Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Conzul on July 03, 2010, 04:38:45 am
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There are some things in 1.2 I still don't like.
** The Dretch's regen rate off of creep is painfully slow. If the dretch's value isn't going down, I think it should get a faster regen rate, and a longer pain threshold (how long between when it's hurt and when it starts healing).
** when you have to reset your internet connection during a match, you can reconnect and you are on the same team, but you lose all score and evos. Happens with weak wifi.
** I think the Defense computer :defcomp: is still to weak, I think it needs a pimp in one area or another.
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* i think it would be fine for dretches to get back old regen but i would like to keep it for all other classes(new regen fixed alot of issues with balance tbh)
* some servers you keep your score and i think you always keep your evos or maybe that was a flag isnt hard to add also couldn't ptrc be removed and use players guids instead now(if it hasn't been done i have a bad track record for suggesting doing things that had already been done :p)??
* i dont know maybe it could do a little more i wouldnt boost it too much
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** when you have to reset your internet connection during a match, you can reconnect and you are on the same team, but you lose all score and evos. Happens with weak wifi.
Unless there's some bug I'm unaware of, you do get your score and credits back.
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** when you have to reset your internet connection during a match, you can reconnect and you are on the same team, but you lose all score and evos. Happens with weak wifi.
Unless there's some bug I'm unaware of, you do get your score and credits back.
Well the console doesn't say anything useful. I have a thread in troubleshooting about this, right here:
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13718.0 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13718.0)
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There are some things in 1.2 I still don't like.
** The Dretch's regen rate off of creep is painfully slow. If the dretch's value isn't going down, I think it should get a faster regen rate, and a longer pain threshold (how long between when it's hurt and when it starts healing).
** when you have to reset your internet connection during a match, you can reconnect and you are on the same team, but you lose all score and evos. Happens with weak wifi.
** I think the Defense computer :defcomp: is still to weak, I think it needs a pimp in one area or another.
It's been discussed, and I think that the defense computer would be better if it didn't stack and did more regen to only a few buildings at a time, starting with the most damaged or most important.
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There are some things in 1.2 I still don't like.
** The Dretch's regen rate off of creep is painfully slow. If the dretch's value isn't going down, I think it should get a faster regen rate, and a longer pain threshold (how long between when it's hurt and when it starts healing).
** when you have to reset your internet connection during a match, you can reconnect and you are on the same team, but you lose all score and evos. Happens with weak wifi.
** I think the Defense computer :defcomp: is still to weak, I think it needs a pimp in one area or another.
It's been discussed, and I think that the defense computer would be better if it didn't stack and did more regen to only a few buildings at a time, starting with the most damaged or most important.
I was thinking just double it's range, that would make it essential.
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[deleted]
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I dont agree.
dretch should have a short life cycle.
They do now. If you like it that way, we should crusade to have its value reduced to something reasonable.
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Or reduce the spawn time for aliens? But that stuff is all serverside..
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Or reduce the spawn time for aliens? But that stuff is all serverside..
OooOOOoh! Just for dretches, you mean? Thats an idea!
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A dretch spamming is actually a good defense and maybe making it slightly more spammy might be a good idea,
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Or reduce the spawn time for aliens? But that stuff is all serverside..
OooOOOoh! Just for dretches, you mean? Thats an idea!
Would work better, when overmind is down, and nothing else to be do, except launch dretchstorm. :P
Would suit me well.
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Dretches already have faster regen than every other alien class besides basilisks (5% per second on creep).
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They are also huge and easy to hit.
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Dretches already have faster regen than every other alien class besides basilisks (5% per second on creep).
Indeed, but that fast regen only brings them up 2 a lowly 25 HP. Considering their money value and the strength of the basic rifle, they should be able to regen at 2HP/sec OFF of creep without causing imbalance.
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I find dretches to be annoying enough already. I really don't want to see my chainsuit get hammered by the same dretch by hitting me, then running away for a few seconds and then coming back. Especially with poison, swarms of dretches are already a potent combination. Just look at tremstats: Most of the players "Top Deaths" are from dretches, and often by a large margin.
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I find dretches to be annoying enough already. I really don't want to see my chainsuit get hammered by the same dretch by hitting me, then running away for a few seconds and then coming back. Especially with poison, swarms of dretches are already a potent combination. Just look at tremstats: Most of the players "Top Deaths" are from dretches, and often by a large margin.
