Tremulous Forum
General => Official Servers => Topic started by: F50 on May 17, 2010, 08:46:39 pm
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Feel free to post topics proposing maps be added to the rotation. That deserves higher scrutiny than vote-able maps.
UTCS -- 9th most played map on US1 and appears to be balanced on tremstats (admittedly not so on the EU server, but nevertheless).
1984b4 -- another well played map (12/15 depending on US/EU server stats) and appears to be balanced on the EU server.
If a few areas could be denybuilded (such as *inside the lava* in the geothermal core, and preferably the lava dam as well), thermal would also be a nice map to have.
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Why deny building in the lava at the geothermal core? The humans that game may have won, but that was only one game.
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1984 isn't that good of a gameplay. Humans usually have no business to outside before S2 and aliens get massacred in the underground tunnels. Not really fun to play in my opinion.
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Why deny building in the lava at the geothermal core? The humans that game may have won, but that was only one game.
Because that is a map bug. Are humans are supposed to be immune to lava if they decide to build buildings there?
1984 isn't that good of a gameplay. Humans usually have no business to outside before S2 and aliens get massacred in the underground tunnels. Not really fun to play in my opinion.
I don't really find the tunnels to be that bad for aliens. Sure dretches can find themselves in a bit of trouble, and large groups of humans are very effective there, but even then the aliens can choose where the combat takes place. Outside is a more difficult situation with jetcamping and a general human obliviousness to how dangerous it can be in s1, however. Nevertheless I think its a matter of taste. I usually enjoy games there, and I think its relative popularity might say something there.
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I don't mind 1984, but I think it isn't balanced enough.
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The only maps I can think of worth including are utcs and thanatos.
Since atcs is in the rotation and similar to utcs a good way to review the map is to compare the two. On atcs the long hallway between bases can be problematic for aliens because it offers no chance to flank the humans and the aliens have to close a long distance before they can reach humans unless they corner camp. There is the middle area that's better for aliens but most humans don't go there forcing the aliens to engage them in the hallway. There are a lot more possibilities for aliens to flank humans on utcs. Instead of there being two separate ways to bases all routes are connected to middle area that allow better mobility for aliens. For example engaging the humans from front and behind simultaneously are easy with good timing. The drawback is that there is no way to attack undetected if there are players in the middle but overall it works a lot better. So basically what I'm saying is that utcs is a better atcs and since atcs is in the rotation there is no reason utcs shouldn't be.
Thanatos has decent layout and it's not too big. It's easy to navigate the map because of good connectivity which is important for aliens. The default bases have two routes to enter them and often no matter where you are in the map there are more than one way to go to a certain point in the map. The only problem is the shortest route between default bases. It's hard to flank humans until they are in the room next to alien base. Still it's possible if the aliens want to risk going past the human base. The situation is somewhat comparable to atcs long hallway. Overall a good map in my opinion.
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Thanatos has only one problem, quite, let's say, challenging alien base(s). But it would be worth adding in my opinion.
the aliens can choose where the combat takes place.
I wonder if that statement is true.. Humans can just keep pushing to the underground tunnel towards alien default, therefore making them choose where it takes place.
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Thanatos is a good pick.
UTCS is a really dull map, preferably it should stay out. Comparing it with ATCS is not fair, the only resemblance between the two are the small size.
I think the rotation could be changed every week or so to feature new maps. If the map is popular and the balance is decent it could become permanent.
Over the time the map list would grow larger and might eventually be some kind of indication what should be bundled in 1.2.
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There are enough similarities to make comparing utcs and atcs fair. Not liking a map because you think it's dull is fine but if it's balanced and fun for most players it should be included.
I think we get enough testing of the new maps without changing the rotation. People vote maps outside rotation a lot. Adding something like procyon to the rotation is something i would like to keep in my nightmares and not in the waking world.
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There are enough similarities to make comparing utcs and atcs fair. Not liking a map because you think it's dull is fine but if it's balanced and fun for most players it should be included.
