Open The Sky Project(Images!)

[Redsky]

On ground pounce should give more speed right away

good idea, more speed than jump+flapwings

About glide... I think it should glide in the direction you were last moving (if flying is enabled) with the speed you have gained, and if you press a button then it turns that way (if look down and press+hold forward then it "dives"; will lose speed with fast turns).

Listen it sounds more like a fletch/firefly flight model... you see there are two things that make this project specjal:
a)it doesnt accelerate constantly whan some button is pressed-good i think for an insect, like for eg. dragonfly.(so called active flight)
this alien is lika a big bird - it should flap wing from time to time to gain a speed and than use wings to glide(gliding stands for not-active flight)
b)the idea is to use a lifting force of the wings(formula in this thread), with using inertia(its moving all same direction if not changed by anything) and air resistance(slowing down-slowly). (And dont forget about gravitation)
And by using it all we can create a feeling of realistic flight. So that whan you play with it you could say: "wow this rox, i love it-its not a dretch with j-pack, its like a new game"... and i hope this may be a way to devs hearts
Spit-ok, using jump button for flying/pouncing-no way. I think flight should be controled only by mouse- and RMB should stand for flaping wings(once)
Its good to know you like this animation, though it looks crapy on this video-normaly it looks lot better(and its seems that i done some mess in sideway walk animation whan i did extending for rendering).Thanks^^

[==Troy==]

I am not more in the coding this idea than just give a hand with decision of physics of it + a bit of implementation help. Which I am sure benchmashine will be able to do without me.


I have got a few questions for you, which are :

1) What do you want for the flying to be able to do? Meaning how it will fly?
    a) Jet-plane style
    b) Helicopter style
    c) mix of both
    d) Jetpack style

X-axis is going from back to front
Y - side to side
Z - top bottom

a) Jet plane style will mean that alien will not be able to stop in the air and only proceed with flight or fall down

In this case your controls are :

W - S     trottle control (X-axis speed)
A - D      roll control (X-axis turn)
Mouse left-right  steering (Z-axis turn)
Mouse up-down  steering (Y-axis turn)

In this case the trottle control has to be fixed since otherwise you will not be able to adjust your speed.

b) Helicopter approach

W-S trottle control (Z-axis)
A-D steering (Z-axis turn)
M left-right roll (X-axis turn)
up-down steering (Y-axis turn)

or same as in case of a.

c) Mix of jetplane and helicopter

The approach is the same as helicopter but the rightclick activates a booster in X-axis direction.

d) same as human jetpack.


In case of d there is no need for coding at whatsoever.

Case A is a bit more interesting, since you have to account a few forces, but its just a simple physics model, which C++ can handle with ease (if you need code for this one I can provide it, but without debugging, since I havent coded in C++ for about 2 years)

Case B is simpler than case A, but the principle is the same.

Case C is A+B coding :roll:

Personally Id loved to see the flight model as in case C, since it will give a huge range for dogfights and tricks that can be done.

Another thing which you might consider is having the max-speed checks not only for Z axis (falling down) but for all 3 dimensions, meaning that if you will fly into the wall on a high speed, the only thing will be left is a bit of green blood there ).

[CreatureofHell]

Do you have to put it in a .zip or .rar archive or can you just post the file instead? Or maybe just a screenshot then if you can't do anything else? Sorry about all the trouble I'm causing.  :cry:

[Redsky]

i dont have much time now so ill just type in what i believe is the best for the moment:
c) selection is the best, but i would set controls to:
A-D                           Z-axis turn
left-right mouse          X-axis turn
RMB                          accelerate
up-down mouse          Y-axis turn
speed is not constant(it slowing down as it flyes)
and setting S as brake  would be fine too
ill add something later coz i dont have time now

Thanks a lot

[UniqPhoeniX]

Well, only with mouse you can't fully control flight...
Accelerate constantly? I meant it would take a few seconds to gain normal speed from slow speed, then it would keep that speed until something slows it down (air resistance/S button/ fast turns/flying up). And I said it would start to lose height with slow speed and that minimum speed won't be 0 = it can't just float).
+ some birds can hover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_flight#Hovering

The reason I prefer the controls in my post, is that:
1) you don't have to fly directly where you are spiting (which is where enemys are)
2) you can slowly fly in circles and wait for a chance to attack, looking on the ground while not flying down
3) holding space would be a speed boost, you can fly without it, otherwise most people don't have enough buttons on mouse for all attacks .

I guess you just misunderstood some part, to me it seems we only can't agree about controls.
What do you think about electric attack? It would be useful for taking down jetards without having to hit them directly.

After reading Troy's post I'll try to make myself more clear:
So, basically: LMB is main attack, RMB is electric attack, MMB is caustic spit. F is gesture.
on ground: moves like dretch (even wallwalking) except holding jump works like goon pounce (+noise).
in air I prefer choice A with some changes:
W-S : throttle control/accelerate in looking direction (X-axis speed)
A-D : roll control (X-axis turn) (which causes "strafe")
Mouse left-right: steering (Z-axis turn)
Mouse up-down: camera up-down (Y-axis turn)
Jump boosts (X-axis speed)
To steer down: look down and hold W.
EDIT: it could also be that moving mouse left-right doesn't turn either (or if you hold W it would always steer with mouse).
then: to steer: look where you want to go and hold W.

