downloads.mercenariesguild.net.

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2012, 02:37:34 am »
Obviously, I got some redundant stuff on my base folder. It says I have reached maximum particles (192), so I guess I need to clean it up... >.<
[...]
A-yup. I got some shitstuff on my base folder, small cleanup did some miracle.
I didn't know there was a maximum number of particles. But I'm glad the issue isn't related to my particle system. :)

the baked-in ret models have missing textures.
I can't reproduce that on a clean installation (no additional pk3's) of GPP. Could you give more information on your setup?
binary: (slightly modified version of) r2272 of GPP
basepath: 1.1.0 pk3s (minus vms-1.1.0.pk3)
homepath: data-gppr2223.pk3, map-parpax-b01.pk3, zzzz-vms-r2272+amp.pk3
My installation wasn't as clean as I told you, I just found out that the model I'm using (models/buildables/mgturret/mgturret.md3) is included in data-radiant-1.1.0.pk3. I will try to fix that issue with the next release.

"washed out" was a little of an exaggeration, but definitely doesn't look as good as with lower than my normal gamma
My primary fear was that the map is too dark since I develop with r_gamma 1.3. Are there other maps that seem too bright/washed out with your settings? I'm not sure if I should make the map any darker.

Okay, by request, it's up on US1/EU1/downloads.mercenariesguild.net.
Thank you! I will begin testing as soon as I'm sober again (tomorrow). :)

Undeference

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 04:05:18 am »
Are there other maps that seem too bright/washed out with your settings? I'm not sure if I should make the map any darker.
There are a few but not the defaults or most others, so that's why I commented on it
Need help? Ask intelligently. Please share solutions you find.

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Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2012, 12:34:44 pm »
I took some critique from the game logs of the first two games:

Quote from: Odal
A dretch could singlehandedly tie a game in this map
I'm aware of this issue. I think the best solution would be if you can't tie by hiding at all. I'm thinking of a two minute timelimit if there isn't a builder among the leftover players of one team (before sudden death) and there aren't any spawns left. This way you could still try to rush the enemy base once but don't hide in pipe shafts. Since tremulous developement isn't that active anymore I'm afraid that I have to change my map somehow so that staying in the pipe shaft for a while is impossible. I'm thinking about small electric shocks that draw 5 life every second. I would also take removing the pipe shaft into account, if many players think that it's going too far.

Quote from: Odal
Yeah [lookable doors are] pretty shitty. You also can't move around as a spec and it pisses me off
I will see if I can place spectator-only teleporters in front of the locked doors (that's the same technique that is being used for normal doors). Once again, if the button-opened doors piss players off I will remove the part of the emergency exit that leads to the alien base and make the other end a normal door. The ventilation shafts wouldn't reach the human base then. Just give me honest feedback and I'll react.

Quote from: {N7}PR3DATOR
this ma p lags for me
The map has a lot of detail on a rather small space so performance was one of the things that I always had in mind. Unfortunately my machine is pretty fast and runs all areas of the map at full FPS so I don't know what areas need the most work for an overall smooth experience. Tell me the areas that have the greatest impact on performance and I will try to improve them.
Also sorry for changing [N7] to {N7}, the forum forced me to do so. ;)

Quote from: Odal
Nice way of spelling closing
I already changed that. :P

Quote from: {N7}PR3DATOR
this map sucks
Quote from: itsme
this map really isn't very good
This is a beta version and I take beta testing seriously. When working on the map I was able to test it on a two-on-two at most with the same people all over again. These people were present when I made design decisions and so they knew and liked the map when they play-tested it with me. I'm pretty aware that some elements such as button-triggered doors and crushing elevators are prone to frustrate players. Still I wanted to go one step forward and try out new gameplay ideas - that might fail. If you think you found such a failure feel welcome to give me bad criticism! I will react to it and I will consider it when I continue working on the map. I'm not afraid of major changes - removing stuff, making rooms smaller or bigger, etc. The only thing I desperately need to know is what exactly you dislike.

Xedoh

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2012, 06:07:08 pm »
*blows dust off the forum account*

Despite not having played tremulous for quite some time I still check the forums once in a while. When I saw this map today, I decided to give it a shot and while I didn't actually play the map, I thought I'd provide some feedback concerning the design.

