Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: GregariousJB on December 09, 2009, 11:41:38 pm
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Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents on my experience thus far with Tremulous. Less than an hour ago I had never heard of it before, now I have the 1.1 installer ready to go. It looks like a great game, but I almost turned away when I couldn't find the download for the new 1.2 beta. I was surprised anyone thought it was a good idea to call it a "gameplay preview", since this vernacular is always attributed to videos, not patches.
It's easy to find the 1.1.0 installer, since it is identified as "Version 1.1.0" in the download page and even the file name has "1.1.0" within it, but I went looking on ModDB and this main website for anything that resembled "1.2" or "beta" or "patch", and I've found nothing except for a link to your download page here (http://tremulous.net/files/) that doesn't contain any of those words (or numbers). I assume the acronym "gpp1" has the word "patch" in it somewhere, but first timers wouldn't know that. Besides, I figured it was a gameplay preview, not a patch.
Though there may only be a handful of people less intelligent than I, my recommendation is to make it 100% obvious that "this" link or "this" file is THE new 1.2 "BETA" or "PATCH". If you really want a larger audience for this game, you'll have to think about every tiny detail that might make it just a little less easy to make that happen.
I imagine this post will come off as arrogant and angry, but I assure you, I am not angry. I'm only trying to be of some small assistance with a project that I already hold in high regard (even if I despise the game - any open-source game of this magnitude is a fantastic addition to the gaming community. It has the potential to teach generations of young brilliant minds and can lead to some amazing things happening in my gaming future).
If this post is ignored - oh well. This is your game and you decide how to promote it.
Thank you for your time.
-G
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GPP stands for game play preview, it's called that as the beta is mainly testing new balance changes.
The files page also fails to say that you need 1.1.0 installed before the beta (except for mac who get a full installer).
/me pokes khalsa to fix it some more.
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Ah, thank you for this post.
It is absolutely essential to have new players give first-impression feedback when newly joining a game.
Well, enjoy your stay at Tremulous, it'll be nice to have you around; PM me if you have any questions about the game. ;)
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Welcome to the forums (and the game)!
It's pleasant to see a newcomer who knows how to be productive. ;) I wish you well. Have fun in-game, and thanks for the intelligent feedback.
(There are plenty of us forum oldies around to help you if you've got any issues, in-game or out. I'm available for PM, too.)
Later, G. ;D
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even if I despise the game
Would you elaborate on this please? What makes this game so despicable? Oh and welcome of course. :)
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hey phatcakes! wussup?
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even if I despise the game
Would you elaborate on this please? What makes this game so despicable? Oh and welcome of course. :)
He means even _IF_ he will despise the gameplay, he will still support trem cuz it's open source and stuff.
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even if I despise the game
Would you elaborate on this please? What makes this game so despicable? Oh and welcome of course. :)
He means even _IF_ he will despise the gameplay, he will still support trem cuz it's open source and stuff.
PhoeniX is right. As I mentioned in my OP, I hadn't played the game yet when I posted this new thread.
Thank you all for the overwhelming welcome! I do reviews like this from time to time for different entities (not just games), and my usual response is "GTFO". It's a pleasant change to see developers who actually regard constructive criticism with enthusiasm.
If you need me to elaborate on anything, I'm more than happy to oblige.
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Intelligent introductions deserve warm welcomes. ;)
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For the sake of curiosity, how do you enjoy Trem so far? 1.1 servers are largely kaput. Dead. Deceased. [we] Would love to know if I see you in-game (go beta client!). Do you go by G/GJB/Greg/Gragarious?
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Intelligent introductions deserve warm welcomes. ;)
Thanks for the compliment. Now that introductions are out of the way, what is the general consensus of my OP?
I thought I'd throw in my first impression of my first hour of gameplay, as well:
After booting up the game I was greeted with a blazing fast load up time. Within seconds I'm on the menu screen - AWESOME!
However, the menu screen only had 3 options - Play, Mods, and Exit. I noticed the resolution was set very low (I'm assuming 800 x 600) to the point where my 37" LG TV (which I use as a monitor) was cutting off the edges. The lack of an "Options" menu got me worried. I tried hitting the ESC key, but it only gave me an option to Exit. I started to wonder if there was an Option menu hiding in the far corners of my screen that were hidden from the mismatched resolution, so I used my cursor to feel around the edges to see if anything lit up or gave me a mouse-over noise. Nothing. I resigned myself to ALT+TABing out to look for a resolution, but upon doing so the main game window didn't go away. I could use my mouse and see my taskbar (I use Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit by the way), but I couldn't force the game window to let me see my browser, so I had to re-AlT-TAB back into the game and click on "Exit", then click "Yes" on the confirmation window.
Luckily I was able to Google "tremulous resolution" and find 3 different console commands needed to change it. The problem was, I couldn't just ALT+TAB from the game to Google to copy/paste the command because I knew the menu screen wouldn't let me, so I was forced to copy/paste a single line, open the game, open the console, paste the line and change it how I wanted it, hit enter, fully exit out of the game, then redo this process until I had all 3 console commands entered. At last! 1920 x 1080 resolution.
