Why social skills are important in a team game

[SoulAsasiN]

A question on Etiquettes here...

I'm still bit of a noob here, so bear with me...

I'v read that "staying in base, camping and spamming corners" is bad form....but I'v also read that someone has got to stay behind to defend the base, lest everyone runs off to be killwhores and Fcuk the team strategy. As a newbie I feel I am more useful staying near base than running off and feeding. I don't have fantastic killscores, but I'm never at the bottom either.

As an example, I was defending the base with some other other guys...I was in an elevated position, (Karith map I think, base was behind some sliding doors in a big hanger type room). I had a MD and batt pack, the other fellows had a chainguns and the like...one builder keeping things alive. Rants were periodically rushing the base 1 or 2 at a time and dealing damage. It was only us 3 that were keeping the rants at bay. All of us were "camping" and "spamming". The only way they eventually broke through our defense was  a dretchstorm to break us up while the rants finished the job.

My question is...wheres the bad form?? we had a strategy that was working, that was defeated only when the enemy changed their strategy. This is the nature of warfare. 

Could someone explain the difference to this here noob?   

[+ OPTIMUS +]

@Killwhoring:
the guy who is staying on a corridor to handle low-skill dretches with a lucicannon just for the frag amount instead of fighting aliens with more balanced "weight class" or killing people at spawn spots instead of killing the spawn itself is killwhoreing. I've seen many.

@SoulAsassin:
spamming should be avoided even while defending the base. it means you keep on firing to the same spot where aliens are going to come, without actually aiming or waiting for them to come. this can make a lot of friendly fire damage also.
usually "camping" is when your team is equipped enough for an attack but still not moving out. like i'd say a chaingunner is a camper if he stays in the base as that weapon is dealing a high amount of damage and can hit big aliens as goons and tyrants with almost 100% accuracy.
nobody expects you to rush out unarmored and with only a rifle if you are surrounded by big mofos.
and ofc nobody expects you to leave the base when noone else is around. guards (or usually one) are (is) always needed at least to warn others if base is in danger.
the problem with camping is that dretches and other smallies don't have a chance to play if humans are in their base, and this way half of the team is just suffering while others are simply having a boring time...

[DHRUVINATOR]

Ah this is funny.

[Revan]

spamming should be avoided even while defending the base. it means you keep on firing to the same spot where aliens are going to come, without actually aiming or waiting for them to come. this can make a lot of friendly fire damage also.
usually "camping" is when your team is equipped enough for an attack but still not moving out. like i'd say a chaingunner is a camper if he stays in the base as that weapon is dealing a high amount of damage and can hit big aliens as goons and tyrants with almost 100% accuracy.

Yes a chaingun will kill goons and rants pretty quick which is EXACTLY why they are needed at base, you need something that can hold up and deal tremendous damage quick (the luci is almost useless for this it fires FAR to slow)
 

[player1]

yes, plz use a luci in ur own base
& plz aim towards ur own players & structures
don't let the rate of fire bother you

i think a chaingunner aiming away from the base can be useful
constant damage slows enemies down
plus it's no guarantee, you can still get dealt on

[+ OPTIMUS +]

Yes a chaingun will kill goons and rants pretty quick which is EXACTLY why they are needed at base, you need something that can hold up and deal tremendous damage quick (the luci is almost useless for this it fires FAR to slow)
 

they are needed at base, but not IN base. if you sit behind the turret, tyrants and goons will destroy them one by one, in a pitifully slow and boring way. if you get a chaingun, you should jump down and dance around tyrants with grenade in your mouth, making them teamkill each others - and then finish the rest.

[jr2]

Yes a chaingun will kill goons and rants pretty quick which is EXACTLY why they are needed at base, you need something that can hold up and deal tremendous damage quick (the luci is almost useless for this it fires FAR to slow)
 

they are needed at base, but not IN base. if you sit behind the turret, tyrants and goons will destroy them one by one, in a pitifully slow and boring way. if you get a chaingun, you should jump down and dance around tyrants with grenade in your mouth, making them teamkill each others - and then finish the rest.

You mean like me in ATCS?

-jr2 jumps down, begins spraying as he moves
-rant jumps over his head, wiggles one claw as he sails to the other side
-jr2 dies, having managed to fire 30 rounds of chaingun at nothing in particular

See, if I could actually see what I did wrong, and how to do it better in the future, it wouldn't be so infuriating.  How the heck do you avoid an attack you can't see?  It should be logical.  Like, I'm dancing around a rant in the hallway, and I jump towards the wall, trying to sidestep him.  He's still facing the other way, but I see him attack, and even though he's nowheres near me, I die.  You can't learn (easily) because you can't freaking see. 

