What would a good human base design looks like?

[The Crazie Coward]

The Main Criterias for a good human base is......Easy access to the armory/medi, nodes near the armory, compact bases which are unable to be pounced and where important buildings are together, not far apart which would be killed 1 by 1 like a DC in the Frontlines.Rets would be placed infront of exits in a semi-circle formation, DC must be built to enable better upgrade for rets, teslas may be used at stragetic locations and not being acknowledged as LOUSY version of rets, waste of bps, but refered as high barricades to protect arm from snipes and used for forward bases(before aliens get s3) to destroy small aliens, mainly dretches.
Base itself must be placed in a good location,(eg. Anti-Rantable;Anti-pouncable;Anti-snipable;Immune to nearly all attacks) if its not possible use the default area but make the best out of it. Important buildings(Exclude rets and teslas) cannot be sniped or is difficult to be sniped.

[Survivor]

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=642.0

And it is only valid for 1.1. 1.2 will change things drastically. Which means i'll have to rewrite the damn thing...

[The Crazie Coward]

It dosent seems that helpful actually......I have already came out with a Photo Album of good areas to move and good base building plans for the default maps like Tremor,Atcs, Transit. Made some default and moved ones.If intrested plz ask.


(Found certain areas where your bases LASTS.Some anti-rantable, anti-pouncable. Some has armory totaly protected and not snipable.ALL BASES HAVE BEEN TESTED AND BUILT.[Low bp costs for most bases])

[+ OPTIMUS +]

I have a photoalbum of kama-sutra granger pr0nz. all positons tested.

Coward, why don'T you show something istead of only advertising? <.<

[Revan]

^^ been kind of wondering when any material would show up if ever, and are there plans for a clan web site?

[The Crazie Coward]

I aint advertising. I have the files of leet bases ive built. You just never seen builders talk like that before that is. Im probably the only dedicated builder who builds good human bases. Bases are not perfect espically without humans defending. Some may think i build sucky bases because they either never see 1 of my leet bases people thx me before.
Link to my base building plans:http://www.turboupload.com/download/MwtnJzuFuTjQ/TremBuildingPlans.zip
(there are some names in the pictures, to prove that i did it in action, and not lone build and never tried it before.)

Clan not big enugh.Have a website up already....jsut needa check it.Check the world icon below my name.
<-------------------------

[HamStar]

Took a good look at some of your bases and well... some of the buildings aren't placed in optimal places for them to defend themselves without camping humans, such as the snipable DC in ATCS. I also see that the BP is not set to the default of 100, so the efficiency of the bases can't really be tested under the normal circumstances in an average server.

[Survivor]

On your atcs base the teslas and dc are badly placed, while players will have to jump over the turrets to get to the double medi, which could have better been put directly next to each other to increase single player healing as well by switching it with the node to the left.

On karith, elevator room, it is clear you are using more than the standard 100 bp. To boot it isn't that strong a base without a lot of humans spamming the floor so the adv goons can't snipe the turrets and set of a chain reaction.
On karith, grate, come on. Even worse against adv goons. And bad for any human without a jetpack to boot since the armory's defense at groundlevel is a joke.

On nexus, you put the dc in the open again, the reactor is in exactly that corner which can be ledgesniped from the rightside of the base. There is no actual gain for moving the reactor 4 meters, I'd rather not take it down and expose my base for the duration if that is the best spot within 4 meters you can come up with. At least the turret placement is half decent.

Niveus, box room, clear bp abuse again as can be seen from the turrets. And putting a base high doesn't add much for humans. Especially an arm and a med up high. Useless.
Niveus, red room, bp abuse again, just cannot take that seriously.

Transit, bp abuse again. And in a location which is not all that good. The sand room is useless for more than the sure dead back-up egg. It is hard to defend unless there's quite a few humans present.

Tremor, boxes, surprise surprise, bp abuse again. And leaving the arm open in a high location while it doesn't gain anything by being there only makes it worse.
Tremor, opposite boxes, oh come on. The original location is way better than this one. No cover, 2 ways for adv goons to escape both of which can be covered by tyrants.

