Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Meisseli on June 03, 2010, 10:02:59 am
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The Defence Computer is not strong and useful enough in my opinion.
1) A repair rate of 3 is not useful enough.
2) When human base gets under attack, and reactor is hurt for example, there are 2-3 repairers doing the job. The 3 points added by DC is not worth much.
3) The stackability of DC is not useful. Rarely do humans have a base spacey enough to fit >1 DCs. Those build points could also be used to build more turrets or teslas for example, which when placed well are worth far more than the DC(s).
4) DC takes space an equivalent of for example two teslas. Not a really good thing.
5) For a DC to heal for example 100hp it takes 30 seconds. Something which a single human does in 8 seconds. One would need 3 DCs to make it heal as fast as a human.
6) Yes, DC repairs all the buildings, but it doesn't really matter that much if the turret is 190 hp or 180 hp. What is important is that the key buildings such as reactor, armoury, and so on are kept in a good shape, not that all the buildings have +9 more HP.
Therefore I would like to see improvements to it. More repair rate per second, you could easily triple it and it wouldn't become overpowered. If there's a must to counter the improvement: perhaps the stackability of DCs could be removed if it's too good, since they take space in your base. Or you could add it's cost to become 10BP. Or perhaps a counter would be to make it heal only x max amount of buildables, starting from the most important building to the least important ones.
DC is the biggest concern in GPP 1.2 for me since it isn't useful. It is rarely used, and when it's used, it does no concrete effect to help the human base, to the contrary it takes space and makes another turret/tesla not available because of the 8 BP cost. It feels like 1.1 hovel to me, a 190hp barricade in the human base.
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Or give it a total heal rate which is split between all buildings that need repair, like I suggested somewhere. Another nice thing would be for it to heal nearby buildings slightly faster, so the builder can choose what gets repaired first. This could in some cases make for much more interesting dc locations.
What exactly did you mean with 4) ?
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Or give it a total heal rate which is split between all buildings that need repair, like I suggested somewhere. Another nice thing would be for it to heal nearby buildings slightly faster, so the builder can choose what gets repaired first. This could in some cases make for much more interesting dc locations.
What exactly did you mean with 4) ?
It takes space in the base equivalent of two teslas. In small maps this is a problem too (ATCS, UTCS, perhaps nano)
Oh, and your idea of a total heal rate is really good too.
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Or, if the repair rate would be percent (%) rated?
like, for example, repair rate: 5% per second... Time of total repair, 20 seconds.
Turret gots 190. 5% of its health; 9.5
Tesla has 220. 5% of its health; 11
Or any better ideas? I think it's bit unbalanced.... :P
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I agree that it's repair rate is too slow now, but I'd be careful about raising it too much, or human bases will have too much alien characteristics. How about a different incentive? Make it 4BP, or give it a buttload of body points.... Even with that, repair rate should be more like 5/sec. I don't think the repair should be % based.
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I agree that it's repair rate is too slow now, but I'd be careful about raising it too much, or human bases will have too much alien characteristics. How about a different incentive? Make it 4BP, or give it a buttload of body points.... Even with that, repair rate should be more like 5/sec. I don't think the repair should be % based.
What he said.
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In my opinion dc shouldn't repair buildings at all. It's more fun when humans have to repair buildings manually and alien's buildings regenerate. It makes the gameplay different on each side. If it improved defenses like in 1.1 it would be more interesting. But if it has to stay as a building repairer it definitely needs to repair buildings faster. Low hp repair to all buildings isn't very efficient when you consider that adv.marauders and adv.dragoons both have high damage area attacks. It can rarely heal enough that you need one more zap to destroy a cluster of turrets for example. If it healed one building at a faster rate the building could survive longer against area attacks as well as the slash attack of aliens. So I propose to change the dc to repair hp to a single building equal to the amount of a human repairing a building. It could be useful at maintaining the base and allowing a builder that would otherwise repair the base to attack and it would help in defense if the human base is under constant but not overwhelming pressure.