Now, I've gotten good enough so that I can sometimes drive a newb to newb-average rant insane by dodging them for about 45 seconds (sometimes more) as a naked rifleman... what gives?  A real rant would easily solve that situation... but I imagine, from the other player perspective, it prolly looked a heck of a lot like they were making perfect attacks that I was magically dodging.

Hmph.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

for me, trying to kill tyrants is much more fun then crouching on top of reactor :-(
and if you don't move out (at ATCS especially), the low HP tyrants will heal themselves just 4 meters from you back to full HP and will attack again.
and goons are often concentrating on sniping, wich allows you to grab half of their HP before they actually notice you.

but, hey, I'm a feeder so it might be not as much fun for others :-D

[Dracone]

I'm sad because I'm a feeder. BUT THERE IS HOPE! I am training myself in this "run away and heal instead of dying" thing. It hurts though. :/

And jr2, it's difficult for what you want to happen. I wish I could see exactly where they were aiming at as well but the unfortunate fact, as far as getting better, is that the models of the players do not keep up with the turning of some players. If your sens is high enough, you can turn and hit before any change in direction is even possible to be noticed by your enemy. However, I have seen rare cases where a rant or goon instantly flips around 180 degrees. It looks quite odd.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

I'm sad because I'm a feeder. BUT THERE IS HOPE! I am training myself in this "run away and heal instead of dying" thing. It hurts though. :/

And jr2, it's difficult for what you want to happen. I wish I could see exactly where they were aiming at as well but the unfortunate fact, as far as getting better, is that the models of the players do not keep up with the turning of some players. If your sens is high enough, you can turn and hit before any change in direction is even possible to be noticed by your enemy. However, I have seen rare cases where a rant or goon instantly flips around 180 degrees. It looks quite odd.

instant 180turn is a simple bind, with 125 FPS it looks like this when it is attached to button z:

bind z vstr turn
set turn "cl_yawspeed 1725; +right; wait 26; -right; cl_yawspeed 140"

you can upgrade your skills dramatically by training one versus one with a friend just for frags, especially dretch vs rifle to improve aiming and dodging with both races. then you can change for different weapons and monster classes to practice specified issues. try to find skilled opponents so you can learn from them.

[Revan]

You mean like me in ATCS?

-jr2 jumps down, begins spraying as he moves
-rant jumps over his head, wiggles one claw as he sails to the other side
-jr2 dies, having managed to fire 30 rounds of chaingun at nothing in particular

If there is only 1 or 2 rants / goons GET BEHIND THEM! turrets in front and a chain in the ass what do you think will happen?

[The Crazie Coward]

social skills aeh? they are important but are u missing 1 last part to finish it? Building! you forgot to include that part. I have been building all these time and cooperation + balance will still make u lose if the enemy ever reach to your stupid noob build base with rets all over. Building bases takes up nearly half of the game, where the other half is the players social skills/pro. A good base + good players is what i called a extremely good team.

btw Raven im looking forward to see u in trem for complementing on my clan (TSME) for good work of having good base buildiers
(just wondering where u hang out the most)

[Revan]

social skills aeh? they are important but are u missing 1 last part to finish it? Building! you forgot to include that part. I have been building all these time and cooperation + balance will still make u lose if the enemy ever reach to your stupid noob build base with rets all over. Building bases takes up nearly half of the game, where the other half is the players social skills/pro. A good base + good players is what i called a extremely good team.

btw Raven im looking forward to see u in trem for complementing on my clan (TSME) for good work of having good base buildiers
(just wondering where u hang out the most)

Nice to see (errrm... read) you again I was beginning to think TSME was dead. I am almost always at |SST|Tremulous, what server does TSME play usually?

[The Crazie Coward]

TSME hang out at SST or DS Dretch Storm...usually those with high players.

[player1]

//Slightly Offtopic

Tremulous needs an "official" definition for killwhore. I don't know how many times I've been called a killwhore just because I had a high amount of kills.

Exactly. Doesnt matter how many eggs you've killed, or any structures. At the end of the game theres always someone...

