Tremulous with raytracing

[www.rweb.co.nr]

Is there a raytraced version of tremulous allready??
There is a mod for Quake 3 (http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~sidapohl/egoshooter/) What enables raytracing support to the game, so my question is... Is it possible to make the same with Tremulous?? Thanks!

[kevlarman]

*about 20 fps@36 GHz in 512x512 with 4xFSAA
i don't think we're raytracing tremulous any time soon.

[www.rweb.co.nr]

LOL, be patient, the tecnology avdvance very fast. But whats about Motionblur or depthblur? It is avaliable in DX10 and some games like Trackmania have the same function in DX9. This would be greate! A dretch has a limited view!
And... Quake4 engine is relased!!!!! Why dont we update Tremulous to the new quake 4 engine??? Well, I dont know realy how it can be done because I have no scripting idea but maybe somebody is able to do this here!? Hi all! ViRuS

[Rawr]

So is raytracing just basically dynamic lighting?
Adv.Shadows, reflections etc etc.?

[Taiyo.uk]

If posh graphics is what you want then you're better off porting trem to Xreal or EvolutionQ3, and even these engines aren't performance whores. Of course, code porting isn't the only work required in making such a move since none of the current content was made for engines with such capabilities. All of the 2D content will need modification if the various displacement/reflection/whatever mapping among other new graphics features are to be of any use.

But whats about Motionblur or depthblur? It is avaliable in DX10 and some games like Trackmania have the same function in DX9

Since when did tremulous use DX?

So is raytracing just basically dynamic lighting?

Read me.

[kevlarman]

LOL, be patient, the tecnology avdvance very fast. But whats about Motionblur or depthblur? It is avaliable in DX10 and some games like Trackmania have the same function in DX9. This would be greate! A dretch has a limited view!
And... Quake4 engine is relased!!!!! Why dont we update Tremulous to the new quake 4 engine??? Well, I dont know realy how it can be done because I have no scripting idea but maybe somebody is able to do this here!? Hi all! ViRuS

um, tremulous will never use DX10, since DX10 supports only one of the operating systems trem runs on (at least 3 by default, well over 10 if you spend a bit of time making it compile on the exotic ones)

[Odin]

Though it would be slow on modern gaming computers, it would be a spectacle to behold.

However, I think something like the Unified Lighting and Shadowing system like in Doom3(XreaL has something such as this) would be a much better alternative since it runs much faster than raytracing and still provides some of the same affects.

[DASPRiD]

You are talking about Stencil Shadows, and yes, that is, what XREAL uses, too.

Anyway, this (http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~sidapohl/egoshooter/) is really old, and requires a special raytrace card. It is no mod for Quake 3, but a project made by a german university. Before they developed the raytrace card, they needed a cluster of 28 computers to run this modified Quake 3 version.

[Taiyo.uk]

Whatever the case any such overhaul of the graphics system will mean porting away from IOQ3, which isn't a trivial task. Evolution Q3 claims to be a combination of IOQ3 and XreaL (apparently IOQ3 with XreaL's rendering) which may make porting easier.

Of course do we actually need this? Specifically does a large enough portion of the community want modernised graphics enough to justify the effort of implementing it?

[Rawr]

I

So is raytracing just basically dynamic lighting?

Read me.

Gee, I wonder where I got those pictures  :roll:

[Taiyo.uk]

Keep reading me until you understand then.

[Rawr]

I love you, but I still don't understand.  D:

[Taiyo.uk]

Keep reading me until you understand then.

[Rawr]

>:[

[Vector_Matt]

um, tremulous will never use DX10, since DX10 supports only one of the operating systems trem runs on (at least 3 by default, well over 10 if you spend a bit of time making it compile on the exotic ones)

Not necessarily. If trem on windows could use DX10, and trem on mac could use (whatever the DX equivalent on mac is), and trem on linux could use (Um... Advancce linux only graphics libraries?)

It could be optimized for each os.

[www.rweb.co.nr]

So finally what system does Tremulous use??? DirectX? Or OpenGL?


What I want to say is that some more spectacular effects couldnt be bad. So maybe somebody is able here to add som plugins to simulate motionblur or depthblur in what system Tremulous really use (DX or OpenGl...)


So.. somebody is able to compile a more spectacular and advanced graphis version of tremulous?? Well and what about advanced graphic simulation?? For example Trackmania from NADEO. This Game use DirectX 9 (DirectX 10 has in the graphic motor implented some effect like motion blur, whater effect and so on but DirectX 9 not so they must try to make a alternative) so its like having DX10 in DX9. Look at this images:



Greate whater reflection like raytracing aqua reflection.





A very nice sunshine reflection. And this in DX9!




A greate motionblur!




Wet asphalt reflectons.




The asphalt sunlight reflections are incredible! I don´t know how have they made this! But this ins´t static!!!! When the camera moves it goes with the sun





P.D: In all theese images the shadows look like Raytraced but they aren`t,  a greate mode to make goot graphics with low graphic consumption.

[Taiyo.uk]

Tremulous uses the Quake 3 engine which uses OpenGL as it's rendering backend. The asphalt reflections are done using the reflection-mapping techniques present in almost every modern game. They are not DX-specific - for example Doom3 and Quake 4 are GL based engines that have similar graphics capabilities.

Not necessarily. If trem on windows could use DX10, and trem on mac could use (whatever the DX equivalent on mac is), and trem on linux could use (Um... Advancce linux only graphics libraries?)

It could be optimized for each os.