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It's not designed to help during an attack, it's to prevent slow attrition attacks, and stop you from having to have a permanent mostly-idle builder to keep an eye on the base.
If you are getting attacked a lot, it's probably not worth it. If you are going on the offensive then it can be very handy to not need to pay quite so much attention to the base.
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1 & 5) It's 3 * the number of structures that aren't at full health. And it's not slower on the reactor like the ckit is.
1, 2, & 6) Like David said, they're really for when you're not spending all your time in base defending. They're for the stray marauder that gets a zap in every once in a while but otherwise poses little threat.
3) For the price of one repeater you can build two defense computers that cover half your base...
4) ...unless for some reason you only build cramped bases in tiny rooms? You must have had some specific locations in mind when you wrote this... and besides, some times I specifically use one to block tyrants.
It kind of sounds like you don't play in smaller games very much. Maybe the DC gets less useful as the player load increases? In small enough games just having the warning when your base is under attack is useful enough.
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The DC is great when you want to prevent them from chewing your base up slowly.
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DC is not that much fun to destroy also, what is just as important as to build it ;-)
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1 & 5) It's 3 * the number of structures that aren't at full health. And it's not slower on the reactor like the ckit is.
1, 2, & 6) Like David said, they're really for when you're not spending all your time in base defending. They're for the stray marauder that gets a zap in every once in a while but otherwise poses little threat.
3) For the price of one repeater you can build two defense computers that cover half your base...
4) ...unless for some reason you only build cramped bases in tiny rooms? You must have had some specific locations in mind when you wrote this... and besides, some times I specifically use one to block tyrants.
It kind of sounds like you don't play in smaller games very much. Maybe the DC gets less useful as the player load increases? In small enough games just having the warning when your base is under attack is useful enough.
So what concrete effect does it really have then? It's for the stray marauder that gets a zap in every once in a while you say. Is there really much difference between a building having 170hp or 190hp? For a damage so minimal one either needs to do nothing, or can just repair it in one touch of the conkit. Also is it worth to even bother with that marauder since it can't do anything? It sounds like DC is useful only as an extra since aliens have a bad team and can't win anyway.
For the price of one repeater I could build two teslas that actually kill the alien, aka do something useful.
It sounds like there is no really good use for it at all. Even for a barricade, it's bad. It has the same amount of HP as a turret, a structure that shoots aliens too. That can be used to block rants in ATCS ramp for example. If I really wanted to barricade something I'd go for armoury, for 2 extra bp you get over twice the HP of DC, 420.
I still find no incentive at all to ever build the DC. I'm afraid it will be left unused. I would really like DC having more concrete value. At least in 1.1, when DC was for teslas, people had a reason to snipe it down. Now imagine if you would snipe/try to destroy DC over any other building in your view. I don't think there's anyone who would do it.
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DC also increases RC zap, which is sometimes a good enough reason to build it or for aliens to kill it.
For humans, I find DC very useful if the base gets attacked often, unless the aliens focus on something specific, or if you just don't have/can't afford a dedicated builder. Also, the less players you have, the more needed it is. But it could use some improvement.
About building reps instead: most of the time there are no good places for reps near the base, and outside base will die fast without defenders. Even if there is a spot for a repeater, at SD DC has a good chance of saving a vital structure.
Difference between 170 and 190 hp is that it takes 3 zap(chain)s instead of 4 to kill it.
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So what concrete effect does it really have then?
It lets humans attack more instead of stopping to repair their base after every minor hit. Because if they don't repair that minor damage it could mean losing everything when the next major attack comes.
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So what concrete effect does it really have then?
It lets humans attack more instead of stopping to repair their base after every minor hit. Because if they don't repair that minor damage it could mean losing everything when the next major attack comes.
And I would still argue that minor hit wouldn't affect the outcome at all. I really fail to see the DC as the key building, that without it would quote mean losing everything.
