2/24 Tremradio impressions?

[DarkRogue]

Interesting changes, will be fun to get use to but from a peanut gallery point of view:

1) Healing aura for Basilisk and slowing spray - interesting change. Increased grab time is great however the more important but unmentioned: will it still be possible for obscenely high mouse sensitivity users to pull a 180 turn while grabbed and shot gun the basilisk? Similarly does the jetpack still break grabs and trapper sticks?

2) Mara change sounds good. Regular mara could use a slight attack speed increase however.

3) Goon pounce more use? FUCK THAT. It's already insta death for anything not in a battlesuit (and even then it lops off a nice chunk of health). It can be re-charged MID POUNCE to boot. Pounce needs nerfing not improving.

4) Tyrant nerf also a welcome change. Though will have to see how this new width/range change truely effects theier lethality, from how it's currently described it still sounds like they can hit a mile away which yes by their size is understandible but alot of deaths seem to be out in left field..

5) NErfing turrets. Simply don't. An experienced dretch can already whiz past most turrets if not kill individually placed ones. If anything turret/tesla health needs boosting, especially teslas which are a joke for any goon+ evolution to walk in kill one of five and live.

6) Also unmentioned: there were rumors of an ammo belt floating around. Will bullet using guns benefit from extended clips/magazines/belts like energy weapons do with the battery pack? Or is this a baseless rumor that will never happen?

[Norfenstein]

1) Healing aura for Basilisk and slowing spray - interesting change. Increased grab time is great however the more important but unmentioned: will it still be possible for obscenely high mouse sensitivity users to pull a 180 turn while grabbed and shot gun the basilisk? Similarly does the jetpack still break grabs and trapper sticks?

Increasing the grab time was sort of half about compensating for the grab's reliance on FPS. I'm told fixing that is a big job though, and we have to prioritize. I assume the jetpack is still a problem at the moment. The sensitivity thing was brought up before as well but should be less of an issue to fix; I'll have to make sure it doesn't get forgotten.

3) Goon pounce more use? FUCK THAT. It's already insta death for anything not in a battlesuit (and even then it lops off a nice chunk of health). It can be re-charged MID POUNCE to boot. Pounce needs nerfing not improving.

Nonsense, the pounce is only insta death for completely unarmoured humans and battlesuits take five fully charged hits to kill (sans medkit). Right now the bite is still more useful in more cases than it should be; adding something to the pounce besides a damage boost would keep the bite useful at close range and make the goon less miserable against groups of humans, which I think it needs.

5) NErfing turrets. Simply don't. An experienced dretch can already whiz past most turrets if not kill individually placed ones. If anything turret/tesla health needs boosting, especially teslas which are a joke for any goon+ evolution to walk in kill one of five and live.

Turrets aren't being nerfed. An experienced anything can't get past many common turret set-ups in normal conditions (humans that know what's going on) and at the same time poorly placed turrets are worthless. We need turrets that are more flexible for human builders, but only making them stronger in some regard would exacerbate their unfairness to aliens. So to make them actually more useful they have to be changed somehow. I think giving skilled players a chance to dodge some of their fire is a reasonable way to do that.

6) Also unmentioned: there were rumors of an ammo belt floating around. Will bullet using guns benefit from extended clips/magazines/belts like energy weapons do with the battery pack? Or is this a baseless rumor that will never happen?

Not really necessary any more and would make energy weapons less interesting, so I don't support it.

[janev]

The most important things for 1.2 imo are to balance clustered turret, tyrants in 1v1 as well as making it not completely one sided when teamwork is involved. If that is too hard i'll settle for current balance with nerfed turrets

[Stof]

Nonsense, the pounce is only insta death for completely unarmoured humans and battlesuits take five fully charged hits to kill (sans medkit). Right now the bite is still more useful in more cases than it should be; adding something to the pounce besides a damage boost would keep the bite useful at close range and make the goon less miserable against groups of humans, which I think it needs.

With the pounce improvement and the relative turret nerf, it feels like stage 1 humans will have an even harder time as soon as good alien players get their dragoon.

[janev]

Nonsense, the pounce is only insta death for completely unarmoured humans and battlesuits take five fully charged hits to kill (sans medkit). Right now the bite is still more useful in more cases than it should be; adding something to the pounce besides a damage boost would keep the bite useful at close range and make the goon less miserable against groups of humans, which I think it needs.

With the pounce improvement and the relative turret nerf, it feels like stage 1 humans will have an even harder time as soon as good alien players get their dragoon.

Don't forget the regen/range nerf to goon....

[Stof]

Nonsense, the pounce is only insta death for completely unarmoured humans and battlesuits take five fully charged hits to kill (sans medkit). Right now the bite is still more useful in more cases than it should be; adding something to the pounce besides a damage boost would keep the bite useful at close range and make the goon less miserable against groups of humans, which I think it needs.