I aint advertising. I have the files of leet bases ive built. You just never seen builders talk like that before that is. Im probably the only dedicated builder who builds good human bases. Bases are not perfect espically without humans defending. Some may think i build sucky bases because they either never see 1 of my leet bases people thx me before.

These are not leet, they are founded on >100 bp servers with bad interpretation of the aliens offensive capabilities when in the hands of the skilled player. Don't get your panties in a twist when you think you are the only good dedicated builder. Fact is you can't build exceptional bases until you understand the defense and attack patterns of both. I can honestly say this is not the work of a craftsman.

So are you going to call the time you've been playing the game on me now? Or just accept and try to play and build on 100 bp servers?

[The Crazie Coward]

All bases needs human protection.If you are saying they dont need meaning youve been playing yourself all along with your bases i bet. Bases dont depend on themselves, thats y we have PLAYERS. My bases are going for the maximum lastage areas. They are not bent on offensive but mainly defensive.And note that my bases can be decreased to 100 bps as there are some areas where some rets go offensive instead of defensive. If you do want to go by easy access i can edit them. Im going by the best possible areas here. If you can find better areas, GO AHEAD. IF you do think my base areas are shit, DONT EVER BUILD THERE. Btw i took ATCS for the Ret formation. The base is someone built.
DID YOU EVEN TRY THEM? i assume as a no. If you didnt even try any single 1 of them, how would you know? I used to think some bases are pure crap shit, useless. But after a test, you can see the bad/good points, edit them for your own liking.
Camping....dont humans do that? I assume that youve never seen human base the whole game from starting till the end while it gets raped ret by ret?
Ive observed lots of humans, compared their charateristics, and taken the majority.
For the elevator room, you can see that all of the important buildings are blocked from any sniping execpt the rets. Adv goons rarely come in as jetties would kill them and its suicidal. Its also 50/50 percent that they even kill a ret.The base in ele room ive built for like 5 times in a 9v9 match and i didnt see the arm,nodes,medi, DC and RC went down. Ive built them, stayed with them, repaired them till the game ends. My bases are just a guideline. Im just showing how a base would look like. I DIDNT ASK YOU TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME. Ive been building for 1 year already. AND I MEANT MAINLY PURE BUILD, rarely even using a weapon.
You cant judge a book by its cover. THATS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG.

[Atom Eve]

Ive been building for 1 year already. AND I MEANT MAINLY PURE BUILD, rarely even using a weapon.

And yet those bases you posted still suck. Seems like a lot of time wasted.

[The Crazie Coward]

Now i get it y are there so many noob builders. Thx you guys for reminding me that.

[Metsjeesus]

I looked that zip file, default 1.1 rules.

In ATCS, i would take that corner turret and put medi there, doublemedi rules and you got fast way to get in or out.. And yeh, change corner tele with def com. Probably def com is sniped before teslas so let teslas be more useful then. Good is, arm is protected by medis and spawned guy.

In Karith, i dont like bases what makes battlesuits useless. Lift is more or less default, but is snipeable from longer side. Grate Base near vents is bad, first a tyr takes with 1 rush most of floor things down, so battlesuits are useless after tat, after that, goon can safely take down all turrets. Better try to go dark stairs, better chances.

in Nexus, i more often make, tyrtraps. Make turrets so that big tyrs cant escape if they rush. Default is higly snipeable. There are not exxelent places in this map, but both sides in way out are still better then default.

in Niveus, exxelent places are plant room and 4 doors. Both are almost indestructable. Box room is not soo bad, but you often see alien until its too late and they do heavy damage. Red room, well, its better, but its soo near plants what are way better, why not to try to get there, react gives enery, no need to repeaters. Plants room goodside is, its damn hard as a alien to go fast deep in there, it gives tome to shoot even biggest ones down. 4 doors goodside is, react can block most of usable buildings and 1-2 painsawguys can take even 3-4 tyrs down without single building is lost.