It's a tool for lazy people, sure. But that's when there is no actual danger of the alien team actually being able to kill the human base. Every other time I would build some more useful of a building. Really, repairing those 10hps is what you do while you're waiting for the medi healing. And I would like to repeat 6).
I'm sorry but even still I fail to see DC having any really concrete effect while the other buildings sure have. I repeat my question if it could be improved.
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I just build a 100% percent DC base, and yeah the rate is slow.
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I would really like to see the DC do something else entirely.
I think that it would be interesting to have the DC display the health of vital structures on the HUD, and do nothing more.
It would improve the responsiveness of the human team and make the DC more vital, also while preventing the ever so frustrating lame-hops in games where it is not warranted.
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I would really like to see the DC do something else entirely.
I think that it would be interesting to have the DC display the health of vital structures on the HUD, and do nothing more.
It would improve the responsiveness of the human team and make the DC more vital, also while preventing the ever so frustrating lame-hops in games where it is not warranted.
RC hopping doesn't work when humans are smart enough to have atleast one defender. i think changing the DCC to that would be unfair to aliens also its a little late to do such a big change like that when the balance is so close.
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The question isn't really whether a DC is better than no DC.
It's if it's justified to ever spend 8 precious BP on it.
The answer is no.
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The question isn't really whether a DC is better than no DC.
It's if it's justified to ever spend 8 precious BP on it.
The answer is no.
Yeah....even with a DC there is often still a dedicated engineer around to repair the DC, especially in large games. I always thought that was funny.
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The question isn't really whether a DC is better than no DC.
It's if it's justified to ever spend 8 precious BP on it.
The answer is no.
For me personally it's also a matter of having another important building. Armoury, medi, nodes, reactor are all important, as are the base defenses turrets and teslas. But DC? Meh.
If it's this weak I would personally either improve it or remove it entirely from the game.
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Maye giving it some tesla(not as good as one but..) shock or something ??
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The question isn't really whether a DC is better than no DC.
It's if it's justified to ever spend 8 precious BP on it.
The answer is no.
For me personally it's also a matter of having another important building. Armoury, medi, nodes, reactor are all important, as are the base defenses turrets and teslas. But DC? Meh.
If it's this weak I would personally either improve it or remove it entirely from the game.
Well without a DC I would build a tesla by the reactor almost every game instead, which would have pretty much the same effect.
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After reading the thread (and never having played 1.2), I suggest this (and these suggestions might be too late for 1.2, but the world doesn't end with 1.2, right):
It's a "defense computer" which means that it should have a purpose fitting to its name. It should not have a small tesla zap by itself or something. It's a computer.
The idea that it displays information about the current base state in the HUD is brilliant, I think. Maybe this display should be optional - temporary like the score display in the original client (I never saw a different client in action).
It should display a turret and a tesla icon, a number beside the icons telling how many of these defenses are alive, a little energy bar beside the icons telling the average health of these defenses. A reactor icon with energy bar (could be average health - keep modded servers with several reactors in mind). A node icon with number and average health. Armory icon with number and average health. Definitely a DC icon blablablabla, nuff said.
All icons should flash in some way when that kind of building is under attack. They should also somehow show if one of them is in action (aka shooting etc.)
Additionally, the defense computer should make the hitboxes for turrets slightly smaller - only from the view of the turrets! Because this would increase the probability for angles/situations in which turrets can shoot past other turrets, thus improving the defense situation which sounds kinda like the purpose of the defense computer.
Additionally, it could have a slight healing effect, and there are many options for this, so the following is just one grabbed out of thin air: First heal reactor until it's full. Then, heal the building next to reactor until it's full, and so forth in radius until everything's at full health. Maybe the radius-center should be the energy source (which can be a repeater instead of reactor) and also you'd need an extra defense computer in a remote attack base or it wouldn't be in the same energy radius system, but that might be tricky because of overlapping repeaters (can happen if a repeater falls from a high position).