WHAT'S UP?
(http://aiiane.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/zerg_rush.png)
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I've heard tons of complaints about the dretch.
If a human got good enough in 1.1 no dretch could ever get good enough to do anything against said human in a 1v1 conflict because the rifle is actually very slightly overpowered when brought against anything below a goon, despite the reload. Same goes in 1.2 I'd say.
In any case, those who are complaining about the dretch being underpowered in 1.2 aren't even whining about the right things. The dretch's maneuverability is all that's had any serious impact on its capabilities, the hitbox/model size changes (was there a hitbox change? correct me if not) are negligible. I feel no difference in difficulty shooting dretches with a rifle in 1.2 than in 1.1, and I can take 2-3 per clip easily in both versions.
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I've heard tons of complaints about the dretch.
If a human got good enough in 1.1 no dretch could ever get good enough to do anything against said human in a 1v1 conflict because the rifle is actually very slightly overpowered when brought against anything below a goon, despite the reload. Same goes in 1.2 I'd say.
In any case, those who are complaining about the dretch being underpowered in 1.2 aren't even whining about the right things. The dretch's maneuverability is all that's had any serious impact on its capabilities, the hitbox/model size changes (was there a hitbox change? correct me if not) are negligible. I feel no difference in difficulty shooting dretches with a rifle in 1.2 than in 1.1, and I can take 2-3 per clip easily in both versions.
Model was sized up to match the hitbox. Hitbox remained as it was in 1.1 as far as I know.
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A dretch is equal to a blaster.
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This (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/140/e/a/pistol_by_peterku.jpg) blaster. ;D (Upgradeable blaster anyone?)
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A dretch is equal to a blaster.
A skilled blaster perhaps with the dretch charging straight at you. Honestly, dretch is still pretty powerful, although now its harder to charge humans. What I've found is to hide behind a wall and ninja humans as they go by because if you get a headbite in, killing a human becomes quite easy.
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They are worth too much. How about a compromise and bring it down to $135/dretch?
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A dretch is equal to a blaster.
A skilled blaster perhaps with the dretch charging straight at you. Honestly, dretch is still pretty powerful, although now its harder to charge humans. What I've found is to hide behind a wall and ninja humans as they go by because if you get a headbite in, killing a human becomes quite easy.
I agree with the blaster.
i also agree swarms of dretches with poison is a very powerful combination in many circumstances.
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Blaster's useful if you run out of ammo and you want to get a few pot shots in. Might make the difference for a kill.
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In 1.1 it was 8 damage a pop, eh? And an alien stops regenerating health when it takes damage. The blaster's actually really useful for keeping an alien down until your buddies show up. (Even, and maybe especially, the bigger ones.)
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i blastered a rant the other day that was running away i am so pro
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Indeed, but that fast regen only brings them up 2 a lowly 25 HP. Considering their money value and the strength of the basic rifle, they should be able to regen at 2HP/sec OFF of creep without causing imbalance.
You're a dretch, just go die fighting. If you're really that worried about feeding, you can go back to your base for a while, or walk around the map to an alternate attack route. Or find a basilisk.
They are worth too much.
If they are, it's not to a degree that is imbalancing the game. Aliens still win 15% more games (http://imgur.com/Edsqg.png) than humans, and changing the base classes -- even a little -- would have a major impact on the game. In fact, in games ending with both teams at stage 1, aliens do much, much better as the player count increases, and I really can't believe that this happens in spite of dretches feeding too much.
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big issue now is a rant killing a battlesuit in ~0.1sec flat something has to be fixed with trample im the right hands noone stands a chance against that trample
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[deleted]
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Fix against trample: Chainsuit.
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Why not make the rants follow through on their rampage. Like in those old cartoon series where the character is running really fast and then skids to a stop and slides several feet. In this case, the rant will skid and during this period, the rant cannot change direction and can only slash. Trample damage has no effect. That way, if you manage to dodge the initial trample, you have enough time to inflict damage as well as prepare to dodge the second trample.
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Fix against trample: Chainsuit.
Even suits can be killed in about 1 second by a skilled rant.
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Grab your friend with you. And be a skilled chainsuit too. Trample is very weak in just a bit open areas if you know what to do.
