Author Topic: Tremulous with raytracing (Read 33538 times)

Odin · « **Reply #30 on:** August 28, 2007, 11:10:38 am »

That's the one I currently use. I'd love to test jal's method though.

tehOen · « **Reply #31 on:** August 28, 2007, 11:12:49 am »

check the quakesrc link I created patches for ioq3 and trem and posted the links there

jal · « **Reply #32 on:** August 28, 2007, 05:38:04 pm »

so, Teh0en, you are f0rque, is it? I didn't know, wouldn't make that post if I knew.

Odin, seen the diff file from OpenArena Teh0en linked it seems to be a port of mine too. I don't know if it's the same port of not, tho.

EDIT: No, OpenArena one is based off mine, but is not a straight port.

kevlarman · « **Reply #33 on:** August 28, 2007, 05:52:22 pm »

Quote from: "jal"

so, Teh0en, you are f0rque, is it? I didn't know, wouldn't make that post if I knew.

unfortunately, not even the ip button next to his posts that mods get help in identifying his many accounts.

tehOen · « **Reply #34 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:58:03 pm »

Quote from: "jal"

EDIT: No, OpenArena one is based off mine, but is not a straight port.

yes you are right but Harekiet compacted the code a lot(and removed cgame dependency ) but idea is the same(and some functions)
do you have any idea why it leaks to the opposite side?

jal · « **Reply #35 on:** August 28, 2007, 07:54:17 pm »

Not really. I'm not familiar with Q3 renderer. I'd say most of the issues at both implementations are cause of the differences in switching from 3d to 2d mode from QFusion to Q3. Probably looking in the Q3 renderer how the switch is made and modifying the bloom code to do the very same thing would fix the straight port of mine.
As for the bleeding, dunno. I mean, it bleeds cause the bluring makes it draw the samples with a little offset. I draw it inside a small projection to keep it inside the sample size. I think they removed this (it's simplified pretty nicely, but he also removed a few things I would have kept).
Also, Vic added a small fix to mine in QFusion for some bugged case (Scissored) : http://l33t.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/l33t/trunk/qfusion/source/ref_gl/r_bloom.c?view=log
But I'm not sure if the OpenArena one does it cause of the same reason. I've never even seen it in action.

www.rweb.co.nr · « **Reply #36 on:** August 31, 2007, 05:59:41 pm »

What about to migrate Tremulous to an other graphic engine like this one:

Nice light mapping!

Nice effects, the wather transparence effect would be greate for the Cloak Weapon in TremX.

Loocking at this image think that in this moment appears a alian in front of you! :O

. Would be a nice and scarry map.

No words, the image says it all!

Isn´t this Raytrace??? How is is possible to make so good shadows??

More here: http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml

And this can be played in realtime?

And now the principal question, Is this engine allready sourcecode relased??

tehOen · « **Reply #37 on:** August 31, 2007, 06:09:29 pm »

this is unreal 3 engine ...

next_ghost · « **Reply #38 on:** August 31, 2007, 06:18:55 pm »

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"

What about to migrate Tremulous to an other graphic engine like this one:

Sure, nobody keeps you from porting it.

Quote

Isn´t this Raytrace???

No, it isn't.

Quote

How is is possible to make so good shadows??

The same way Doom 3 does it and a lot of extra shading.

Quote

And now the principal question, Is this engine allready sourcecode relased??

No, it isn't and won't be for a looooooooooooong time.

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #39 on:** August 31, 2007, 06:19:12 pm »

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"

And now the principal question, Is this engine allready sourcecode relased??

It's Unreal engine 3. It would cost several thousand dollars to use, mabey even a couple of million.
Only people with high-end computers could run it.

If/when the source code was released, it would be about as outdated then, as Quake 3 is now. Just leave Tremulous now. We don't want people as stupid as you to be here.

Odin · « **Reply #40 on:** August 31, 2007, 06:58:50 pm »

I think improving the Q3 engine is a good path to take. The Q3 engine is actually a very good one, probably one of the best id has ever made.

