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Author Topic: About the Adv. Marauder zap attack  (Read 20039 times)

SLAVE|Mietz

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2006, 05:55:14 am »
Quote from: "PHREAK"
I don't use the chaingun at all so I wouldnt know, but las gun and mass are the best ones against maras, in my opinion. SG can take care of a mara, but not a good mara. If it's me as mara vs. a human with SG, chances are I'm the one left alive.


Its allways a question of skill, allmost every good player can take down a noob Tyrant even if he is naked.
I could say the same about massdriver, if i'm a mara and you hold a massdriver, chances are high i win :)

While lasgun is just another "hold-that-fire-button-and-never-let-go" it just drains the marauder over a longer period (200 clip, and slow fire rate, the possibility you hit "something" is bigger), just like the chaingun, fire and forget, if only 1/4 of your clip hits the target, its dead.
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Stof

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2006, 09:03:41 am »
Quote from: "PHREAK"
I don't use the chaingun at all so I wouldnt know, but las gun and mass are the best ones against maras, in my opinion. SG can take care of a mara, but not a good mara. If it's me as mara vs. a human with SG, chances are I'm the one left alive.

That my friend, is what we, the good SG using humans, want you to believe 8)

Shotgun is the best weapon against Mara in my opinion. Chaingun is for Dragoon and Tyrants with not so bad performance against Marauder. SG works very good for all aliens and it is so cheap :)
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

[HUN]N.M.I.

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2006, 09:33:43 am »
...but Luci is the best, just aim at the ground where the Mara will land and BOOM... Splat! :D
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next_ghost

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2006, 12:00:13 pm »
I don't like to meet lonely shotgunners with armor and helmet as a marauder. But when he has some friends with him, it's much more fun... for me of course :wink:
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hodge

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2006, 06:14:30 pm »
A full discharge headshot zap from a auder can kill a naked human with 100hp? I've played around abit on boring 1vs1 game's and I have seen it first hand, perhaps a more experienced player or a developer will put his 2 cents on the subject. I think thats how the game was designed, what might happend is that the if u zap directly above the human the zap does head + 1/2 body damage but that's my wild guess. I guess someone will have too look closely at the source code to figure that out.

Also I agree with the statement that more humans should use shotgun + helm and light armor against Marauders.
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Neo

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2006, 06:21:54 pm »
I don't think zap actually registers a path as it travels, it just locks onto a persons torso while in range.
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WoodenJesus

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2006, 02:23:15 pm »
When i play as adv mara i'm always killing naked humans with only 1 zap (im zapping when jumping over human, staying near him until zap end, and when is end human is already dead  ) :wink:

Sorry for my poor english, you can correct me if you whant  :roll:
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Survivor

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2006, 03:06:33 pm »
From experience I know it doesn't happen and I tested it just now and confirmed there are NO 1 zap kills. Most likely a dretch hit him before you or someone slashes just before he zaps.

If you don't believe me just do as I always do when testing.

Start first tremulous.
/devmap atcs
/g_humanstage 2
/g_alienstage 2
join humans, spawn, put model somewhere in middle

ctrl+alt+ del
Minimize first tremulous
Start tremulous a second time
connect, instead of internet choose local. Join your own server.
join aliens
/give funds 9
evolve to advanced marauder
sit on top of head+zap/ jump+zap do as you please. QED, There are NO 1 ZAP KILLS.
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Stof

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2006, 04:43:34 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
From experience I know it doesn't happen and I tested it just now and confirmed there are NO 1 zap kills. Most likely a dretch hit him before you or someone slashes just before he zaps.

I have been one hit killed by Adv Marauders on a game with 2 aliens : one Adv Marauder and the other play was never seen, probably builder. In that situation, and considering I was freshly spawned, it was probably some lag problem or maybe some special trick for the one hit kill like the trick to do a headshot with a dretch standing on the ground.
Quote from: "Survivor"
sit on top of head+zap/ jump+zap do as you please. QED, There are NO 1 ZAP KILLS.

Bah, your test doesn't take into account the lag, one of the players is special since he is the server and in all cases, the fact that you couldn't reproduce a bug doesn't mean it doesn't exist ;)
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Survivor

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2006, 05:04:55 pm »
When people say they do it constantly I doubt it'd be a bug. Lag does not factor into zap damage calculation as far as I know and since I tested it while sitting right on top of the human head and the human still survived the headshot damage multiplier doesn't come into play. The only way lag could come into play is if he slashed you, you didn't notice it and he zapped right after.
Now you show me the way. I play marauder enough to know it's already hard enough to stay in range while being shot and I've never had a confirmed one zap kill.
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Stof

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2006, 05:15:51 pm »
Myself, I haven't seen anyone do it consistently that's for sure ! If someone here can really do it with a 100% succes rate, then he has to tell us how it's done !

Else, there just isn't enouth proof of bug yet.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

hodge

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2006, 05:15:53 pm »
Quote from: "Survivor"
From experience I know it doesn't happen and I tested it just now and confirmed there are NO 1 zap kills. Most likely a dretch hit him before you or someone slashes just before he zaps.

If you don't believe me just do as I always do when testing.