Transit is jetpackers heaven, Sand is good place. Try not to make blocking turrets, that annoy, less firepower on front of action.

Tremor, well those boxes both seems to be good, acutally its goons heaven and its far far from alien base. Makes harder as a human to win and easy as a goon to take buildings down. If you want to make someting good, use place in box room where door and tunnel from default are goes up, big part of map is unbuilded and not usable to alien too, but you are way more near to alien base and you can make lot damage before bigger aliens are near to your base.

[The Crazie Coward]

Tremor, well those boxes both seems to be good, acutally its goons heaven and its far far from alien base. Makes harder as a human to win and easy as a goon to take buildings down. If you want to make someting good, use place in box room where door and tunnel from default are goes up, big part of map is unbuilded and not usable to alien too, but you are way more near to alien base and you can make lot damage before bigger aliens are near to your base.

No base is perfect. Thats the best i got for humans from 100-150bps. Goons rarely come because they think is suicidal just to kill 1 ret.WASTE OF EVOS.
Did you even try it? or you are mentioning my box room.Because i dont get where u meant.

[Survivor]

All bases needs human protection.If you are saying they dont need meaning youve been playing yourself all along with your bases i bet. Bases dont depend on themselves, thats y we have PLAYERS.

7: Defences are nothing without human support when playing against a good alien team.

My bases are going for the maximum lastage areas. They are not bent on offensive but mainly defensive.

A base is never offensive. And maximum lastage with >100 bp just means you get bonus points which shouldn't be there.

And note that my bases can be decreased to 100 bps as there are some areas where some rets go offensive instead of defensive.

Then do so, else you are fooling yourself with the strength of your bases.

If you do want to go by easy access i can edit them.

The Main Criterias for a good human base is......Easy access to the armory/medi, nodes near the armory

You ignored your own stated first rule for a good human base. So edit them to not contradict yourself.

Im going by the best possible areas here. If you can find better areas, GO AHEAD.

The best possible area also depends on the possibility of getting there safely, besides the way something is built.

IF you do think my base areas are shit, DONT EVER BUILD THERE.

It's not where you build that's most important, but how you are building.

Btw i took ATCS for the Ret formation. The base is someone built.

Then mention that from the get go.

DID YOU EVEN TRY THEM? i assume as a no. If you didnt even try any single 1 of them, how would you know? I used to think some bases are pure crap shit, useless. But after a test, you can see the bad/good points, edit them for your own liking.

I have tried multiple bases in my trem gaming time, and there were more absurd ones then you have built. But some worked and others didn't. And most experienced players can see that in a glance.

Camping....dont humans do that? I assume that youve never seen human base the whole game from starting till the end while it gets raped ret by ret?

You assume a lot, although you don't want me to assume anything about you.

Ive observed lots of humans, compared their charateristics, and taken the majority.

You should observe humans and aliens, defensive and offensive. Unless your team is the largest threat to your own base...

For the elevator room, you can see that all of the important buildings are blocked from any sniping execpt the rets.

And did I mention anything about the vulnerability of anything but the turrets? I stated that it would be too easy to create a chain reaction unless >½ of the human team was camping, in which case they lack the firepower to annihilate the aliens anyway.

Adv goons rarely come in as jetties would kill them and its suicidal. Its also 50/50 percent that they even kill a ret.

Depending on the players of course, and on ff on/off, and since you're playing on >100 bp servers, and most of those have ff off, we can assume you have it easy.

The base in ele room ive built for like 5 times in a 9v9 match and i didnt see the arm,nodes,medi, DC and RC went down. Ive built them, stayed with them, repaired them till the game ends.

Did you win? Or were there lots of draws? What was the level of the alien team? Demoes? Because if you didn't have the abundance of turrets it would be easy to compromise base defense from the vent without losing strength at the front defense.

My bases are just a guideline. Im just showing how a base would look like.

Yes, that's natural, but that means they should look like yours, which are not the best they could be.

I DIDNT ASK YOU TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME.