I just wish we could get it to do more on the GPU than on the CPU. Things like the particle system for Tremulous are done on the CPU which is much slower than if it were done on the GPU.

I'd like to get kevlarman's(or some other dev's) opinion on this matter.

Does anyone know if UE3 uses baked-in lightmaps for surface lighting?

Caveman · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2007, 07:41:33 pm »

Lol Matt... +5

www.rweb.co.nr · « **Reply #42 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:40:51 am »

SO the last question. is it possible to add to Tremulous a raytraced like shadows like here:

Whats the name of this raytraced like shadows?

jal · « **Reply #43 on:** September 01, 2007, 01:17:24 pm »

That's probably stencil shadow volumes. Could be shadowMaps too (the shadow in that shot is too small to really appreciate it) but given how the rest of the render looks (not that good) I'd bet for stencil. The ones in the unreal 3 engine shots are shadowMaps, the ones at Doom3 are stencil.
And yes, they are possible to add to Quake3 engine, but it's quite a project on its own too.

These are shadowmaps:

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #44 on:** September 01, 2007, 04:56:03 pm »

To be absolutely clear, real-time ray tracing is not possible with current consumer hardware. There is no such thing as a PC that can ray trace in real time.

As has been discussed in other threads, if time is going to be spent on the rendering system it's probably best spent on moving more of work from the CPU on to the GPU.

Oblivion · « **Reply #45 on:** September 01, 2007, 05:24:50 pm »

No Try The New Game Crysis That has to have a high end video card to play.

The word is that if you want to play this game you need to have a really good video card, and my current card Radeon X1950 PRO can not even handle it, so if I get this game I will need to upgrade it seems which sucks, I have seen demos which is awesome maybe I can post some on here.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24071.html
There is part of a demo. But still thats not the best.

next_ghost · « **Reply #46 on:** September 01, 2007, 07:06:12 pm »

Quote from: "Oblivion"

No Try The New Game Crysis That has to have a high end video card to play.

No what? All I can see is just another scanline engine shaded to death. Raytraced games run at about 60 frames per HOUR on best current hardware :roll:

Odin · « **Reply #47 on:** September 01, 2007, 11:09:34 pm »

Quote from: "next_ghost"

Quote from: "Oblivion"
No Try The New Game Crysis That has to have a high end video card to play.

No what? All I can see is just another scanline engine shaded to death. Raytraced games run at about 60 frames per HOUR on best current hardware :roll:

You mean Raster graphics?

jal · « **Reply #48 on:** September 02, 2007, 01:12:32 am »

Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"

To be absolutely clear, real-time ray tracing is not possible with current consumer hardware.

With current consume hardware you can't even run cryengine2

Seriously speaking, the only practical option for a game like tremulous right now is deluxemapping. Real time stuff would destroy the comunity.
But it also has to be deluxemapping made with speed in mind. The old XReal (Evolution Q3) supports deluxemapping, but it's designed for real time and it's slow on deluxemap mode. This is how deluxemapping looks in QFusion, with only a small speed loss from Q3 lighting (number at bottom right corner in the first shot is fps. The shot is taken with a radeon9600pro).

http://jal.quakedev.com/shots/tra3.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwfmID8osM

www.rweb.co.nr · « **Reply #49 on:** September 03, 2007, 03:35:08 pm »

Ooops! it looks like an error. In one of the Images Oblivion showed to us there is a error. Look here:

The red circle shows where the error is, the green one shows where the shadow should be.

LOL, so the newest and best engines are full of basic errors. :eek:

P.D: somebody know a good physic engine?? Like the one from blender??

Odin · « **Reply #50 on:** September 03, 2007, 05:40:12 pm »

Quote from: "jal"

Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
To be absolutely clear, real-time ray tracing is not possible with current consumer hardware.

With current consume hardware you can't even run cryengine2

Seriously speaking, the only practical option for a game like tremulous right now is deluxemapping. Real time stuff would destroy the comunity.
But it also has to be deluxemapping made with speed in mind. The old XReal (Evolution Q3) supports deluxemapping, but it's designed for real time and it's slow on deluxemap mode. This is how deluxemapping looks in QFusion, with only a small speed loss from Q3 lighting (number at bottom right corner in the first shot is fps. The shot is taken with a radeon9600pro).

http://jal.quakedev.com/shots/tra3.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwfmID8osM

Cool!