With the pounce improvement and the relative turret nerf, it feels like stage 1 humans will have an even harder time as soon as good alien players get their dragoon.

Don't forget the regen/range nerf to goon....

Regen is just the matter of adding and egg/basilisk near the human base. Nothing major in the end. Worse even since with a Basi, you get the Booster/Tyrant regen available even at stage 1 and in a form that is much easier to handle in the front line than the booster.

Attack spread of the goon has been nerfed a little but I still fear to see what a good goon player will be able to do with it.

[DarkRogue]

Nonsense, the pounce is only insta death for completely unarmoured humans and battlesuits take five fully charged hits to kill (sans medkit). Right now the bite is still more useful in more cases than it should be; adding something to the pounce besides a damage boost would keep the bite useful at close range and make the goon less miserable against groups of humans, which I think it needs.

Indeed. So if you make pounce better in s1. You plan to make humans a little hardier to compensate for the already obscene imbalance goons in s1 causes? Honestly norf while I can understand goon vs experienced group of human players failing miserably, in AVERAGE games that good group of humans doesn't exist. 9 times out of 10 the goon can rape entire gangs of humans with MINIMAL dmg to itself.

Not solely because of pounce true, chomp is the preferred weapon. However pounce is what gets you close to use chomp.

But if determined to make pounce better could you at least consider pushing goons to S2. In s1 it simply won't give humans a chance in hell in regular pick up games.

[Norfenstein]

Well I had hoped the goon bite width reduction would balance the goon for stage 1. Have you been playing on tjw's? I don't know if it's come down enough yet, or if good players will still completely break it (tyrant still needs a lot of playtesting too). When I first thought of this enhancement for the pounce I wasn't sure if it should only be for the advanced goon or both, but now I'm starting to think the goon can just stay good at dueling and focus on making the marauder the crowd breaker. I'm thinking about the barbs getting (minor) splash damage just to make them more fun/easier to use, but I don't expect it to affect the balance.

[DarkRogue]

nope haven't tried tjws yet. Maras are definately a crowd breaker. When one of them get in close yer forced to scatter for room to move and dodge. adv mara slash is just savage at its speed

Goon chomp is getting a width reduction as well? In retrospect though I think this particular change really won't affect experienced goons. Most who are use to using goons for head chomping can pretty much next to always get direct shots in but it will be interesting to see if it changes the powerhouse that goons tend to be by reducing the number that get by on using that width to slaughter humans.

As I said originally is gonna be fun to get use to

[Stof]

The same reason why Tyrant is "overpowered" in melee applies here. A good Tyrant player will kill anything s3 humans can put out that gets in range in 3 hits at worse and can still take a huge beating. Goons will kill anything s1 humans can put out that gets in range in 1 hit and can still take a beating, although they are weaker.

Now, goons have half the life of a Tyrant but humans do not have access to the pulse at stage 1. So one could consider that the "Tyrant vs s3" is 80% more resistant that the "goon vs s1". But considering the later is 200% more efficient at killing ...

The only difficulty is against the human base and the reasons for that are evident : turrets cannot receive headshots, turrets never miss and humans cannot equip turrets with battlesuits. So, at s1 vs s1 you have aliens that are master human killers but poor against human bases, and at s3 vs s3 you have aliens that are very good human killers and strong against human bases. Hence all the camping by both teams at stage 1.

[temple]

The same reason why Tyrant is "overpowered" in melee applies here. A good Tyrant player will kill anything s3 humans can put out that gets in range in 3 hits at worse and can still take a huge beating. Goons will kill anything s1 humans can put out that gets in range in 1 hit and can still take a beating, although they are weaker.

Now, goons have half the life of a Tyrant but humans do not have access to the pulse at stage 1. So one could consider that the "Tyrant vs s3" is 80% more resistant that the "goon vs s1". But considering the later is 200% more efficient at killing ...

The only difficulty is against the human base and the reasons for that are evident : turrets cannot receive headshots, turrets never miss and humans cannot equip turrets with battlesuits. So, at s1 vs s1 you have aliens that are master human killers but poor against human bases, and at s3 vs s3 you have aliens that are very good human killers and strong against human bases. Hence all the camping by both teams at stage 1.

I agree.

My whole opinion is just that the humans would be just as overpowered if you made the Luci cannon faster for S3 purposes and if the Shotgun had better range for S1 purposes.

IMHO, its the combination of high hitpoints and fast, high damage possible that makes dragoons and tyrants too powerful.

As I have stated in other threads, if the human weapons had 2nd fire feature that could vary or cause more damage, the game would be balanced more.  Instead of taking away power from the Alien team, just make the Human team more powerful to match.