Start first tremulous.
/devmap atcs
/g_humanstage 2
/g_alienstage 2
join humans, spawn, put model somewhere in middle

ctrl+alt+ del
Minimize first tremulous
Start tremulous a second time
connect, instead of internet choose local. Join your own server.
join aliens
/give funds 9
evolve to advanced marauder
sit on top of head+zap/ jump+zap do as you please. QED, There are NO 1 ZAP KILLS.

I know that damages arn't random but I actually did exactly what Survivor said and set up a server with a friend who ran around as a naked human. I zapped him without slashing with a full discharge 15 times. Of the 15 times I killed him with a single full discharge zap twice.  I'm still not sure how the human got that extra 20 damange.
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Stof

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2006, 05:18:36 pm »
Quote from: "hodge"
Quote from: "Survivor"
From experience I know it doesn't happen and I tested it just now and confirmed there are NO 1 zap kills. Most likely a dretch hit him before you or someone slashes just before he zaps.

If you don't believe me just do as I always do when testing.

Start first tremulous.
/devmap atcs
/g_humanstage 2
/g_alienstage 2
join humans, spawn, put model somewhere in middle

ctrl+alt+ del
Minimize first tremulous
Start tremulous a second time
connect, instead of internet choose local. Join your own server.
join aliens
/give funds 9
evolve to advanced marauder
sit on top of head+zap/ jump+zap do as you please. QED, There are NO 1 ZAP KILLS.

I know that damages arn't random but I actually did exactly what Survivor said and set up a server with a friend who ran around as a naked human. I zapped him without slashing with a full discharge 15 times. Of the 15 times I killed him with a single full discharge zap twice.  I'm still not sure how the human got that extra 20 damange.

So, there is still some suspicion. Could you do the same test but the human will use some armour and compare the amount of damage done each time. Maybe we'll see some pater emerging ( like : 20 damage always except sometimes you get  26 and sometimes 28 ) If that happens like that, it probably mean the alien attack can chain on the same target.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Neo

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2006, 07:35:46 pm »
I think it might be lag related, something to interfere with the timers for the zap. As I managed to pull it off to my suprise on the db@ test server playing pulse70, although the server was stuttering at the time.
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next_ghost

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2006, 07:49:36 pm »
I think I've solved the mystery: g_weapon.c lines 1166-1167:

Code: [Select]
         damage = ceil( ( (float)msec / LEVEL2_AREAZAP_TIME ) *
              LEVEL2_AREAZAP_DMG * damageFraction );

Quake3 engine runs this piece of code 20 times a second. Each time, damage dealt to the first zap target should be equal to 4. Notice that the damage franction is ceiled, not rounded. If the server has a few more players moving, shooting etc. all at the same time, it's guaranteed msec will NOT be less than  or equal to 50 (1000 / 20 = 50). It'll be always slightly more so the damage fraction will ceil to 5 and bang, here comes 20 extra damage. And it also explains why this won't trigger on a two-player server. It's not loaded enough.
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If my answer to your problem doesn't seem helpful, it means I won't help you until you show some effort to fix your problem yourself!
1.2.0 release's been delayed for 5:48:00 already because of stupid questions.

Survivor

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2006, 07:56:11 pm »
Submitted it to bugzilla yet? This is an unintended consequence if I ever saw one.
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Stof

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2006, 08:49:51 pm »
Hey, that's exactly what Happened today : I could see my healt drop 5 HP by 5 HP and bam, I was dead :)
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

tjw

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2006, 10:37:15 pm »
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next_ghost

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2006, 01:30:50 pm »
Quote from: "tjw"
https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2735


Changing ceil() to round() should work too with a little damage fraction twiddling.

Right now, damage is dealt this way:
r = 1/traget_count
fraction = 2*r - 2*target*r*r - r*r

1 target - 4hp (1 = 4.0 ceiled)
2 targets - 3hp (3/4 = 3.0 ceiled), 1hp (1/4 = 1.0 ceiled)
3 targets - 3hp (5/9 = 2.22 ceiled), 2hp (3/9 = 1.33 ceiled), 1hp (1/9 = 0.44 ceiled)

These numbers also don't cope with manual.
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If my answer to your problem doesn't seem helpful, it means I won't help you until you show some effort to fix your problem yourself!
1.2.0 release's been delayed for 5:48:00 already because of stupid questions.

hodge

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About the Adv. Marauder zap attack
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2006, 04:55:48 pm »
Quote from: "next_ghost"
I think I've solved the mystery: g_weapon.c lines 1166-1167:

Code: [Select]
         damage = ceil( ( (float)msec / LEVEL2_AREAZAP_TIME ) *
              LEVEL2_AREAZAP_DMG * damageFraction );

Quake3 engine runs this piece of code 20 times a second. Each time, damage dealt to the first zap target should be equal to 4. Notice that the damage franction is ceiled, not rounded. If the server has a few more players moving, shooting etc. all at the same time, it's guaranteed msec will NOT be less than  or equal to 50 (1000 / 20 = 50). It'll be always slightly more so the damage fraction will ceil to 5 and bang, here comes 20 extra damage. And it also explains why this won't trigger on a two-player server. It's not loaded enough.

I think your right, Usually I get the dreaded 100 dmg zap against a naked human with alot of players running around. Everyone should thank Next_ghost for solving this mystery.
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