Author Topic: So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).  (Read 24518 times)

Stof

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2006, 05:10:17 pm »
Quote from: "temple"
If you kill the overmind, everything else is happen stance.  Sure, if your team sucks and allows a roaming tyrant to maul everyone over and over, you're screwed.  With the OM down, aliens (should) stop attacking the base in fear of dying and becoming a dretch.  There will be nothing to stop you from finding the eggs.  If a human team can't supress grangers from putting a BIG ASS OVERMIND back up, they deserve to lose.

I play Aliens all the time and I know what it is like to lose an OM.  Eggs, well, you will lose eggs and pray humans can't find them.  But an OM is hard to hide and losing it forces aliens to play conservative or they become dretches.  IFyou  knock the OM out, you don't have much to stop you from taking out the eggs.  But trying to take out the eggs with the OM up means you have everything to worry about.

I don't think we are talking of the same thing. During SD, aliens care far less for OM than during the normal game. During SD, alien base is far less often undefended than during the rest of the game. As a lone human, you'll be lucky to have enouth time to kill the OM because of all the acid tubes and the tyrant/adv goon defending the base. Killing the OM during SD is a suicide operation, and they will replace it nearly on the spot! I have better things to do than suicide my cash to kill something that aliens will replace in a few seconds. Killing eggs will greatly increase the chances of victory, and killing turrets will make the next attack much easier. Killing OM will very often have zero effect on the aliens.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

temple

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2006, 08:48:22 pm »
Quote from: "Stof"
Quote from: "temple"
If you kill the overmind, everything else is happen stance.  Sure, if your team sucks and allows a roaming tyrant to maul everyone over and over, you're screwed.  With the OM down, aliens (should) stop attacking the base in fear of dying and becoming a dretch.  There will be nothing to stop you from finding the eggs.  If a human team can't supress grangers from putting a BIG ASS OVERMIND back up, they deserve to lose.

I play Aliens all the time and I know what it is like to lose an OM.  Eggs, well, you will lose eggs and pray humans can't find them.  But an OM is hard to hide and losing it forces aliens to play conservative or they become dretches.  IFyou  knock the OM out, you don't have much to stop you from taking out the eggs.  But trying to take out the eggs with the OM up means you have everything to worry about.

I don't think we are talking of the same thing. During SD, aliens care far less for OM than during the normal game. During SD, alien base is far less often undefended than during the rest of the game. As a lone human, you'll be lucky to have enouth time to kill the OM because of all the acid tubes and the tyrant/adv goon defending the base. Killing the OM during SD is a suicide operation, and they will replace it nearly on the spot! I have better things to do than suicide my cash to kill something that aliens will replace in a few seconds. Killing eggs will greatly increase the chances of victory, and killing turrets will make the next attack much easier. Killing OM will very often have zero effect on the aliens.

I know what kind of stupid stuff goes on during most games.  This is showing how lame games are.  When the OM drops, humans should rush.  The consequences of that strategy is so jarring, most aliens don't realize why they lose when the OM falls.  The only problem most aliens think about is losing eggs.  I bet most aliens don't realize stop attacking when they lose the OM.  I have played many games when the OM gets nailed and the alien doesn't realize the consequences.  I think the biggest reason why human teams win when they do win is that aliens don't have enough experience losing and have to think about why they lose as much as human have losing thrown in their face.  All aliens think about is losing eggs or feeding.  

For me, as human, if I can nail the OM....just go back and clean up the rest of the evolved aliens while looking for eggs.  Before long, its obvious they can't do jack and any human can walk the map freely.  At this point, just kill off any alien structures so that only the eggs will be showing up on the radar.  They will be basically staring at you at this point.  The base is safe again (Dretches won't be kiling the Reactor) and only a roaming evolved alien can really pose a threat.  Its easy for rifle totting humans to clean up any attempts to rebuild the OM or any running grangers.  

Play a granger and lose the OM at any time during a game and you will learn that the alien game revolves around the OM.  

But this is not even considered.  People just think about eggs.  Its more suicidial to go for eggs while the OM is up because you got all the tyrants and advanced goons raping you in the process.  Credit for credit, I've learned to go for anything between me and the OM and then the OM directly.  The only time I go for eggs first is if I'm in a position to sweep the alien base at once and I think all the eggs are present.  Then, you go for the eggs, then OM so the aliens don't get the 'OM is dying' message and come defend it.

Stof

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2006, 12:08:12 am »
Excuse me but when humans are reduced to doing sneak attacks on the alien base during SD ( which is exactly the situation we started talking about ), going after the OM is a waste of time and credits. Killing eggs is much better, if not because they cannot replace them and it allows you to win during SD, but also because it places the aliens in a very dangerous situation once they are reduced to 1-2 egg ( no more see of dretch to stop us from nuking the alien base )
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Radiohead

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2006, 01:31:01 am »
To me, the aliens have a slight advantage for SD, for one, sometimes humans get trapped and are forced to camp while goons and tyrants are outside waiting. And even if you get through the tyrant-goon process you'll probably have like 30 health left. And don't forget about those hives, they will kill you!

holyknight

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2006, 01:36:46 am »
Quote from: "Radiohead"
To me, the aliens have a slight advantage for SD, for one, sometimes humans get trapped and are forced to camp while goons and tyrants are outside waiting. And even if you get through the tyrant-goon process you'll probably have like 30 health left. And don't forget about those hives, they will kill you!

that's why nade+suiciding is for :P

jal

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2006, 01:53:52 am »
Quote from: "temple"
For me, as human, if I can nail the OM....just go back and clean up the rest of the evolved aliens while looking for eggs.

May I ask what are aliens supposed to be doing all along this proccess? Look how you kill them? Do they let you pass the several times you'd need to go back to reload the ammo needed to do all those things? Sounds good for S2, but for SD it sounds just like a dream.

Radiohead

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2006, 02:08:51 am »
Quote from: "jal"
May I ask what are aliens supposed to be doing all along this proccess? Look how you kill them? Do they let you pass the several times you'd need to go back to reload the ammo needed to do all those things? Sounds good for S2, but for SD it sounds just like a dream.


Well what I always do is when I destroy the OM, start doing your "ATTACK NOW" binds. And do whatever you can before you die. I would always run around until back up comes and then I run to base. Now you just wipe out the remains.

temple

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So here's the problem with tremulous (statistics-heavy).
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2006, 03:15:33 am »
Quote from: "jal"
Quote from: "temple"
For me, as human, if I can nail the OM....just go back and clean up the rest of the evolved aliens while looking for eggs.

May I ask what are aliens supposed to be doing all along this proccess? Look how you kill them? Do they let you pass the several times you'd need to go back to reload the ammo needed to do all those things? Sounds good for S2, but for SD it sounds just like a dream.

Aliens are camping outside the human base.