I think we get enough testing of the new maps without changing the rotation. People vote maps outside rotation a lot. Adding something like procyon to the rotation is something i would like to keep in my nightmares and not in the waking world.
The basic layout is completely different, UTCS consists of one big middle area which everyone has to pass, whilst ATCS has two separate ways. The maps are fundamentally different.
Also, at least in 1.1, ATCS is a decently balanced map, whilst UTCS is horribly human biased. I don't know how the situation is in 1.2, but I can imagine it's the same.
With new maps in the rotation i meant more maps like thanatos, meep and sectorb17.
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They are different but not different enough to call them fundamentally different. There are enough similarities as i said.
You want to include those maps to the rotation but you aren't the one who decides what maps are put there.
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There are enough similarities to make comparing utcs and atcs fair. Not liking a map because you think it's dull is fine but if it's balanced and fun for most players it should be included.
That's what I'm thinking, but it seems cadynum disagrees. Perhaps a clarification of just what the requirements for a rotation map are would be useful here.
The basic layout is completely different, UTCS consists of one big middle area which everyone has to pass, whilst ATCS has two separate ways. The maps are fundamentally different.
Agreed. They have their similarities, but that's quite different even from nano's layout.
Also, at least in 1.1, ATCS is a decently balanced map, whilst UTCS is horribly human biased. I don't know how the situation is in 1.2, but I can imagine it's the same.
I thought at one time it was human biased, however the default human base location is deceptively and often fatally weak (much weaker than 1.1), and there aren't really any nicely sized rooms that strike me as a great base location.
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ATCS and UTCS 100%. I may be alone in this, but whatever.......
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Ok guys,
Liberous was a joke, funny yes, but a joke. The map you made for the joke was also funny, but like all good things they must end. Please remove the liberous map from the official servers please. They are getting voted, and they aren't ''real'' maps. They have some major balance problems and everyone always f1's it.
Thanks,
Kiwi
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Ok guys,
Liberous was a joke, funny yes, but a joke. The map you made for the joke was also funny, but like all good things they must end. Please remove the liberous map from the official servers please. They are getting voted, and they aren't ''real'' maps. They have some major balance problems and everyone always f1's it.
Thanks,
Kiwi
agreed. Completly.
And if for some strange reason you need a new map to put in it's place, [insert shameless plug here]
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Indeed. There is also this map that uses the titlescreen from transit (!?) and another map who's name isn't at all related to the name of the .pk3 that I feel similarly about. However, isn't this off topic a bit?
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However, isn't this off topic a bit?
Yeah, but I didn't want to start a new topic just for this :)
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Yeah, but I didn't want to start a new topic just for this :)
That may be the only way to get a mod's attention. :P
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That may be the only way to get a mod's attention. :P
Ok, if it doesn't get taken off soon, I'll move it to a new topic.
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Librelous is about as balanced as: Spacetracks, Ancient Remains, Veddak Station, Hamunaptra, Megaprocyon, Uncreation and The bunker. So if you want to remove Librelous for that you may want to get rid of all the others too.
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I don't mind 1984, but I think it isn't balanced enough.
I love this map but I think the mapper Should do a few things to it to make it more balanced.
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Librelous is about as balanced as: Spacetracks, Ancient Remains, Veddak Station, Hamunaptra, Megaprocyon, Uncreation and The bunker. So if you want to remove Librelous for that you may want to get rid of all the others too.
I completely agree, they should be removed, except The bunker, because it has some fun gameplay.
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ow that hurts
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I'm not saying they aren't great maps, and aren't fun to play, it's just that they aren't very balanced.
Edit: Meh, but who cares. If we keep cutting maps because they aren't balanced we'll be left with nothing. I'd say keep them, but liberous has to go.
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No cut maps because they are unbalanced. Or don't cut any for that reason.
Especially cut Veddak station though. Cut it especially hard.