If the radius-from-energysource(orreactor) option is chosen, it could also display the current radius position in the HUD so you could really kinda see the base situation in your mind.
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It should display a turret and a tesla icon, a number beside the icons telling how many of these defenses are alive, a little energy bar beside the icons telling the average health of these defenses. A reactor icon with energy bar (could be average health - keep modded servers with several reactors in mind). A node icon with number and average health. Armory icon with number and average health. Definitely a DC icon blablablabla, nuff said.
Nice, but a little too busy for everyone's screen. I don't think they should show unless they are being hurt. See below.
All icons should flash in some way when that kind of building is under attack.
YES! I think this is really good. Listen: if a DC is up, I think that a human player should have no hud change except for....
Each structure that is built will have a cartoonish icon that flashes as that buildable takes damage. The color it would flash shows its relative health. So you're going along, suddenly near the bottom of your screen (or top) you see 2 green turrets flash. They flash again, now yellow. again, now orange, then red. By this you know that they are getting zapped or something. There should also be the option to continually flash a buildable icon until it gets repaired. I really like that idea of yours.
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i agree that it is a LITTLE underpowered now, but compaired to 1.1 its better in a way because lets be honest, the only reason most of us got a DC in 1.1 was for telsa, i could see the repair rate increased some, but remember if you up it too much there will be major inbalance (it sounds like some of you arent remembering that you have to kill DCs too when your aliens) I personally will usually make one to sheild the arm/RC from rant charge/goon snipes for a bit as well as give that repair bit that lets you not worry about minor damage.
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Forgive me in advance if this idea is silly, I was in the sun too long today :-\
Perhaps the DC can function as a "Lighting rod" for mara zaps. Inside its field of influence,
the mara zap either has its damage lessened or it no longer functions. While it seems, after
many many more 1.2 games, goons still remain the primary attrition base killers, the mara is the
"keystone cop" version attacker (or maybe just play some benny hill music when a mara attacks:P)
Basically its easier to defend against goons, with base ff on, than an adv mara, its comical.
or the DC acts as a total damage shield, in its field of influence, it lessens all damage done to
structures. Even as an alien player, I can't see this as too op, since aliens structs all regen,
regardless of what structures are near.
I have similar ideas to revive the hovel, shame a gnarly asset like it, remains
unused.
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IMO give the DC a RC like zap.
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So, make it another defensive structure? What if they just gave it more HP so it can be used to block ramps and stuff more effectively?
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The DC is pretty valuable as a ramp blocker right now. Boosting the HP slightly and maybe adding a weak zap (dretch damager level) would be a good idea to try out. I've seen many pub games change when a defense computer is built on the ramp in ATCS and it keeps rants from getting up into the shitty polak built base.
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eh, the armoury is still a better roadblock.
And do you really want DC to be only a barricade?
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Hmm.
Maybe it should increase turret speed or something slight but noticeable?
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eh, the armoury is still a better roadblock.
And do you really want DC to be only a barricade?
No, it will still retain its healing abilities. So, you could build a blocker DC and a turret that will heal itself as it shoots the aliens.
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Well could make it a vital structure by only giving Humans a 'Base is Under Attack' message when a DC is present.
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It's a better barricade than the alien one. And Celestial's right, it could heal the rets around it. Rather useful structure.
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I think buildings around the hovel (that is going to be added again) should be healed twice as fast as normal buildings.
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Enough about barricades, that really isn't its intended purpose and it feeds BP. I think a tesla zap would change the purpose of the defense computer unduly as well. A hud display of buildings would be nice, but that would create more clutter than I would like and would break 999bp (not like I particularly care, but a limit would have to be placed on that cvar). IMO, the question is then: "what is a 'good' regen rate for the defense computer and what should it heal?
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Something not OP but worth getting a DC for. The problem is that H never used to have regenerating buildings, so they're not at all reliant on the DC or its features and they overlook them.