//Slightly Offtopic

Tremulous needs an "official" definition for killwhore. I don't know how many times I've been called a killwhore just because I had a high amount of kills.

I would say a definition would be someone who goes out, to kill only. Not attack the other base. Sometimes its hard to tell, if some just get sidetracked on the way and have to return for health.

Another note is, I don't think it should ever be used before stage 3. Killing a lot in stages 1 and 2 have a goal in themselves.

It's good to hear from some people who I know are good, basekilling-oriented players who are also really good killers, and who often get accused of the heinous killwhoring. I agree with all three of you dudes (even though I'm so bad at the game, there's know way I can say I really see it from your perspective).

There should be some way besides chat to see who destroyed major structures on the enemy team. Maybe echo'd like a PM (in the center of the screen)? "St. Anger destroyed the reactor! Attack, you idiots." Like a message to each of his teammates, that would fade away after half a second or so. Maybe little badges could accrue next to your score, showing who has destroyed how many structures. Maybe after X kills, without entering the enemy build zone (creep area or power limit), OR doing at least enough structure damage to destroy their cheapest structure (100 iirc), within Y minutes, you get a PM from the server, telling you to move on, and at Z kills, you get autoslapped (e.g. - X=10, dmg=100, Y=5, Z=20).

Also, BB, you're right about getting kills before S3. In Stages One and Two, killing is the main objective of the game. Killing them faster than they kill us, so we can get the cool toys before they do. Reaching stageup before the enemy, and pressing that advantage to do it again, should be the goal of any competent squad of Tremsters. It's true that somebody has to build and defend, but I agree with you dudes, somebody also has to go out and get all those kills, so the rest of us lamers can get a better weapon/class, and begin to participate.

By the way, dudes; thanks for the evos, the pulse rifles, and the adv maras. Nice coattails. Now kill 'em all again. I want a lucicannon.

Cheers!

P.S. That's me trying to knock out their Armoury/Booster.

[Revan]

I don't think there is such a thing (edit: as killwhoring) in trem: at s1-s2 you need kills (and money), s3 you need money, if you have enough /donate it, I always donate my evos if I have more that enough

[toastisgood]

I never leave without a buddie  (just in case:me-} vs-} +chaingun)

[Metsjeesus]

Yes a chaingun will kill goons and rants pretty quick which is EXACTLY why they are needed at base, you need something that can hold up and deal tremendous damage quick (the luci is almost useless for this it fires FAR to slow)
 

they are needed at base, but not IN base. if you sit behind the turret, tyrants and goons will destroy them one by one, in a pitifully slow and boring way. if you get a chaingun, you should jump down and dance around tyrants with grenade in your mouth, making them teamkill each others - and then finish the rest.

1 battlesuited chaingun can't kill a adv-goon or tyr, 2 battlesuited chainguns can kill adv-goons and probably tyr too(but 1 guy usually dies), 3 bs chainguns mostly kill single tyr and survive, but 1 other poisoned alien probably kills one of us. 4 battlesuited chaingunners kill everything on their way, exept well teamed tyrs but even then they lost usually more evos then humans cash. But try to make such a 4 guy team.

Camping is valid tactic. it means you wait until alien comes to you, and if its hurt and flees YOU FOLLOW and try to kill it, specially if you dont got weapon and armor. Damn i hate that, when you shot 4 shotguns full into tyrs body, even hear that he is hurted when you die, but none of 4 riflemans follows him to make last 5 bullets into his body, they must all go to medi and heal.

[whitebear]

camped under the stairs in transit in a bsuit with a psaw to kill dretches

Thats what I call to be in category of taunting. Player should be able to restrain himself to be tempted to attack these unless they really have a chances of defeating them (such as being last player of their team and no base to med in). Of course you don't call it skill because anyone with bit playing experience could do same.
I would not incriminate any game play style as long as it does not consist cheating or exploiting bugs.

[King]

You can also use !pause in spite of the incessant complaining of the people who are "in battle."  And at the same time, you can teach the one who "deconned" the OM/RC/Egg/Node during SD and tell them where to put it, or you can put them on the spectators and talk to them about what they did wrong and how to do it right the next time.

Forgive my ignorance if this was already posted, but I didn't see anything about 3/4 of the way down so I decided to post it.  And yes, I know every server might not have !pause.  However, I frequent a server that has that option as well as something called !forespec or something along the lines of !aforespec which allows the "victim" the right to join a team or disallow it.

Adios,

King