I clicked "Play", and the server browser pops up. Finally! I "Get New List" and it quickly loads a very large number of servers. A few clicks to change the filters and the number decreases to only servers that have players. I then decided to organize the browser list by Ping to get the fastest server, but clicking on "Ping" only seemed to swap the topmost server back and forth between 2 servers - it didn't change the whole list. Frowning, I clicked on "Players", which organized the dozens of servers instantly by the number of players alternatively in ascending or descending order. Cool. I clicked on "Ping" again but had the same error. Oh well, I'll just manually look at the ping for each server and pick one with a nice group of people and a low ping.
...it's time for my class so I need to cut this short, and I have a feeling this post is long enough as it is. If it's wanted, I'll continue this review with a new player's experience with the gameplay.
Plague Bringer - I noticed you replied to my post while I was writing this review. I'll get back to you after my class!
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It sounds like you're playing 1.1 not the beta?
(Random thought: does the beta installer fix the shortcuts in the menus?)
The beta has working sort by ping, an options button, and a lot less servers :).
Still has a crap default res, but everyone is ignoring the bug (http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4375) I posted.
I'm sure 640x480 was considered lame 10 years ago when q3 was released >_>.
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It sounds like you're playing 1.1 not the beta?
(Random thought: does the beta installer fix the shortcuts in the menus?)
The beta has working sort by ping, an options button, and a lot less servers :).
Still has a crap default res, but everyone is ignoring the bug (http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4375) I posted.
I'm sure 640x480 was considered lame 10 years ago when q3 was released >_>.
If the fonts are unreadable at 640x480 you should remove that resolution. But unreadability is related to the fonts; mainly because q3 scales the fonts up and down according to your resolution. Font drawing is not precise.
But I don't think it is a bug, just bad choice of font ;)
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I agree with much of what you have said, and have been aware (and too busy to do much about much of it) for a while.
Thanks for you feedback, hope to kill you on the official servers soon.
Khalsa
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It sounds like you're playing 1.1 not the beta?
(Random thought: does the beta installer fix the shortcuts in the menus?)
I take it you're referring to adding the options.. option? If so, yes. Also adds a NEWS button, which brings up a window that sums up the frontpage of Tremulous.net (which is nice).
@ OP; Yup, no problem. You'll notice that when you get into a server you'll have access to your OPTIONS. Also (just a thought), it might be a good idea to start off on the beta client, as it fixes the OPTIONS button not showing up on the main menu (as stated above). It also features (relatively) final balance changes for the next version (which should be coming SOON™ (http://mirror.mercenariesguild.net/planettremulous/)). The servers are populated with relatively good players (though I can't stand games with less or more than 3 or 7 people per team [respectively, ofc]; I find it's just crowded), because only decent players (I.E. forum goers) can find the D/L link. Haha.
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I meant short cuts like in the start menu / desktop / wherever they get added. The beta uses a different executable so it needs to be obvious to run the right one.
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Its very obvious on the mac :D
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You'll notice that when you get into a server you'll have access to your OPTIONS. Also (just a thought), it might be a good idea to start off on the beta client, as it fixes the OPTIONS button not showing up on the main menu (as stated above).
Yeah, I found this out too late. And I have the beta client, I just assumed it installed itself and I was playing it. That's where the next part of my review comes in...
...So I've just joined my first Tremulous game (within seconds - again, awesome), and I'm greeted with a Spectator view of the battleground. Immediately I see in the bottom-left corner that I have a number of buttons to hit to choose how to enter the game (very nice for newcomers). I hit my CTRL key and pick the Alien team.
I'll fast forward a bit because I'm not sure how I feel about the gameplay. I don't think I've played it enough to get a feel for it, and honestly I have no idea what my objective is other than to kill the other team. These are questions that I know will eventually answer themselves. The fact that these questions aren't answered immediately are subject to your opinion of whether or not they should be. Do you want to make it easy for newcomers to understand the object of the game, or would you prefer they do some digging in your forums/website/manual for more information first?
I'll fast forward to when I quit the server about an hour later, and before I exited the game I glanced down at the Copyright information and noticed the end year was 2006. This made me wonder if my version was truly 1.2, or if I was using the original 1.1.
I clicked on the "Mods" menu button out of curiosity and lo and behold, "gpp1" is there in the list. Damn. I guess I was playing 1.1 this whole time. I click on the gpp1 mod and load it... my screen turns white and it hangs, giving me an error that it can't find "ui/menus.txt". Sigh.
I'm still more than happy to troubleshoot and continue playing, I just hope this small scenario has given the developers an idea of a newcomer's experience. I'm sure many of these issues are addressed in the 1.2 beta (which I'll find time to play tonight), but I happen to be a newcomer with a fairly high amount of computer knowledge. That being said, I can promise you that you've had new players try your game and drop it NOT because of gameplay, but because of the lack of small, easy-to-fix explanations that only veteran players understand.