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Something that makes it useful. I'm sorry but healing 3 per second makes it 22 seconds to heal a zap's worth of damage. That is a way too high figure, you can travel to human base twice with a marauder in that time. Not to mention that a human would heal the same amount of damage in 3 seconds.
I would say at least double it. Make the games more interesting by actually having DC worth killing.
Or triple it and limit the amount of buildings healed.
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Lets make it more strategic. How about raise the heal rate to something like 10/sec, and cut the range in half. That way, you get a small group of buildings that you can heal quickly, at the expence of zapability.
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More heal and less range would also require a cost deduction so that more can be built, unless the point is to have the DC extremely valuable to the core of the base. I'd like to see how a 6BP DC would factor in to expansions.
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I'm sorry but healing 3 per second makes it 22 seconds to heal a zap's worth of damage. That is a way too high figure, you can travel to human base twice with a marauder in that time. Not to mention that a human would heal the same amount of damage in 3 seconds.
But you have got it wrong. A human could not heal that damage in three seconds. A decent zap will damage three, perhaps four structures. The defense computer will heal all of it in...22 seconds. A human will take 9-12 seconds to heal that damage, making human repair between 1.7x and 2.4x the speed. Now I'm no expert on either balance or defense computers, so I'm not sure either way, and I'm willing to concede that it wouldn't hurt for defense computers to get a boost, but do at least try to understand how the current one works, and why I like building one in most bases. At 8 structures damaged, in the moment (or after the first wave of) a nasty attack, its healing the base faster than you think.
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I wonder where you got the idea I don't know how a defense computer works.
I wonder also when those 8 structures you say are hurt have the time to heal for those 22 seconds. And that's merely a one zap. One zap worth of damage. 60 damage in 22 seconds. How easy it is to pull off another zap is really what should be wondered too.
Thing is: if there really is a big rush there will be 2-3 repairers doing the job making DC useless.
Thing is: if there is a small rush, a single human can repair all by itself while waiting in the medi queue.
What really could be cool is to make DC actually worth another repairer in your base. Make it useful enough to be almost or even worth another human repairer. Right now it is far from that.
You see, what DC does now is repair all the small little damages that wouldn't even matter. Or repair slow enough that it wouldn't even matter. Dividing the damage repaired around is a silly thing since it could be a useful building repairing those buildings that need the repairing. Instead now, it repairs all the buildings but it takes too long to repair any useful amount to those buildings. It is really useless that every building has +12 more hit points or whatever and it is very important that a select buildings actually have enough hit points to stand up.
All in all,
If one would want DC to be useful, it should be like that extra repairer. Repairing say 2 buildings at a time with a higher repair rate. It could be set to repair the closest buildings first making it tactical where you actually put the building. Right now I have no incentive to destroy the DC because I know when I'm going for the RC those 6 hit points it heals won't matter. What I would like is for the DC to be more of a key building since it is the only one that is not.
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Fine, so make it have short range and fast repair rate. Another idea is to give it constant repair, even when the building is being damaged actively by an alien.
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If DC is kept as a repairer, I still like these ideas the most:
Or give it a total heal rate which is split between all buildings that need repair, like I suggested somewhere. Another nice thing would be for it to heal nearby buildings slightly faster, so the builder can choose what gets repaired first. This could in some cases make for much more interesting dc locations.
Maybe with 25 hp total heal rate?
Tho I got to agree that "Defence Computer" sounds like it would improve defences or something. Maybe rename it? Nanite Control? With a nice particle effect that could be great.
Ofc a building that improves defences would be an important target for aliens, thus making the game more interesting, but it is too late to mess with that for 1.2.
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I wonder where you got the idea I don't know how a defense computer works.
When you choose an example in which the defense computer was not meant to be useful, and then say it is useless (and therefore needs a boost), I do wonder.
I wonder also when those 8 structures you say are hurt have the time to heal for those 22 seconds.