Writing a DX backend for a  GL-only engine is a non-trivial task. OpenGL is stable and well supported on Windows, Linux and Macs (among other OSs), and the the performance difference between GL and DX is insignificant, especially for the Quake3 engine. There really isn't any reason to bloat the Tremulous code with multiple rendering backends. This will cause more problems that it solves.

The DX equivalent on macs and linux (for graphics at least) is OpenGL.

[www.rweb.co.nr]

Well, what I really wanted in the post is to show (simulated) raytracing and so. This int publicity for Trackmania but in this game there are many greate trick to simulate raytracing motion blur and so on. So maybe somebody knows about coding and is able to implant such effect (Like reflection-mapping techniques...) in Tremulous using of course OpenGL. Well, i will research more of the tricks (Techniques) they use to simulate such real effects with so few graphics usage with so real graphics (Maybe somebody know something about this techniques or/and can help me to know more about this tema). Somebody is able to code something like this in OpenGL??? And does the creatators of Tremulous allready exists?? What I mean are they even here? So maybe they can help. Thanks and Hi all, ViRuS

[Taiyo.uk]

As has been stated before, ports of Quake 3 with realtime lighting, shadowing, etc. already exist - see XreaL and EvoltionQ3. Porting trem to these engines will almost certainly involve less work than implementing these graphics features in the current codebase.

Then, once the code for these new features is in place, somebody has to make all of the displacement, reflection and other maps for all of the textures and skins used. Then the maps will need recompiling and possibly modification so that they suit a dynamic-lighting engine.

On a side note, the asphalt reflection in the screenshots can be partially simulated using a shader - tcGen environment will help you here.

[www.rweb.co.nr]

Is there allready such a better version of Tremulous??? And who is the creator of tremulous, do he continue devoleping tremulous??? Is somebod y able to aply  XreaL or EvoltionQ3 to Tremulous??

[tehOen]

Is there allready such a better version of Tremulous??? And who is the creator of tremulous, do he continue devoleping tremulous??? Is somebod y able to aply  XreaL or EvoltionQ3 to Tremulous??

yes(it was PITA) but evolutionq3 died and xreal is really slow moreover you need assets (maps should be redone, normal maps, specular maps) lots of assets

[Vector_Matt]

The DX equivalent on macs and linux (for graphics at least) is OpenGL.

So Windows is the odd one out, figures.

How difficult would it be to add bump mapping to trem? (I am assuming that it's mostly an opengl thing that wouldn't take much time. But if it would we can just wait for Quake4 to go open source in order to get nicer graphics.)

[Taiyo.uk]

if it would we can just wait for Quake4 to go open source

IP minefield. For starters Creative have a patent on the depth-fail shadowing method used in Doom3/Quake4.

On the topic of adding more effects, OpenArena 0.7 (which also uses IOQ3) has added bloom. Perhaps trem could also use this?

[Odin]

Why use DirectX when OpenGL3.0 is better?

www.rweb.co.nr: The game you showed uses HDR lighting to do that dynamic sunlight effect. All I want in Tremulous is HDR lighting and bump/normal mapping(and offloading more code onto the video card). We already have bloom lighting though a patch(but it's more of a evil hack than anything. Also, I don't think it does the effect through OpenGL, either).

I currently use the said bloom patch in my client I compiled by hand. It is FAR from done. An example of one of its bugs - Bloomed pixels on the sides of the screen blur into the opposite side, which is distracting because there are multiple lights just appearing out of nowhere. I'll show an example of this effect:

Notice the red light that is on the right edge of the screen. Only half of it is being shown on the screen. The bloom code is taking those bright pixels and is blooming it, and does it very well. However, the bloom effect is bleeding to the left side of the screen. To the player, this can look like an enemy coming up on the radar(for aliens) due to it being just inside of his peripheral vision, and you won't know the difference until you look, distracting you for half a second, just long enough that it gets annoying after a bunch of these artifacts keep popping up.

I don't recommend using this patch just yet as it is obviously unfinished and highly buggy. Does anyone know if this has been fixed in OpenArena yet?

[www.rweb.co.nr]

Is this patch allready avaliable?? If yes, where can I download it? Thanks, ViRuS

[tehOen]

bug me when bloom is fixed in openarena so I can port to tremulous in a minute.
also I saw screenshots of urban terror they show a wip water reflections
if they release the code ... I can port it (as if tremulous has lots of waters)
I dont believe all those effects existed in games released after quake3(commercial or gpled quake2) and no one implemented them to quake3. Maybe everybody is as lazy as me

[jal]

Tremulous has a too big tris count to even think in moving to XReal (Evolution Q3 is an old version of XReal). There are well known speed problems at some maps with the current renderer, and there are big bloats when bases are attacked cause Trem's gameplay is based in rushes, so all players fight in the same room. Thinking in anything slower than deluxemapping is currently a no-no, cause it will force half of the current player base to stop playing it.
EvolutionQ3 does support deluxemapping. It's a not-so-fast implementation (it's designed for real time lighting), but it's the only Q3 engine I know with it. Still, I wouldn't recommend it, even in the diffuse lighting option (Q3 lighting) it is around 4x slower than the Q3 renderer.

[jal]

bug me when bloom is fixed in openarena so I can port to tremulous in a minute.

There was a discussion on porting my bloom implementation into Q3 in here. I think they solved it at the end, but I'm not really sure. You could check it out:
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7585&start=0

[Odin]

If you could generate a .patch file I'd be happy to test it for you.

[tehOen]

http://openarena.ws/svn/source/bloom.diff this is Harekiet's