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This (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/140/e/a/pistol_by_peterku.jpg) blaster. ;D (Upgradeable blaster anyone?)
YUCK! That stuff's looking like a 1911-pistol. Change that to a more modern look like Glock & descendants...
On topic:
Dretch is powerful because of its agility. Concerning gameplay, I think 1.2 got it right. Some details may be debateable and imo, aliens are still slightly overpowered, but all in all, 1.2 got it right.
If you are slashed down with too great an ease, try dodgeing. There is a reason why they invented it for 1.2, and it is very effective.
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The only place that trampling is really a big issue (as far as I can see) is in enclosed hallways where you don't have much room to maneuver. Any decently good dancer can get around a trampling rant, you just need to shake their prediction of your movements up.
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YUCK! That stuff's looking like a 1911-pistol. Change that to a more modern look like Glock & descendants...
Ewwww, glocks are ugly. 1911s ftw.
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You're a dretch, just go die fighting.
For the Republic! Hoiyaah!
Leave the dretch as it is currently, I like those spiders.
Berettas FTW.
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Grab your friend with you. And be a skilled chainsuit too. Trample is very weak in just a bit open areas if you know what to do.
i have seen a rant take out 3 chainsuits with 1 trample straight round a corner and it was all over within 1 second. and sometimes you dont have the option to fight in an open area
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Honestly then you need to take a different route to the alien base, or play a different map. And even in a small hallway it is usually possible to prevent yourself from getting smashed against a wall. Its the corners that are difficult.
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Grab your friend with you. And be a skilled chainsuit too. Trample is very weak in just a bit open areas if you know what to do.
i have seen a rant take out 3 chainsuits with 1 trample straight round a corner and it was all over within 1 second. and sometimes you dont have the option to fight in an open area
Fluke. I took out 2 suits and two footsoldiers once in a corner of nano in about 1.5 seconds. It's a Kodak moment, nothing that needs rebalancing.
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For me, the trample is what makes Rant worth playing. It's certainly not its tank-like movements or its ungodly size or the fact that you're always the main target of any human in eye-shot.
And if multiple Chainsuits can be trample-killed in under a second, then that sounds about right; considering pretty much every other Alien class folds almost as quickly under the Chainsuit's RANGED attack.
Think of it this way: Say the Rant's trample misses your Chainsuit (probably because it's fat head got caught on a low-hanging pipe or some bullshit like that) and you now have that 3-second window of time to fire away at the Rant while he's winding down from his trample and unable to slash. How long will it take your Chaingun to tear away at all 350 of the Rant's HP? Longer than it will take for the Rant to wind-down and THEN get 3 slashes into your head?
Probably not (and if so, you might need some practice). Now, imagine there's 2 Chainsuits in that hallway...
"Awe, shit..."
\/
:battlesuit: :tyrant: :battlesuit:
The Rant's trample is it's saving grace, much like the Goon's pounce. Without it, he'd just be a REALLY TALL bulls-eye.
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The Rant's trample is it's saving grace, much like the Goon's pounce. Without it, he'd just be a REALLY TALL bulls-eye.
Pretty much, ever since the aura was removed the only goo thing about the Rant was it's trample (which also has a nice psychological effect of making the victim soil himself in fear - don't ask how I know that).
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Pretty much, ever since the aura was removed the only goo thing about the Rant was it's trample (which also has a nice psychological effect of making the victim soil himself in fear - don't ask how I know that).
LOL... Don't worry. I wasn't gonna :o
Anyway, don't forget the CRUSH! I guess that's the OTHER thing that makes 1.2 Rant worth playing: He has a free almost-always-instant-kill (at least I've never seen it hit and NOT kill) attack, as a long you can set it up right.
Niveus, alone, has several really great spots for a set-up. My favorite is in the tall corridor; that ledge right above Human default's front entrance. I tell you, there's few things in this game that feel more badass than seeing three Helms round that corner and dropping down to crush the first as you release your Trample on the second, pinning him against the wall until he's good and dead and then turning to maul the third with slashes, if he hasn't already run away in pants-shitting terror that is.
__________________|
______________________|
:tyrant:
"Is my shadow getting bigger?"
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:battlesuit: :battlesuit:
...Ah, good times.
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Crush is only max 100-ish damage or so.
But the fun in crushing is in nano going to the human base and crushing the guys on medistation.