1. picture:
Just the usual missing texture hidden somewhere, nothing too serious

2. picture:
That was the only thing I found worth criticising. It could be just me playing in bright daylight, but it was not easy to spot those stairs. There is no need to make the map brighter overall, but a small light near the lowest part of those stairs might draw attention to them.

3. picture
I won't go into balancing intensively for now because I...
a) ...didn't play it, just watched a game
b) ...haven't played for ages and
c) ...suck at balancing maps anyway

Anyway, while I was online somebody expressed concern that aliens might have the advantage. If that turns out to be true, one thing i could imagine is putting a ladder in one of those vents, as it would allow humans without battlesuits to get up in an additional way.

Other than that the map is very appealing visually. You did an awesome job there.
Wisdom starts where knowledge ends.

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 1)
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2012, 06:22:45 pm »
Hi Xedoh, thank you for your review! :)

1. picture:
Just the usual missing texture hidden somewhere, nothing too serious
The reason for missing textures is the following: Most of the textures I use are included in map-parpax-b01.pk3 as it is best practice. However I reference some textures from default tremulous maps because I don't know the precise author and license of these textures and since they are included in every Tremulous installation. However, the official gpp servers are pure servers and don't run the 1.1 maps that are shipped with tremulous but only the gpp versions of these maps. That means that even though you have the textures installed locally inside the 1.1 maps you may not see them since the server is pure and doesn't allow you to. Luckily the gpp versions of the default maps incldue the same textures and as soon as you have played and downloaded them you will be able to grab the "missing" textures from them. A fix would be to either upload the 1.1 maps to the official servers or include the textures in my pk3 which I currently don't plan to do for the reasons I explained above.

2. picture:
That was the only thing I found worth criticising. It could be just me playing in bright daylight, but it was not easy to spot those stairs. There is no need to make the map brighter overall, but a small light near the lowest part of those stairs might draw attention to them.
I will add some light to the stairs, especially to the lower regions.

Anyway, while I was online somebody expressed concern that aliens might have the advantage. If that turns out to be true, one thing i could imagine is putting a ladder in one of those vents, as it would allow humans without battlesuits to get up in an additional way.
This would indeed even the odds but the price would be that the stairs would loose importance. Since I'm working on some other major gameplay changes I will take a closer look on balance as soon as Beta 2 is out.

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2012, 08:59:44 pm »
Beta 2 Changelog

  • sounds/parpax/crane.wav has been added to COPYING section
  • the emergency exit has been removed, the room behind the elevator shaft stays and has a normal door now
  • one of the ladders in the elevator shaft and the hole towards upper storage has been removed
  • the ventilation shafts don't reach the human base anymore
  • spectator teleporters have been added for easier navigation
  • the lower regions of the stairs have been made brighter
  • a box has been moved in long hall so humans have more space to move there
  • the cage at the highest platform of the stairs has been removed
  • human default has a few crates at the side entrance now

So no more confusing buttons apart from those at the elevator. ;)

vcxzet

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2012, 11:57:04 pm »
thanks for contributing another map using the overused textures

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2012, 07:29:58 am »
  • when the map "starts", the elevator door opens. the door should initially be opened instead.
  • one of the fans behind the default reactor isn't spinning. is that intentional?
  • wtf is up with the water/power hoses on the floor? that's bad practice from the management's point of view. the hose in the lower fork looks reasonable (it looks like some temporary repair work is being done), but the hose in the short hall must be removed or hung on the ceiling (in order to avoid blocking vehicles).
  • the shape of the rounded stair steps are quite fancy, but noone in real life makes stairs that have visible holes when viewed orthogonally from the top. consider adding depth to the stair pieces, if that won't look worse.
  • the map sections that are now (in beta 2) separated from the rest of the map still reside in the map. TODO: remove.
  • in the long hall, what do the grates on the walls protect the walls from? the grating there is fancy, but illogical.
  • in the front hall, there's a metal cover removed from the wall. is that a computer panel and a big fucking floodlight hidden inside a wall? that's like:
  • the grated, inaccessible rooms in the elevator shafts are pointless from the architectural point of view.
  • other than the emergency exit door and the glass opening over the staircase, there appears to be no entrance in or out of the complex. in other words, this base is a base for the sake of being a base.
  • perhaps the elevator would be more appealing if parts of its walls were replaced with grating.
  • one corner in the elevator shaft (attachment: elevator_shaft_corner_clog.jpg) induces jerky movement for humans there. the hole should be filled.
  • another corner (attachment: elevator_shaft_corner_surf.jpg) causes humans to surf.
  • i repeat: use texture packs.