We should accept everything you say just because it's you saying it? Don't make me laugh. And what is the use of this thread if we're supposed to deviate extremely from it.

Ive been building for 1 year already.

Wonderful information.

AND I MEANT MAINLY PURE BUILD, rarely even using a weapon.

That makes you unsuitable to be a builder. You need to play humans and aliens, defensive and offensive, to truly understand the game.

You cant judge a book by its cover. THATS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG.

And that's where you are wrong. I'm not judging the book by its cover. I'm judging the base by the screenshots provided.

As for your retort in general, split it up better next time. It's annoying to read one big hunk of text without any coherence.
Correct spelling and grammar also make posts more enjoyable to read. Capslock is something which shouldn't be used in serious posts.
If you're serious about becoming a guide, because you sure as hell aren't one yet, to new players about building lets make the title correct shall we.
[TSME] - Tremulous Society of Mechanical Enginners

And how long do you think I've been playing? Because I like to know what you assumed about me as well.

[The Crazie Coward]

My bases are going for the maximum lastage areas. They are not bent on offensive but mainly defensive.

A base is never offensive. And maximum lastage with >100 bp just means you get bonus points which shouldn't be there.

As i said, Defensive. Cant you read carefully before you post?

And note that my bases can be decreased to 100 bps as there are some areas where some rets go offensive instead of defensive.

Then do so, else you are fooling yourself with the strength of your bases.

I aint fooling myself, those are the extra bps NOT needed. So the rets does not needs to be there, they just help abit compared to the main ones.

If you do want to go by easy access i can edit them.

The Main Criterias for a good human base is......Easy access to the armory/medi, nodes near the armory

You ignored your own stated first rule for a good human base. So edit them to not contradict yourself.

I ingnored that fact is sometimes humans can get smart you get that? Some places are worth putting a extra ret instead of a pathway. A pathway seems optional to most builders.

Im going by the best possible areas here. If you can find better areas, GO AHEAD.

The best possible area also depends on the possibility of getting there safely, besides the way something is built.

Im talking base here, not about humans and their desires. They can get jetpacks and defend instead of going suits and go heroic.

IF you do think my base areas are shit, DONT EVER BUILD THERE.

It's not where you build that's most important, but how you are building.

What if you built out in the open in pushcannon? does it not matters to you? The area itself is a 50% benefit to how long your base lasts. If you can take another extra 50%, you sure you wont take it?

DID YOU EVEN TRY THEM? i assume as a no. If you didnt even try any single 1 of them, how would you know? I used to think some bases are pure crap shit, useless. But after a test, you can see the bad/good points, edit them for your own liking.

I have tried multiple bases in my trem gaming time, and there were more absurd ones then you have built. But some worked and others didn't. And most experienced players can see that in a glance.

People who are experience are people who had tried it before. From there you get the pros and cons, and make the best of all bases. If you know so much y not DONT copy mine and get a list of your bases?

Camping....dont humans do that? I assume that youve never seen human base the whole game from starting till the end while it gets raped ret by ret?

You assume a lot, although you don't want me to assume anything about you.

You confirm things too fast by just one glance, although you don't want me to confirm things about you.

Ive observed lots of humans, compared their charateristics, and taken the majority.

You should observe humans and aliens, defensive and offensive. Unless your team is the largest threat to your own base...

I sepectate alot. Nice assume you got there. Btw im referring to humans about their camps, not anything about aliens. READ carefully plz.

For the elevator room, you can see that all of the important buildings are blocked from any sniping execpt the rets.

And did I mention anything about the vulnerability of anything but the turrets? I stated that it would be too easy to create a chain reaction unless >½ of the human team was camping, in which case they lack the firepower to annihilate the aliens anyway.

I said,

Ive built them, stayed with them, repaired them till the game ends.

Adv goons rarely come in as jetties would kill them and its suicidal. Its also 50/50 percent that they even kill a ret.

Depending on the players of course, and on ff on/off, and since you're playing on >100 bp servers, and most of those have ff off, we can assume you have it easy.