I'll ask the obligatory: Is this portable to ioQ3?

kevlarman · « **Reply #51 on:** September 03, 2007, 05:46:44 pm »

Quote from: "jal"

Quote from: "Taiyo.uk"
To be absolutely clear, real-time ray tracing is not possible with current consumer hardware.

With current consume hardware you can't even run cryengine2

Seriously speaking, the only practical option for a game like tremulous right now is deluxemapping. Real time stuff would destroy the comunity.
But it also has to be deluxemapping made with speed in mind. The old XReal (Evolution Q3) supports deluxemapping, but it's designed for real time and it's slow on deluxemap mode. This is how deluxemapping looks in QFusion, with only a small speed loss from Q3 lighting (number at bottom right corner in the first shot is fps. The shot is taken with a radeon9600pro).

http://jal.quakedev.com/shots/tra3.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwfmID8osM

i wouldn't call it a small speed loss, i get barely 20% more fps in warsow than i do in trem. (athlon 850mhz, radeon 9250, Driver "radeon")

jal · « **Reply #52 on:** September 04, 2007, 01:14:56 am »

Well, those shots aren't from Warsow. Warsow doesn't actually make use of deluxe mapping yet. I do have a speed loss from Q3 lighting to per pixel lit, of course, but it's still at playable speed (meaning constant > 90fps with a radeon 9600pro), and when disabled it's 100% the same speeds as before its implementation. It would be playable (for real) in deluxemap mode for people with half-new cards and would keep the current rendering path with no loss for the others.

EDIT: In short, what I mean is that, of all those per-pixel-lighting solutions, it's the only one which would keep Tremulous playable on currently average user hardware. But even with this solution not every Trem player would be able of make use of it, ofc.

jal · « **Reply #53 on:** September 04, 2007, 01:18:45 am »

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"

Ooops! it looks like an error. In one of the Images Oblivion showed to us there is a error.

Mate, the red circle is pointing to the shadow of the chaingun.

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #54 on:** September 04, 2007, 03:35:33 am »

Quote from: "jal"

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"
Ooops! it looks like an error. In one of the Images Oblivion showed to us there is a error.

Mate, the red circle is pointing to the shadow of the chaingun.

Indeed it is. In light of this revelation, I hereby declare this a definitive case of self-pwnage.

www.rweb.co.nr · « **Reply #55 on:** September 04, 2007, 09:32:13 am »

Quote from: "jal"

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"
Ooops! it looks like an error. In one of the Images Oblivion showed to us there is a error.

Mate, the red circle is pointing to the shadow of the chaingun.

LOL, you're right!

It looks like the shadow of the leg. Grr, so the engine haven't errors. LOL.

Vector_Matt · « **Reply #56 on:** September 04, 2007, 05:42:58 pm »

Quote from: "www.rweb.co.nr"

Grr, so the engine haven't errors.

It has errors, just none that you know of.

And it should be written, "Grr, that means the engine doesn't have errors."

I vote for deluxe mapping.
Now who can we get to change ioq3 to have it? That's the big question.

next_ghost · « **Reply #57 on:** September 04, 2007, 10:05:16 pm »

Quote from: "jal"

Mate, the red circle is pointing to the shadow of the chaingun.

... which wouldn't be there if there was dynamic lightning and proper chaingun muzzle light source.

Taiyo.uk · « **Reply #58 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:31:58 am »

Quote from: "next_ghost"

chaingun muzzle light source.

hey there's this game called tremulous or summink that has one of those!

gareth · « **Reply #59 on:** September 05, 2007, 09:40:28 am »

additive dynamic lighting! non of that raytraced shadowmapped shader crap!

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Author Topic: Tremulous with raytracing (Read 33538 times)

tehOen

tehOen

tehOen

Caveman