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2012, 07:31:47 am »
2 images of map holes (void) and 4 images of imperfect lighting...

official
(TM)
gpp servers are pure servers and don't run the 1.1 maps that are shipped with tremulous but only the gpp versions of these maps. That means that even though you have the textures installed locally inside the 1.1 maps you may not see them since the server is pure and doesn't allow you to.
ind33d, that is a server bug.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 07:38:56 am by /dev/humancontroller »

Viech

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2012, 12:38:10 pm »
when the map "starts", the elevator door opens. the door should initially be opened instead.
This happens due to the complex, super hacky way the elevator is done and I kind of like it. It gives the map some lively preamble.

one of the fans behind the default reactor isn't spinning. is that intentional?
I'm totally not sure but since it's a lost facility there should be even more malfunctioning stuff than there currently is so I'll leave it that way.

wtf is up with the water/power hoses on the floor? that's bad practice from the management's point of view. the hose in the lower fork looks reasonable (it looks like some temporary repair work is being done), but the hose in the short hall must be removed or hung on the ceiling (in order to avoid blocking vehicles).
As with the defective fan in rear storage I think that the map would need even more cables. The problem is that sophisticated details don't fit my rough brushwork too well and so I'm happy for every corner where a cable doesn't look totally out of place. But I agree this one looks a little out of place and if I come to adding more details I will consider putting some machine there that would make it reasonable to have a cable lying on the ground.

the shape of the rounded stair steps are quite fancy, but noone in real life makes stairs that have visible holes when viewed orthogonally from the top. consider adding depth to the stair pieces, if that won't look worse.
Well facilities in real life have doors to the outer world, too. I think the stairs are not my biggest problem when it comes to realism. From the gameplay perspective bigger holes enable humans to shoot through more easily and since the map is currently biased towards the aliens that sounds like a good feature to me.

the map sections that are now (in beta 2) separated from the rest of the map still reside in the map. TODO: remove.
Yes, of course. Just didn't want to trash them yet since I might be reusing some of the brushwork there in later versions (for example the fancy useless tank thing in the ventilation shafts will probably come back). I won't leave any garbage in later versions of my map, I promise!

in the long hall, what do the grates on the walls protect the walls from? the grating there is fancy, but illogical.
in the front hall, there's a metal cover removed from the wall. is that a computer panel and a big fucking floodlight hidden inside a wall?
Yes it is and yes it's all for the fanciness. Did you notice the big pipes at the ceiling of front storage form a circle? Ha! This is even more senseless. So even though you are totally right with your observations I see no way this map will ever be realistic and logical. If it was a painting there would be some intellectual explanation to all of this so think of my map as a piece of art and imagine the grating shall express anxiety. ;D

the grated, inaccessible rooms in the elevator shafts are pointless from the architectural point of view.
That was a quick fix since an alien base in the elevation shaft would take pretty much all fun out of the game from a human perspective since the hole towards upper storage is gone. But here I agree, there shall be an upgrade eventually.

other than the emergency exit door and the glass opening over the staircase, there appears to be no entrance in or out of the complex. in other words, this base is a base for the sake of being a base.
I had this in mind but now it's black on white on my TODO list. There will be an exit out of the base!

perhaps the elevator would be more appealing if parts of its walls were replaced with grating.
Yes that would look cool. The problem is the static lighting and the fact that it would still be illuminated bright orange when going by the blue lights. I might experiment with it but chances are that it will stay as it is.