FF off are for noobs. I play SST where you see some real nice massive bleeding and base TK on. I had to manage the whole 250 bps base mostly on my own during SD.SST has 20 vs 20. Did you handle that before?

The base in ele room ive built for like 5 times in a 9v9 match and i didnt see the arm,nodes,medi, DC and RC went down. Ive built them, stayed with them, repaired them till the game ends.

Did you win? Or were there lots of draws? What was the level of the alien team? Demoes? Because if you didn't have the abundance of turrets it would be easy to compromise base defense from the vent without losing strength at the front defense.

As usual you didnt even try, and just predicted + assumed. 50% win 50% draw. Depending on how good the players are. Base never fall. If you need a demo build it yourself. Its for you to try, do you want to sit down there and watch a 45min game? If you would then you are the only special 1 out of billions.

My bases are just a guideline. Im just showing how a base would look like.

Yes, that's natural, but that means they should look like yours, which are not the best they could be.

I said, "My bases are just a guideline." You may change it to suit you in what ever way you want. Do you execpt people to follow your base ret by ret?
You think too much about criticizim.

I DIDNT ASK YOU TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME.

We should accept everything you say just because it's you saying it? Don't make me laugh. And what is the use of this thread if we're supposed to deviate extremely from it.

Im talking to beginners here. You don't understand much don't you.

AND I MEANT MAINLY PURE BUILD, rarely even using a weapon.

That makes you unsuitable to be a builder. You need to play humans and aliens, defensive and offensive, to truly understand the game.

I said rarely. I didnt even said that i didnt even play aliens, and rarely means ive played using a gun sometimes.

You cant judge a book by its cover. THATS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG.

And that's where you are wrong. I'm not judging the book by its cover. I'm judging the base by the screenshots provided.

Then if i introduce you a house for you to buy, all you need to see are the pictures of it will do? Defintely you need to experience being inside the real thing.


The clan name is alright, you see things at a glance, not knowing what is actually written?

[Survivor]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother? Try reading everything I said again. And responding again, this time thoroughly thought out. And as a fyi, engineers.

[Lava Croft]

Real builders don't talk, they build. And build. And build some more.

[mooseberry]

  I just remebered the first time I ever built. (which was a looonngg time ago) I didn't know how to heal buildings, so I just deconned them and rebuilt it.  I don't think I ever did that with the reac though..  Just turrets and stuff.

[Metsjeesus]

No base is perfect. Thats the best i got for humans from 100-150bps. Goons rarely come because they think is suicidal just to kill 1 ret.WASTE OF EVOS.
Did you even try it? or you are mentioning my box room.Because i dont get where u meant.

Good human base is near to alien base. Good alien base is far away from human base.
To make it clear, humans have better chances to win, if they can quickly refill health and ammo. If you must walk long to get into alien base and back, you will often die and lose your equipment + give more evos + more bigger aliens.

If human build far away from alien base, it encourages camping - if you go out, you are dead. So there are more people who defend and bases last longer.

On Sudden Death, when you cant rebuild anything, 1 sniping goon who blow a human building is well used 4 evos, even if goon dies.

Ive tried both of your tremor box room layouts. For camping, those are really good, but if you try to kill alien base, its not. Even, if aliens own other half of box room and/or humans got no cash/arm, sniping kills both bases very quickly. 

[The Crazie Coward]

Those bases cannot be built over and over again, as players would get used to it and know what to do. Its like a standard attack on different bases. Humans always camp, and tremor there isnt a safer base move which goes forward, since its 2 way, they would find out asap. Box is much better than the default as its 1 way out, where aliens cant come spamming acid bombs immediately but gotta go pass a group of humans. Building in boxes makes it goes for a draw instead of a PURE lose. Bases can make draws, humans do the winning.

[Lava Croft]

Just for your information, bases with only one entry point are prone to failure.

[Atom Eve]

What would you know, Lava? You aren't an Enginner like Crazie Coward here.

[Revan]

Real builders don't talk, they build. And build. And build some more.

I take it you don't build much.