Can't fully stop, but can change speed which changes lift, flying down accelerates as well and flying up slows down.
Also, only alien who gets damage from falling is Granger, this alien could be used to hit humans on high speed which causes more damage.

[The MC Horton Crankfire]

As we can see even now, one of the benefits of having this class around would be that its flying controls would imply a lot of strategies very unique to the class, not just another alien model and a gimmicky idea. I personally look forward to divebombing from the top of pushcannon. :P

[==Troy==]

Hmm Usakiller, I was personally taking the idea of case C from ETQW, which allows you to do quite a lot even without the prime ability to look down but not fly there.

Strafe is Y-axis speed control, not X-axis turn :wink:

If you are going to implement something which will allow you to "look down while flying in circles" will require HELL a lot more controls, since you will have to control the direction of your flight (it is not a helicopter if you say its case A, it cannot stop), and you have to control the direction of your look... Personally I dont have 2 mice on my table . Or it will be simply a case D.


In the case C, you have got both heli control + ability to shoot forwards. Which is more than enough for the normal flight control and to kill those fartfly humies :roll:

[UniqPhoeniX]

Strafe is Y-axis speed control, not X-axis turn

I know, I meant that X-axis turn and lift would cause strafe. (3rd pic page 1, lower scheme:
"horizontal rotation -> X-axis turn -> effect the lifting force angle")

I didn't mean that you could fly in circles without looking forward, just that you can look down, then look forward and turn, and look down again.

If possible benmachine or someone can code a few different possibilities and then test those and choose the best.

[fleash eater]

If possible benmachine or someone can code a few different possibilities and then test those and choose the best.

    Test? ill be happpy to "Test" it after benmachine codes it

plz i really want to try it

[==Troy==]

Strafe is Y-axis speed control, not X-axis turn

I know, I meant that X-axis turn and lift would cause strafe. (3rd pic page 1, lower scheme:
"horizontal rotation -> X-axis turn -> effect the lifting force angle")

I didn't mean that you could fly in circles without looking forward, just that you can look down, then look forward and turn, and look down again.

If possible benmachine or someone can code a few different possibilities and then test those and choose the best.

I dont even think that there will be a need to code all the different cases, since is general physics model, and then just a set controls to alter the forces/angles there. I am starting to code something like that, but again, I have no idea how to implement that into Trem and I will definitely have problems compiling it.

[CreatureofHell]

Where is the barrel roll? Just a button where you do a barrel roll would be so fun!

EDIT- Don't spam?? I am giving ideas not spamming. Spam is unhelpful posts. I was giving ideas i say again.

[Redsky]

Where is the barrel roll? Just a button where you do a barrel roll would be so fun!

DON'T SPAM :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
thank you
(Waiting for the weekend to start becouse i dont realy have much time. But as soon as it starts ill do some things and answer some questions)

No PM from benmachine yet

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

Good to see this is rolling again!
Itll be worth the trouble I believe.

[benmachine]

I'm lazy :( but I finally replied.

With regards to the controls, I think consistency is important. Notice especially that every other player class looks around using the mouse in the same way. You can abuse the movement keys if you like, but I would advise keeping the mouse look unchanged.

[==Troy==]

I'm lazy but I finally replied.

With regards to the controls, I think consistency is important. Notice especially that every other player class looks around using the mouse in the same way. You can abuse the movement keys if you like, but I would advise keeping the mouse look unchanged.

It would be nice to talk to you online benmachine, since it will take quite a long time to figure all of this out on pms or forum

But in any way controls are not so important, since if you (we) code the general "engine" for the flyer, the controls can be set as anyone likes.

[benmachine]

It would be nice to talk to you online benmachine, since it will take quite a long time to figure all of this out on pms or forum :)

IRC is your best bet for that. You can PM me at any time day or night on freenode (although I won't always reply for some hours, you can /whois to check if I'm away) and I also have a presence on quakenet.

I just had another thought - Redsky, remember that we are unlikely to be able to change the bounding box of the alien during play, so if you want it pitching/rolling dramatically or wallwalking you're going to need to fit it into a cubic bbox like the dretch, granger and basilisk.

[Plague Bringer]

Just putting it out there, Risujin already has code done for the Fletch. Perhaps you could use that?

[Redsky]

I just had another thought - Redsky, remember that we are unlikely to be able to change the bounding box of the alien during play, so if you want it pitching/rolling dramatically or wallwalking you're going to need to fit it into a cubic bbox like the dretch, granger and basilisk.

Thats not a good information for me . Isnt there any way of doing a virtual 2 objects(cubes, one in head/torso, other in abdomen) inside Vandal that would make a rotating solid - they wouldnt rotate themselfs but just fly in circle whan vandal would look up/down?(coz side to side looking is normal, and X-rot dont need a rotaing solid becouse i think only [head+torso+abdomen] should take damage)
also about Vandal: i doubt that Risujin would be agree about using this model. It just doesnt fit and also it would be just a firefly in skin of vandal.