If I recall correctly, the majority of rushes do not involve the entire alien team, especially not until sudden death. Even when the do happen, its usually because someone has managed to cause enough damage to give the aliens an opportunity they don't want to miss. Except for a full scale rush, the aliens will come in waves. This is the reason I consider the defense computer to be an asset worth having. You underestimate the amount of people that repair damage except for large rushes. It was not unusual in my 1.1 days for me to see a turret smoking, with a human camping on top of it, and no one bothering to grab a ckit. Minor damages that don't matter *right now* are ignored to add up over time.
If one would want DC to be useful, it should be like that extra repairer. Repairing say 2 buildings at a time with a higher repair rate. It could be set to repair the closest buildings first making it tactical where you actually put the building. Right now I have no incentive to destroy the DC because I know when I'm going for the RC those 6 hit points it heals won't matter. What I would like is for the DC to be more of a key building since it is the only one that is not.
When you're going for the reactor the defense computer is more than healing, but you know that. Even so, I'd rather have a slower repair rate by a defense computer than have you waste your time repairing, you're kind of a good shot you know. But why must the defense computer be a critical structure? Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?
Now even so I'd like to see how the defense computer would factor into the balance as you suggest. Personally I'd also like to see what would happen of the defense computer's healing rate was just increased to 5 or perhaps even 7 hp/sec. But I think it really comes down to a field test at this point.
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Whenever you build a defense computer, it should kill a random alien.
Mostly dragoons to tyrants. And ones that have more feeds/teamkills than the rest.
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Defense computer is a risky investment because you can't know if it will help enough. If the game is long and aliens are poor at destroying buildings, only damaging them most of the time then perhaps the healing it provides is enough so it's worth the bp. Also when using repeaters to extend the base you need to build more dcs so all buildings are repaired making it even more risky. I would prefer that the dc is something that is always good for sure. Something you want to build as fast as possible as humans and something aliens want to destroy.
What i dislike most about dc is that it's usefulness depends on opponent team skill. If aliens know what they are doing the dc is a waste of bp for sure. If they are bad i don't need the dc to win anyway.
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Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?
I wonder why a structure that was never meant to be individual wouldn't be an incredibly important asset to a base.
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Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?
I wonder why a structure that was never meant to be individual wouldn't be an incredibly important asset to a base.
important!=key. Plague Bringer, if you got to choose one structure for the Adv. goon to snipe-kill, which would it be? Your telenode (of probably two) your armory? your medistation? Or your turret (of maybe 5-8) Turrets are not as important individually, if you tell me you would rather your node, arm, or medi killed than one turret in a standard base, I have to assume you are trolling, as I don't think you an idiot.
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What about the DCC boosting buildables armor. I also like that it gives out a warning message as Knowitall66 pointed out.Or having the DCC recall humans with its Arbiter abilities.
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DC will repair buildings instantly after took damage it should be improved
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I would prefer that the dc is something that is always good for sure. Something you want to build as fast as possible as humans and something aliens want to destroy. [...] If aliens know what they are doing the dc is a waste of bp for sure. If they are bad i don't need the dc to win anyway.
This is the ultimate truth.
F50 - you have not addressed the fact that I won't waste time repairing since it's just another thing to do while waiting in the medi queue.
If there are small damages like that I'll just repair them in no time. If there are major damages there will be repairers and if there are not, DC is slow enough so humans lose anyway.
I want DC to be non-useless building. A building worth building so it just won't be left in the list. Turrets and teslas are very important for a human team. If I see a human base and I have 3 snipes I won't waste them with the DC. I doubt anyone would. I'd aim for anything that I could starting from a priority list that has DC in the very, very deep bottom.
Even giving buildables "shields" (read: extra HP that repairs by itself) like in Starcraft would be a good choice. Or boosting turret and tesla damage/range. I don't know - ultimately the devs decide but I think really a small, small minority does not want the DC to be boosted somehow.