one corner in the elevator shaft (attachment: elevator_shaft_corner_clog.jpg) induces jerky movement for humans there. the hole should be filled.
another corner (attachment: elevator_shaft_corner_surf.jpg) causes humans to surf.
Both put on TODO.

i repeat: use texture packs.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Most of the map is made with evillair's textures and I agree they are in every trem map. The reason I used them anyway is that the sets are, apart from being low definition, very good. I won't retexture the map for tremulous but it will get a normalmapped texture replacement for unvanquished later (I will, of course, do a proper and maintained tremulous release first). The product could probably be backported to trem, too, but it will look shitty as trem's engine expects shadows to be statically included in the diffusemap and q3map2's normalmap support suffers from low definition lightmaps. I don't know any fitting q3-style (non-normalmapped) textures apart from the ones that are used heavily in trem maps or otherwise I had used them instead.

To your "void" screenshots:
This isn't really a hole to the void since otherwise the map wouldn't even compile. I think the problem is that with diagonal brushes real numbers are being used instead of integers and the engine sometimes doesn't render surfaces fitting then. I could solve this at known locations by texturing the regions that are between the brushes and shouldn't be visible at all but that would mean some extra polygons that do little but have an impact on performance. And since some people have complained about lower than average FPS I don't think that would be worth it. You could try to solve this on your side by enabling antialising with "r_ext_multisample 4".

Imperfect lighting 1&2:
I find this ugly, too, but I can do little about it since trem uses static lighting. For the back side of the elevator car I might change the shaft so that the car is lit orange when it's in the lower position. The only alternative would be using external lightmaps and manually editing them in the GIMP after every release quality compile. That would be a huge pita.

Imperfect lighting 3:
Put on TODO.

Imperfect lighting 4:
This looks good with my (high quality) settings so I tend to leave it that way.


Thank you very much for your detailed review! :)

/dev/humancontroller

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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2012, 06:34:39 pm »
when the map "starts", the elevator door opens. the door should initially be opened instead.
This happens due to the complex, super hacky way the elevator is done and I kind of like it. It gives the map some lively preamble.
you do realize that the "preamble" will only be played when the map is loaded locally, right?
the shape of the rounded stair steps are quite fancy, but noone in real life makes stairs that have visible holes when viewed orthogonally from the top. consider adding depth to the stair pieces, if that won't look worse.
Well facilities in real life have doors to the outer world, too. I think the stairs are not my biggest problem when it comes to realism. From the gameplay perspective bigger holes enable humans to shoot through more easily and since the map is currently biased towards the aliens that sounds like a good feature to me.
then make the steps (partially) grate-based.
also, out-of-context answer detected.
in the long hall, what do the grates on the walls protect the walls from? the grating there is fancy, but illogical.
in the front hall, there's a metal cover removed from the wall. is that a computer panel and a big fucking floodlight hidden inside a wall?
Yes it is and yes it's all for the fanciness. Did you notice the big pipes at the ceiling of front storage form a circle? Ha! This is even more senseless. So even though you are totally right with your observations I see no way this map will ever be realistic and logical. If it was a painting there would be some intellectual explanation to all of this so think of my map as a piece of art and imagine the grating shall express anxiety. ;D
the map can become very logical under my supervision. in the long hall, the alcove coupled with the monitor looks like a briefing area (or a movie room). replacing the grates on the walls with boards (material: cork) for sticky notes, and perhaps adding another such alcove would add uniqueness and explainability to the map design. for the hidden floodlight, you could delete the removed wall piece, delete the computer, and open the other cover (which should also have only a floodlight); that would look good and explainable.
for artistic purposes, the map should contain an absurd amount of logical errors. In small quantities, the errors only point towards careless/amateur mapping.
perhaps the elevator would be more appealing if parts of its walls were replaced with grating.
Yes that would look cool. The problem is the static lighting and the fact that it would still be illuminated bright orange when going by the blue lights. I might experiment with it but chances are that it will stay as it is.
(1) = crappy lighting + opaque walls = worst.
(2) = crappy lighting + semi-transparent walls = intermediate.
(3) = good lighting + opaque walls = intermediate.
(4) = good lighting + semi-transparent walls = best.
note: (2) > (1).
the blue-lit areas are subject to change anyway, as you said.
i repeat: use texture packs.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Most of the map is made with evillair's textures and I agree they are in every trem map. The reason I used them anyway is that the sets are, apart from being low definition, very good.
thanks for contributing another map using the overused textures
stocked textures get boring over time. there is a lot of free, epic texture packs out there to use.
also, not all textures are epic. for example, the floor texture with the diagonal squares (also used a lot on ATCS) is a big fucking piece of shit.
To your "void" screenshots:
This isn't really a hole to the void since otherwise the map wouldn't even compile. I think the problem is that with diagonal brushes real numbers are being used instead of integers and the engine sometimes doesn't render surfaces fitting then. I could solve this at known locations by texturing the regions that are between the brushes and shouldn't be visible at all but that would mean some extra polygons that do little but have an impact on performance. And since some people have complained about lower than average FPS I don't think that would be worth it. You could try to solve this on your side by enabling antialising with "r_ext_multisample 4".
whether the void point behind the grate is a "hole" is a matter of definition, but void is visible there nontheless, and one should attempt to fix that case. but the void points next to the ventilation shafts are really big and look like mapping errors. also, adding 20 polygons (to fix those holes) will have a neligible impact on performance.
anti-aliasing is a non-solution and a non-workaround: it does nothing to cover the void. on a side-note, my current video drivers don't support anti-aliasing.
Imperfect lighting 1&2:
I find this ugly, too, but I can do little about it since trem uses static lighting. For the back side of the elevator car I might change the shaft so that the car is lit orange when it's in the lower position. The only alternative would be using external lightmaps and manually editing them in the GIMP after every release quality compile. That would be a huge pita.
another workaround is to add lights to the elevator: the bottom of the elevator should contain 2 disc-shaped bumps which can connect to the 2 cylinders at the bottom, and (the discs) should have lights at the sides (but not at the bottoms), thus always lighting the bottom of the elevator except for the bottoms of the discs.