With regards to the controls, I think consistency is important. Notice especially that every other player class looks around using the mouse in the same way. You can abuse the movement keys if you like, but I would advise keeping the mouse look unchanged.

ok, if you think so than i agree, abuse movement keys than

PS:

Just putting it out there, Risujin already has code done for the Fletch. Perhaps you could use that?

No i dont think thats a good idea: model just doesnt fit and im not even sure if Risujin is going to let me use his codes... and dont forget that model is not perfect it still doesnt look too good  :cry: (no idea how to fix it)

[The MC Horton Crankfire]

Just putting it out there, Risujin already has code done for the Fletch. Perhaps you could use that?

But the fletch is more wasp-like, isn't it? You'd think it would be coded to fly differently than a gliding alien.

[Risujin]

Just putting it out there, Risujin already has code done for the Fletch. Perhaps you could use that?

But the fletch is more wasp-like, isn't it? You'd think it would be coded to fly differently than a gliding alien.

Chompers had very specific ideas for how to control the fletch. It is a gliding flier primarily but can flap its wings to fly higher and accelerate. Just pressing jump makes it flap and fly up, pressing space and a direction key makes it flap and move in that direction, holding space makes it glide. It's a lot of fun and has a nifty secondary attack.

[Redsky]

Ah, mr Risujin has visited my thread - im so glad :wink:
So Risujin, tell me what do you think of all work done so far? And how do you like design and controls? Please I (we) would like to know your opinion

[whitebear]

Ah, mr Risujin has visited my thread - im so glad

Oi! if you say something like that he just gets all full of himself and try to act like some professor with long beard and then he strokes his beard while giving "hmmm...." sound from time to time as if he were in deep thoughts.

[Death_First]

lol

[Redsky]

Ah, mr Risujin has visited my thread - im so glad

Oi! if you say something like that he just gets all full of himself and try to act like some professor with long beard and then he strokes his beard while giving "hmmm...." sound from time to time as if he were in deep thoughts.

Damn, whitebear you discouraged him from writing on my thread ... what now?
Maybe you, yourself could write how do you find what we have done so far?

[Risujin]

Ah, mr Risujin has visited my thread - im so glad :wink:
So Risujin, tell me what do you think of all work done so far? And how do you like design and controls? Please I (we) would like to know your opinion

Hmmmm..... *strokes beard* ... wait a second, I don't even have a beard!

I'm just judging from the screenshot 3 pages back but your model looks pretty good and is consistent with the existing models in Tremulous. You need to give it a good texture and the animations for it should be pretty straightforward (besides the wierdness for stuffing flight anims in there). I think you might as well move forward with your own model rather than digging up chompers'.

[Scotty]

I thought it would work like a marauder only it could glide after it jumped instead of bouncing off walls. You could also press space again to 'hop' in midair. When you moved the mouse in the x asis then the vandal (or whatever) would roll that way, as a way of steering.

[Redsky]

I thought it would work like a marauder only it could glide after it jumped instead of bouncing off walls. You could also press space again to 'hop' in midair. When you moved the mouse in the x asis then the vandal (or whatever) would roll that way, as a way of steering.

You know what? ITS A VERY GOOD IDEA, as im not sure if anyone could code the model id like to implement ...
As im looking backwards on this project it seems to me that it need more simplicity... as im thinking of it now: we dont have to make a X-roll at all, or we could add it later.
PS: where are the coding guyz who offered me help??? Speak to me. :wink:

[benmachine]

You know what? ITS A VERY GOOD IDEA, as im not sure if anyone could code the model id like to implement :) ...
As im looking backwards on this project it seems to me that it need more simplicity... as im thinking of it now: we dont have to make a X-roll at all, or we could add it later.
PS: where are the coding guyz who offered me help??? Speak to me. :wink:

I'm still here, but I'm a little busy and also I'm not quite clear what I'm supposed to do. Can I have an md3 to play with? It doesn't even have to be the model, just a box of the right size and I can start work.

[Redsky]

I'm still here, but I'm a little busy and also I'm not quite clear what I'm supposed to do. Can I have an md3 to play with? It doesn't even have to be the model, just a box of the right size and I can start work.

Good to hear that. Im not sure what You should do...(i dont know what is doing Troy right now...)
I was wondering what would you like to do? PM me!
Heres the model you asked for. Its still broken, it need shader or someone else to eksport it to .md3(not sure)
Making a rotating on all three axis model is possible but i dont know if you are to able to sacrifice so much time to make codes for it...
So simplified flight model is: not rotating alien model just camera, and lift would change by the angle of camera(model doesnt move). Of course alien model rotates just like others alien models - rolling only on one axis...  RMB works as accelerator(mid air pounce, just without charging it)... Get my point? What do you think of this?
PS. i added also texture that i started, but Olo is working on it right now Thanks olo
Edit: cant download model than click here

[fmart]

flying aliens is missing in tremulous One need to add
It is as good as jetpack so humans can not kill you