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You have some good arguments. The DC is not recognized as a target for advanced dragoons because it is not important enough. It is not of critical importance. However,
F50 - you have not addressed the fact that I won't waste time repairing since it's just another thing to do while waiting in the medi queue.
If there are small damages like that I'll just repair them in no time. If there are major damages there will be repairers and if there are not, DC is slow enough so humans lose anyway. I want DC to be a non-useless building.
Yes you can heal scratches while waiting to heal, I've done this. Do you really think that all of the work of the defense computer amounts to that? I understand why you think it might be underpowered, but I do not understand why you seem so adamant that the DC does not help *at all*.
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At the least, rename it. Far from it's 1.1 role of actually being a defence computer, it's now a DCC, or Damage Control computer.
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Do you really think that all of the work of the defense computer amounts to that? I understand why you think it might be underpowered, but I do not understand why you seem so adamant that the DC does not help *at all*.
That is my opinion basically, well, I think the DC helps so little it is of no use. I haven't found it good enough to build it at any time. There has always been more priority on more useful buildings such as turrets or teslas.
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I like the shield idea. If the DC actively took damage in place of structures near it, then it would have a far more useful role in defence, and would buy time during alien assaults.
This would make it a sort of parallel to the alien's barricade, a structure that while unimportant itself has to be killed before the critical structures behind it can be.
Failing that, Uniq's idea of a certain regeneration rate spread over all local structures is an improvement over the status quo.
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What about a medkit-like heal rate? So it will only begin repairing X seconds after an attack, repairing starts off at a slow rate and steadily speeds up. That way if aliens are still around they can still take down the structures and if not the base will be fine.
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What about a medkit-like heal rate? So it will only begin repairing X seconds after an attack, repairing starts off at a slow rate and steadily speeds up. That way if aliens are still around they can still take down the structures and if not the base will be fine.
Don't like it. H Base will start to have too many alien characteristics. Maybe, if this effect had a *very* short range, that would be fine.
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What about a DC that you can spend BP to upgrade range, heal rate, etc?
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What I'd much prefer would be a DC that altered the behaviour of defensive structures in an intuitive way: originally it tried to make turrets target different aliens, so that they wouldn't all concentrate fire on one spot (even though strategically that's probably the sensible thing to do). Unfortunately it's quite hard to come up with something subtle but universally useful. Perhaps a working DC would cause turrets to share targeting information: being in range of any one would alert every other to your location. Except that would probably be ridiculously lethal. So um.
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You could make it reduce the time to get a lock? Or maybe only if the DC has LOE to that alien?
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DC is the hovel of humans. It must be removed
Atleast the hovel had a soul.
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DC is the hovel of humans. It must be removed
Not so, the hovel actually had a use (oh look, free barricade!), but it was not used as intended. The defense computer is usually used as intended, but some believe it does not have enough of an effect on the game and that having 8 spare BP would be more useful.
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What I'd much prefer would be a DC that altered the behaviour of defensive structures in an intuitive way: originally it tried to make turrets target different aliens, so that they wouldn't all concentrate fire on one spot (even though strategically that's probably the sensible thing to do). Unfortunately it's quite hard to come up with something subtle but universally useful. Perhaps a working DC would cause turrets to share targeting information: being in range of any one would alert every other to your location. Except that would probably be ridiculously lethal. So um.
How about:
DC can detect aliens out of sight and range (and behind corners), and allow turrets to orient themselves toward the approaching aliens? Spinup would still apply, but you wouldn't be stuck with turrets facing inward from the last dretch kamikazi when the tyrants and maras come a'rushin
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What I'd much prefer would be a DC that altered the behaviour of defensive structures in an intuitive way: originally it tried to make turrets target different aliens, so that they wouldn't all concentrate fire on one spot (even though strategically that's probably the sensible thing to do). Unfortunately it's quite hard to come up with something subtle but universally useful. Perhaps a working DC would cause turrets to share targeting information: being in range of any one would alert every other to your location. Except that would probably be ridiculously lethal. So um.