new notes:

some grating is doubled (see the attachment). this adds almost no value.

PS: new name choices will be presented S00N(TM).

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2012, 07:39:09 pm »
you do realize that the "preamble" will only be played when the map is loaded locally, right?
I know that. So either it's cool or it doesn't hurt. (Belive me if you were me you wouldn't want to touch that fubar elevator logic if you got it working once!)

the map can become very logical under my supervision. in the long hall, the alcove coupled with the monitor looks like a briefing area (or a movie room). replacing the grates on the walls with boards (material: cork) for sticky notes, and perhaps adding another such alcove would add uniqueness and explainability to the map design. for the hidden floodlight, you could delete the removed wall piece, delete the computer, and open the other cover (which should also have only a floodlight); that would look good and explainable.
If I'm going to make the setting more realistic I will consider this. Currently other stuff (especially gameplay and performance) has a higher priority so I will probably not work on such things before Beta 4/Release 1.

(1) = crappy lighting + opaque walls = worst.
(2) = crappy lighting + semi-transparent walls = intermediate.
(3) = good lighting + opaque walls = intermediate.
(4) = good lighting + semi-transparent walls = best.
note: (2) > (1).
the blue-lit areas are subject to change anyway, as you said.
Ok, I will see what I can do. The ele shaft will probably have some adjustments anyway so I will try out new lighting on the fly.

whether the void point behind the grate is a "hole" is a matter of definition, but void is visible there nontheless, and one should attempt to fix that case. but the void points next to the ventilation shafts are really big and look like mapping errors. also, adding 20 polygons (to fix those holes) will have a neligible impact on performance.
If it's primarily these few regions I will fix it.

another workaround is to add lights to the elevator: the bottom of the elevator should contain 2 disc-shaped bumps which can connect to the 2 cylinders at the bottom, and (the discs) should have lights at the sides (but not at the bottoms), thus always lighting the bottom of the elevator except for the bottoms of the discs.
This is an excellent idea! I will try that.

some grating is doubled (see the attachment). this adds almost no value.
Noted on TODO.