For example, if I wasn't the curious type, I would have assume that I was playing the 1.2 beta after installing it, since this is usually what happens to a game when you run a file that talks about being a beta patch. Now I know why this is called a Gameplay Preview, but I cannot begin to stress the importance of making this distinction to your new clientele. If people don't know how to access it, all these new features will be missed by some of the people who have never played Tremulous before. To make matters worse, people may leave assuming they can't play with the resolution they want (which I hear is fixed in 1.2, but if they can't find it... it's a vicious snowball, and I think you get the picture).
Again, sorry for the wall of text. I'm merely trying to land home a point. You already have this game built around a majority of systems (except for my Netbook :-[ ). Now if you build it around a broad range of technological aptitudes, you'll give servers a lasting, healthy supply of people. You don't need to treat potential players like idiots, but it might be better to treat them all like they don't frequently install games.
Just to reiterate: I'm still more than interested in trying this game out (when I get home tonight), and this review is only meant as a newcomer's perspective. I'm not angry and I'm certainly not trying to be disrespectful. I still hold this project in the highest regard.
Thanks again for lending me your eyes.
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Gpp comes with a new client, the 1.1 client can't run gpp's stuff as something or other is changed.
There should be a new menu item for it or something somewhere, but I don't have a windows box around to test.
I agree it should be easier >_>
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Assuming you are on windows, to play Gameplay Preview, it is in your trem folder. so I go start -> all programs -> Tremulous -> Tremulous Gameplay Preview
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Its great to hear your experience with Tremulous GregariousJB, you made me remember how crappy Tremulous deals with new players.
Its true, Tremulous isn't the most user-friendly game in the world.
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Yet somehow we still get droves of morons into the servers...
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Spork, you nailed it on the head, man.
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Its true, Tremulous isn't the most user-friendly game in the world.
I'm probably the only one, but this reason is what made Trem fun for me when I started. The steep learning curve motivated me to figure out why things worked the way they did (or did not). :)
edit: grammar
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Its true, Tremulous isn't the most user-friendly game in the world.
I'm probably the only one, but this reason is what made Trem fun for me when I started. The steep learning curve motivated me to figure out why things way they did (or did not). :)
This is the reason I'm still here. I have an invariable desire to understand, to learn, and to figure out how things work. Unfortunately, you and I are a minority. Everyone else I know would've tossed their hands up in frustration and uninstalled the game.
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Haha, same here I suppose. Most of my friends are console gamers, so PC games that I show them have to be, at times, idiot friendly. :D
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GregariousJb, look into installing a custom hud. It should fix a lot of the menu problems and make trem abit more friendly. Hud Catalog (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=5481.0)
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And none of them work with the beta.
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And none of them work with the beta.
None of them need to work. The beta already has the only menu option I needed.
khalsa - Sorry man, I completely passed over your post. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and it's good to hear that you agree. If you ever want me to give more detail on how to make this game noob-friendly on your website or at ModDB, just holler. You're pretty high up on the totem pole and I'm sure you've been up there a while, so I know it can be super helpful to get some further insight from a newbie who could fill you in on his perspective at the bottom :)
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GregJB - You are an example for people everywhere. I wish everyone could be like you. I wish I was more like you.
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You're right, you know - the more "idiot friendly" a game is, the less depth it has. Tremulous has depth
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You're right, you know - the more "idiot friendly" a game is, the less depth it has. Tremulous has depth
That's just a cheap way of making the learning curve sound good. -.-
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You're right, you know - the more "idiot friendly" a game is, the less depth it has. Tremulous has depth
That's just a cheap way of making the learning curve sound good. -.-
I think it's helpful to distinguish between breadth and depth. A broad but shallow game is one that has many different things to learn and to do, but not very much strategy in using any of them. Likewise, a game with a small set of simple, easy to understand rules can have extraordinarily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_strategy_and_tactics) nuanced strategy. Neither is necessarily better, but I think it shows that there is no correlation between how easy a game is to start playing and how long one can keep playing it before learning everything there is to know.
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You're right, you know - the more "idiot friendly" a game is, the less depth it has. Tremulous has depth
That's just a cheap way of making the learning curve sound good. -.-
I think it's helpful to distinguish between breadth and depth. A broad but shallow game is one that has many different things to learn and to do, but not very much strategy in using any of them. Likewise, a game with a small set of simple, easy to understand rules can have extraordinarily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_strategy_and_tactics) nuanced strategy. Neither is necessarily better, but I think it shows that there is no correlation between how easy a game is to start playing and how long one can keep playing it before learning everything there is to know.
Agreed. No one want's "depth" when trying to install a game. Half-Life 2 has depth, but its easy for anyone to pick up and start playing.