How about:
DC can detect aliens out of sight and range (and behind corners), and allow turrets to orient themselves toward the approaching aliens? Spinup would still apply, but you wouldn't be stuck with turrets facing inward from the last dretch kamikazi when the tyrants and maras come a'rushin
Not worth 8bp.
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How about some sort of scanner in it, so all aliens in range get hi-lighted and get their health etc above their heads? The turrets could then also use that information to decide who to shoot first.
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Defense computer is the remnant of RTS part of Tremulous. You need it to build teslas. But teslas are not worth their cost.
I'd definitely build DC if teslas were as strong as turrets and cost 8 BPs.</1.1>
You should probably play 1.2 GPP before commenting on changing the Defence Computer in 1.2 GPP....
To the subject itself: or a system that alerts humans of alien presence? Turret #X spotted a marauder...?
It's really hard to think of this kind of improvements compared to some number tweaking, though. Would need a brilliant idea to come by.
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How about it gives all humans aimbot and wallhack around the base.
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</1.1>
1.2 GPP
WAT?
^ I think that's what you meant to say.
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How about some sort of scanner in it, so all aliens in range get hi-lighted and get their health etc above their heads? The turrets could then also use that information to decide who to shoot first.
Turrets in range of the DC should be able to target weakest aliens first, but giving this advantage to the humans might be a bit much. It's worth a try, but supplying target information to turrets seems the best option.
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Hmm.
Maybe it should increase turret speed or something slight but noticeable?
No grangercircling for me?! T_T
Or having the DCC recall humans with its Arbiter abilities.
No way! I want the stasis shield! Or at least, make it a Protoss Carrier.
On topic - I think the DC should enable some protection for the defences. Yes, the armor or more health.
Or, perhaps, get all the hardware out of the DC and use it as a mobile bunker! Ya know, moving shooting DCs should embarass aliens. ;)
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On topic - I think the DC should enable some protection for the defences. Yes, the armor or more health.
Trem doesn't have armor types (PROBLEM?).
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On topic - I think the DC should enable some protection for the defences. Yes, the armor or more health.
Trem doesn't have armor types (PROBLEM?).
Uh oh.
I meant the shield idea expressed here.
Though the armor could be a nice thing to see in trem. :)
I like the idea of armor/damage types model similar to that of Starcraft. Like weapons which deal more damage to large aliens and less damage to smaller ones. But I doubt it should be implemented in Tremulous because there's already sort of a system based on plain effectiveness (chainguns/shotties/lucis are to be used against large aliens and lasguns/MDs/flamer/lucis again against smaller ones).
Anyways, I think we should have some armor types (different armor for buildables and organics). Though alien buildings are too organic. Overall, it's an idea that needs to be heavy refined if someone decides to implement it, lol. :)
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The DC in its current form is useless. Give it a healing capacity that is almost that of alien buildings, because otherwise the human team is always dimished by one person, who has to keep repairing the base, tilting the balance much to the aliens' favour. Mind that in stage 2 the aliens have advanced dragoons which can spit barbs and advanced marauders with their field zap attack, in my opinion, this requires a much harder balancing than is done now. I experienced several times where, once aliens were S2, the human team could not leave the base any longer because they have been kept busy by aliens zapping and barbing their base, even if the humans were S2 themselves, because the DC is worth nothing in the current form.
Give the DC a healing capacity of almost that of alien buildings, do not make them stackable, in higher (not to say unlimited) bp-servers this makes human bases almost indestructible.
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Though if it would be something like making turrets aim the weakest alien I'd still want the tesla to gain some boost since it can be very useful to build a tesla-base in 1.2 GPP.
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As I think more about it, I'm liking the idea to give the DC someway to display information about the enemy, especially HP. It is useful to know how low a particular alien is so you can chase it and kill it instead of having it turn around and kill you.