Just for your information, bases with only one entry point are prone to failure.

Ah.. brilliant! Everyone knows that. I do not know what base you were talking about, but if you were referring to ele there is the vent.

[Survivor]

Box is much better than the default as its 1 way out, where aliens cant come spamming acid bombs immediately but gotta go pass a group of humans. Building in boxes makes it goes for a draw instead of a PURE lose.

A good thing to do while trying to enter a discussion in a thread is actually reading the previous posts. Although in long threads this might be hard, in those like this ones it's expected.

And trust me when I say Lava has built enough in his trem gaming career, just to spare you an insult from his side.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

Box is much better than the default as its 1 way out, where aliens cant come spamming acid bombs immediately but gotta go pass a group of humans. Building in boxes makes it goes for a draw instead of a PURE lose.

A good thing to do while trying to enter a discussion in a thread is actually reading the previous posts. Although in long threads this might be hard, in those like this ones it's expected.

And trust me when I say Lava has built enough in his trem gaming career, just to spare you an insult from his side.

+1...

listen to the old boys a little bit, they might know something you don't.
debating with them might be healthy, but don't call them noobs.

i am thinking about what would be a good way to do some rating amongst builders.
i guess if a committe would give points to the builders by random-time spectating, it would be nice.

[yetshi]

decided to take a look.

most bases in your zip file are over 100 bps.

the building is all moot, not realistic bases.

FWTW, your layouts are ok even if they are over 100.

instead of the grating in karith try slow door it works better.

[Dracone]

Always remember that good places for a base are not always those that are best for defense. There are bases that are much easier to defend than almost all the other possible, logical bases in a map. That doesn't mean shit if you can't attack from them.

You always want a base with high offensive capabilities, something that allows you to move out quickly, but in a way such that you can take out aliens that would force you to get back in and heal in a relatively short time. You should never limit yourself to thinking that just because a base has a lot of potential for defense that it will be a good base. The best defensive bases can be the worst bases sometimes because you can't do shit from them really.

A good example is the room inside the ATCS middle bunker. Now, I'm not saying you can't win from that base, any base can be won from under the right conditions and abilities on the part of either team. Unless you glitch it in lava or something.    Anyhow, this base area is pretty good for stopping alien attacks when built correctly. However, notice all the angles the aliens can watch from, and how many ways out past them you've got. They can keep you stuck in there for awhile. What's worse is they got that huge wall over the doorway and they can build, and if they do that you're pretty much royally fucked until you take all of that shit down.

However, it's not the total end. There is one plus to that base on the part of attacking for the humans, and that's the shortened distance from the usual alien base, via mid route. But it comes with a price: You've gotta trek back to your own base to go hall for a two-pronged attack or any switch-ups.

[Despairation]

Wow, I read this whole thread, and now my eyes hurt.

Anyways,

aliens cant come spamming acid bombs

Since when do aliens have acid bombs? Don't tell me you're playing on Tremx as well as >100bp servers.

Bases can make draws, humans do the winning.

Not if the humans can't get out. This guy isn't one of the brightest people. 

[The Crazie Coward]

Since when do aliens have acid bombs? Don't tell me you're playing on Tremx as well as >100bp servers.

I am refering to those acid shots from Adv goons if you do get smart enugh to understand.
 

Not if the humans can't get out. This guy isn't one of the brightest people. 

There is always a way out. It just takes time to find the shortest route and when aliens go low on evos. I had humans from boxes in tremor go running to aliens and sawed their OM. We won because of that.

decided to take a look.

most bases in your zip file are over 100 bps.

the building is all moot, not realistic bases.

FWTW, your layouts are ok even if they are over 100.

instead of the grating in karith try slow door it works better.

Why you guys woudn't show your bases? Youve said mine stinks, sucks, but you never show your own built bases.

[Knocks]

Why you guys woudn't show your bases? Youve said mine stinks, sucks, but you never show your own built bases.

I read the thread and I also wonder why no one will post screenshots of a so called better base.
Do alot of complaining without proof of your own base layouts...