PS: new name choices will be presented S00N(TM).
Now that I did a public release I won't change the name anymore. Sorry for that. :(

Regarding the stairs: I guess I like them the way they are. However, the ones in the rear storage might get removed completely since I'm thinking about a new concept for the default human base. Not sure though. Tests have shown that you can build a few good bases and a whole lot of crap bases there.

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
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Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2012, 08:12:02 pm »
you do realize that the "preamble" will only be played when the map is loaded locally, right?
I know that. So either it's cool or it doesn't hurt. (Belive me if you were me you wouldn't want to touch that fubar elevator logic if you got it working once!)
it's actually WRONG. you can say that you won't fix it because it's difficult to fix; other arguments are weaker.
PS: new name choices will be presented S00N(TM).
Now that I did a public release I won't change the name anymore. Sorry for that. :(
you are probably `Ishq/kharnov/etc. in disguise.

Celestial_Rage

  • Posts: 636
  • Turrets: +120/-8
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2012, 10:41:24 pm »
you are probably `Ishq/kharnov/etc. in disguise.

Oh, you flatter him!

On topic: Nice map Viech. I had a pretty fun game on it today.
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" ~Mark Twain

/dev/humancontroller

  • Posts: 1033
  • Turrets: +1002/-383
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2012, 10:48:21 pm »
you are probably `Ishq/kharnov/etc. in disguise.

Oh, you flatter him!
not at all, you little assfuck.

ULTRA Random ViruS

  • Posts: 924
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    • ZdrytchX's reference website
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2012, 02:31:36 pm »
you are probably `Ishq/kharnov/etc. in disguise.

Oh, you flatter him!
not at all, you little assfuck.
Careful there, some people exist in this world love others when being abused...

E-Mxp

  • Posts: 722
  • Turrets: +27/-10
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2012, 01:22:07 am »
This maps looks simply amazing, lots of detail, the barrel going up and down, good stuff!

Keep up the good work!!

Viech

  • Posts: 43
  • Turrets: +2/-0
Re: Parpax (Beta 2)
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2012, 02:05:49 pm »
The quotes below are taken from this game log.

Quote from: Tremulant.ddos
practically every aspect of this map is a deathtrap for humans
To understand your position I need more details. I'm aware that Beta 2 is biased towards the alien team and I think the main reason is the human default which I admit has a very bad design, gameplay wise. I'm currently replacing it with a completely new room which shall be easier for humans to defend without the need to constantly camp it. Hopefully this will have a good impact on balance and reward more aggressive playing styles. If it's mainly the elevator you are criticising, see below.

To throw some US1 statistics at you:

TeamWinsKillsDeaths
Aliens1014542332
Humans720451629

This means aliens currently win 59% of all matches but humans make 58% of all kills. This is comparable to the most popular map ATCS where aliens win 61% of all matches and humans make 56% of all kills. So while I think the humans should win more matches I would dispute the whole map being a deathtrap for humans. Of course these stats where generated from only a few matches and time might prove me wrong. Let's wait for Beta 3 and see if humans need a safer environment.

Quote from: Tremulant.ddos
viech doesn't seem to understand that the lift is never going to be enjoyable with aliens camping in it
I noticed in the public matches that with a decent number of players the elevator is a really dangerous path for both teams, which was the desired behavior. Taking it should always result in direct confrontation and losses on both sides. This is why I designed the stairs as a longer way with the ability to retreat and the vents as a short path for smaller aliens and light armor + jetpack who would die fast in elevator fights. In Beta 1 it was criticised that the hole between elevator and upper storage would allow poison dretches to enter the car multiple times which is the reason why I removed that hole and left the entrance at upper fork (the area after the upper end of the stairs) as the only entrance to the elevator shaft from the upper levels. To have an advantage over the elevator, aliens now need to place a forward booster inside elevator room while humans have to build forward turrets in front storage (which is going to be renamed to lower storage since the human default isn't a storage room anymore).
If you think that the elevator is still biased towards the aliens please tell me your improvement ideas! My goal is to have a balanced gpp map and I will take all kind of changes into consideration until Parpax hopefully satisfies competitive requirements at some point in time.

Quote from: Tremulant.ddos
i appear to have fallen into a vent system whilst wearing a bsuit
This is why I have a cage built around the holes ... what are you doing? :D