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Crush is only max 100-ish damage or so.
The source says:
Crush damage per velocity: 0.5 (damage added is half your falling distance)
Crush damage: 120
I could be reading it wrong but I thought that meant the base damage was 120 and that your falling distance multiplied the crush's damage exponentially so that if, say, you dropped onto a human from a foot above him it would do 120-ish but if you dropped from 200 feet above him it would do something like 1200 damage.
What's also awesome is that it can hit multiple targets, as well.
But the fun in crushing is in nano going to the human base and crushing the guys on medistation.
Oh yeah, I LOVE Ranting in Nano.
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velocity != distance
velocity == speed
Crush damage is determined by falling speed.
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The comments in the source say otherwise.
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I was thinking of maybe starting a new topic to ask for a little more explanation on the subject of Crushing with Rant, but then I remembered the golden rule: "Always 'Search' first, dumbass."
Also I figured, with all the cakes that need baking right now, those dudes don't need to be bothered with answering questions that I can very well figure out myself using the forum and my own powers over mock-physical science.
Hi-Yah Science!
Anyway, here's what my research has divulged so far:
Yah'boy says...
crush attack
* damages humans and human structures when falling on top of them
* 120 + half falling velocity nonlocational damage, 500 repeat (only repeats for players, not structures)
...so the damage is definitely 120 + 1/2(f.v.), which makes sense because gravity is a bitch. And since we know that a Rant's falling velocity is determined by the height from which it falls, one can safely assume that if said Rant were to fall from the front entrance of the Nexus Alien Default and then landed on the head of a human three floors below, the damage equation would then become something like:
120 + 1/2(A Fuck-Ton)
If anybody feels like helping me gather some more concrete data on the subject (it's easy, all you have to do is spawn human and stand there), let me know and we can go science the shit out it.
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There is a max height though where it caps. (Same for any falling thing I think.)
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Yeah, I believe that's called "Terminal Velocity"; the point where a falling object's speed no longer increases.
Coincidentally, it's also a really bad Charlie Sheen movie.
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[deleted]
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Then what happens if a gravity trigger is in place on a map? Does it use the fall *distance* or the speed that you land on the human with?
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It should be speed, I don't think distance is even calculated...
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Then what happens if a gravity trigger is in place on a map? Does it use the fall *distance* or the speed that you land on the human with?
Damn you, Kiwi, and your good questions!
...But, seriously, I don't know. You wanna go test it with me?
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The comments in the source say otherwise.
Then they're contradicting the source code. Crush is determined by speed, and I rather like that as compared to distance.
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The comments in the source say otherwise.
Then they're contradicting the source code. Crush is determined by speed, and I rather like that as compared to distance.
Indeed.
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I agree too, and I'd love to test it, but I'm on vacation in Hawaii. So limited internet and weird time zones might make it a bit harder :) But I'd love to help when I get back home.
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I agree too, and I'd love to test it, but I'm on vacation in Hawaii. So limited internet and weird time zones might make it a bit harder :) But I'd love to help when I get back home.
Awesome. Just PM me whenever you get back.
As for my own tests, last night I discovered that you don't even have to be ABOVE a human to crush them:
I was in the hallway of A.T.C.S, charging my trample while heading towards H-base, when I see this naked standing at the top of the next ramp just asking to be trampled.
So I released my fully-charged trample and started up the ramp towards him. I reached the top of the ramp, which launched me about a foot of the ground (if that) at the same moment that I made contact with the naked. I was fully expecting to just trample him, but the kill-text said I had "CRUSHED" him under my weight.
So, in conclusion, speed DOES have a lot to do with it. Apparently, if you're going fast enough, it doesn't matter how far your Rant falls. He just has to be off the ground at the moment of contact with the human.
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iirc, crush distributes damage based on the tyrants speed only. So yep..
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About that: the highest crush damage received was actually when I was on Karith main staircase and a rant came to crush me all the way from the top. Received 90 damage with a battlesuit. Ouch.
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There are ways to get higher downwards velocity without falling a long distance...
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They are worth too much. How about a compromise and bring it down to $135/dretch?
on sale now for 20 dollars
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There are ways to get higher downwards velocity without falling a long distance...
Does modding gravity fall into this category?
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It certainly should. Ofc it is easy to test:
:tyrant:
:reactor: