Tremulous Forum
General => Announcements => Topic started by: Norfenstein on August 06, 2010, 11:22:59 pm
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Surprise! New phase! Only a couple of very minor things to change, but it's also about time to share some statistics from the last phase.
Reading the graphs: Each cross is one game, the distance from 0 on the vertical axis indicates how close a game was to the mean duration for all games on the graph (the weighting for how much this affects the lines is half as much as we used in phase 1). The numbers in the bottom right are the min/median/max/standard deviation for stage up times and game duration.
Both servers combined
(http://imgur.com/xebeF.png)
Euro server
(http://imgur.com/9kDbi.png)
US server
(http://imgur.com/Sv7Sx.png)
A lot more data here than in previous stages. The combined overall ratio remains at a comfortable 55:45, and I'm quite pleased that we can scale up to 25+ without degrading the balance. And the US server had our most balanced round ever so far: out of 4119 games counted, aliens only had 179 more wins than humans. So I'd say the changes from last round are pretty solid. What's left to change?
Changes
- Players no longer earn funds from damage dealt by structures. Previously, all damage from structures was ignored when determining the value of a killed player -- if you bit a human's ankle for 10 damage and acid tubes delt the other 90 you would get full credit. Now you'll only get 10%.
- Granger spit slow time increased from 1 second to 2 seconds
- Light armour fixed to protect slightly less from the back instead of slightly less from the front. I'm not going to believe anyone that says they can tell the difference, but light armour was supposed to have a .40 damage modifier from the back and .35 from the front and the calculation for this had been reversed and now is fixed. This only affects attacks that deal locational damage, and only to the middle region of humans, and light armour is the only piece of armour that has different modifiers for the back/sides.
- Defense computer regen rate increased from 3 to 4. I know this isn't going to be enough to appease those who wanted major changes for the defense computer, but I'm still not convinced that it really needs changing. Its current regen rate, however, was always basically arbitrary so I'm open to increasing it a little. If this change doesn't make any difference at all we can consider doing something more unorthodox.
Aside from those things, there've been a handful of fixes to bugs that sometimes affect gameplay (teleporters should now properly telefrag, you should never lose credits as a human when selling equipment puts you over the credit limit, repeaters should be less buggy in general), and the Overmind now broadcasts a message to all alien players when it finishes building.
As should already be obvious, the gameplay at this point is pretty much stable for 1.2. I really can't make any promises as to when a proper release will happen, but development is still going on -- just not very quickly (the sound licenses (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0) are probably our biggest roadblock right now). Thanks for sticking with us.
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And for your information:
Player kills by MOD, EU server
96373 MACHINEGUN
55349 LASGUN
42103 CHAINGUN
41104 MDRIVER
39735 LCANNON (combined)
28685 PRIFLE
23338 SHOTGUN
20284 LCANNON_SPLASH
19451 LCANNON
12502 PAINSAW
11256 GRENADE
7539 FLAMER (combined)
6290 FLAMER
5429 BLASTER
1249 FLAMER_SPLASH
49989 MGTURRET
4144 TESLAGEN
3155 REACTOR
2111 HSPAWN
87902 LEVEL3 (combined)
84490 LEVEL0_BITE
50400 LEVEL3_POUNCE
43975 LEVEL2 (combined)
31506 LEVEL4 (combined)
30399 LEVEL3_CLAW
29735 LEVEL2_CLAW
19742 LEVEL4_CLAW
14240 LEVEL2_ZAP
13229 LEVEL1_CLAW
11202 LEVEL4_TRAMPLE
7753 POISON
7103 LEVEL3_BOUNCEBALL
657 ABUILDER (combined)
627 ABUILDER_CLAW
562 LEVEL4_CRUSH
30 SLOWBLOB
3880 ATUBE
1585 SWARM
754 OVERMIND
172 ASPAWN
2036 TRIGGER_HURT
1280 FALLING
581 SUICIDE
508 TELEFRAG
440 CRUSH
178 LAVA
36 WATER
Player kills by MOD, US server
189309 MACHINEGUN
104987 LASGUN
95884 LCANNON (combined)
95266 MDRIVER
77172 CHAINGUN
58338 SHOTGUN
53108 PRIFLE
49346 LCANNON_SPLASH
46538 LCANNON
28701 GRENADE
24475 PAINSAW
21154 FLAMER (combined)
17712 FLAMER
6850 BLASTER
3442 FLAMER_SPLASH
82204 MGTURRET
9197 TESLAGEN
5266 REACTOR
3205 HSPAWN
174117 LEVEL3 (combined)
157309 LEVEL0_BITE
89895 LEVEL2 (combined)
87590 LEVEL3_POUNCE
78645 LEVEL4 (combined)
71091 LEVEL3_CLAW
60641 LEVEL2_CLAW
51135 LEVEL4_CLAW
29740 LEVEL1_CLAW
29254 LEVEL2_ZAP
26198 LEVEL4_TRAMPLE
17979 POISON
15436 LEVEL3_BOUNCEBALL
1517 ABUILDER (combined)
1438 ABUILDER_CLAW
1312 LEVEL4_CRUSH
79 SLOWBLOB
8049 ATUBE
4376 SWARM
1383 OVERMIND
307 ASPAWN
7302 TRIGGER_HURT
3701 FALLING
2025 CRUSH
1963 SUICIDE
1247 LAVA
1116 TELEFRAG
120 WATER
Structure kills by MOD, EU server
12888 MACHINEGUN
12383 GRENADE
10334 LCANNON (combined)
9701 PAINSAW
9490 LASGUN
8531 PRIFLE
8505 LCANNON
4110 CHAINGUN
3072 BLASTER
2674 MDRIVER
1829 LCANNON_SPLASH
1707 SHOTGUN
1285 FLAMER (combined)
1190 FLAMER
95 FLAMER_SPLASH
29305 LEVEL3 (combined)
25385 LEVEL2 (combined)
15718 LEVEL3_CLAW
14904 LEVEL2_CLAW
10481 LEVEL2_ZAP
9905 LEVEL3_BOUNCEBALL
7248 LEVEL4 (combined)
6799 LEVEL4_CLAW
4473 LEVEL1_CLAW
3682 LEVEL3_POUNCE
3055 LEVEL0_BITE
1379 ABUILDER_CLAW
429 LEVEL4_TRAMPLE
20 LEVEL4_CRUSH
18026 NOCREEP
1762 DECONSTRUCT
Structure kills by MOD, US server
24391 GRENADE
19374 MACHINEGUN
19351 LCANNON (combined)
15513 LCANNON
14204 PAINSAW
14023 LASGUN
12693 PRIFLE
5551 CHAINGUN
4437 MDRIVER
4238 BLASTER
3838 LCANNON_SPLASH
3007 SHOTGUN
2748 FLAMER (combined)
2530 FLAMER
218 FLAMER_SPLASH
45360 LEVEL3 (combined)
39900 LEVEL2 (combined)
22914 LEVEL3_CLAW
22779 LEVEL2_CLAW
17324 LEVEL3_BOUNCEBALL
17121 LEVEL2_ZAP
13093 LEVEL4_CLAW
6625 LEVEL1_CLAW
5122 LEVEL3_POUNCE
4191 LEVEL0_BITE
2520 ABUILDER_CLAW
13929 LEVEL4 (combined)
796 LEVEL4_TRAMPLE
40 LEVEL4_CRUSH
27978 NOCREEP
2986 DECONSTRUCT
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Great!
@DC: If you're keen on it repairing all buildings, I'd raise it slightly to 5 or 6, I don't think 4 will do that much change yet. We'll see.
Also: "The overmind has awakened" should have the sound broadcast to all aliens as per "Overmind is under attack!"
Happy new phase!
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Note: The credits change was a bugfix. It was intended to be this way all along, but it's been broken since the days of mgdev and it took this long to notice.
Also fixed:
The ghost-buildable display bug where you could run around with a weapon + ghost buildable by changing weapons around too quickly no longer occurs.
Edit2: The credits from selling stuff thing has been in place for like a week fwiw we just didn't bother announcing it till now.
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you should never lose credits as a human when selling equipment puts you over the credit limit
That makes me feel glad that I went on the irc and complained about it. =D
Anyways, the changes look great. I still think basi is a bit op-- I'd personally want the grab to be about 4 units shorter, and slash 4 units longer-- it might not be much, but the current grab is pretty overkill-- plus this wouldn't be completely bad for the basi either, it would allow for a longer distance apart from the human where you could grab, and slash. I just think grab is too long, other than that the basi is perfect, but again that's just my opinion, whatever the outcome I will still love tremulous to death.
Anyways, thanks to all the devs working on 1.2, I love you guys(Also, lak, can I have your cell # yet??)
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TremStats (http://stats.tremulous.net/) is reset, congrats to -sg.johnny- (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1p5/top_players.php) the US winner, and Juliet (http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/eu1p5/top_players.php) the EU winner.
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Cool. Pretty minor changes, but they feel right. We'll see how the DC thing goes I guess.
Also a clarification: Does damage done by turrets/tubes/etc go towards stage targets?
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Stages are done by creds / evo's earned, so no.
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The bug was giving people more credits than they deserved.
This affected score and earned credits/evos given to players, but it did not affect stages. The credits/evos toward staging up were already being done properly.
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Makes sense, cheers guys.
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Cool. As far as I'm concerned, GPP is complete.
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Cool. As far as I'm concerned, GPP is complete.
GPP is never not finish
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Nice job! Thanks for the new phase :)
Keep up the good work guys!
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Once again Norf, you impress me. These stats are awesome. It's good that aliens have the advantage, though it's ever so slight.
I'm afraid my work on the sounds is quite slow... probably too slow. But maybe we can encourage more to help out with the sounds.
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Once again Norf, you impress me. These stats are awesome. It's good that aliens have the advantage, though it's ever so slight.
I'm afraid my work on the sounds is quite slow... probably too slow. But maybe we can encourage more to help out with the sounds.
As long as you have them all ready in the next 4 years, you will be setting the pace for tremulous development.
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How many phases are there? O_o
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How many phases are there? O_o
∞
Until the perfect balance and a ratio of 1/1. :D
Kudos to you for the new phase!
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Bring out the Battlegrangers!
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\o/
In my opinion, this has been best phase at the moment. Only slight favor on alien side by stats, bur I don't agree at all. Both sides are been quite balanced. Nice work ;)
Let's keep the game on rolling, I'm still missing time to play Trem, or any other games at the moment....
does it mean we only need to wait 1 more year? I can live with that.
Nouu, not yet! I don't wanna miss that time when Tremulous 1.2 is released! :'(
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I'm thinking that if this phase is as stable as the last and nothing else important comes up we can start testing some form of domination. I've always wanted it as an optional mode but the main gameplay needs to be finished first.
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That would be nice, but I'm a bit wary that the Defense computer might be forgotten. Also, it would still be nice to have an official base gameplay server.
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I'm thinking that if this phase is as stable as the last and nothing else important comes up we can start testing some form of domination. I've always wanted it as an optional mode but the main gameplay needs to be finished first.
Yes! This makes me extremely happy. :D
I've always thought that domination would fit in extremely well with the gameplay of trem. Good luck for getting this off the ground.
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Oooohhh, domination :o
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Hm, that would be interesting..
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Also, it would still be nice to have an official base gameplay server.
Yeah we'd add another, not convert the existing ones.
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I personally would love to see stopwatch gamemodes, even moreso than domination.
Anyways, the gameplay has really gotten to a great place.
Good job Norf.
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I personally would love to see stopwatch gamemodes, even moreso than domination.
What do you mean by stopwatch gamemodes?
Anyways, the gameplay has really gotten to a great place.
Good job Norf.
Agreed.
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I think we should have steal the tyrant game mode. Break into the cave, steal the tyrants, and ride them back out to freedom in a timelimit.
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But the tyrants would have to breath fire, otherwise it would be pointless..
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Yay for domination!
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What do you mean by stopwatch gamemodes?
An example of a stopwatch gamemode is "Payload" from Team Fortress 2.
For those who haven't played TF2, I'll give a basic explanation.
In a stopwatch mode, one team has a goal or set of goals that they are trying to complete in a certain amount of time. The other team has the goal of slowing them down as much as possible by killing them or performing counter-objectives.
A stopwatch game could go from as simple as "this team attacks, this team defends; kill the base" to more complicated things such as Blackout.
In many games, stopwatch matches are how scrims and the like happen.
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yay new phase and started the day i left for a holiday :/
dont like that trample wasnt nerfed and i still think us server should be moved to Australia so everyone else lags instead of me for a bit :p na cant wait to test the new changes out should be fun like the rest of the phases
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@Whales: Sounds interesting.. But I'm not sure how well it would work with trem though. Aliens might have a large advantage due to their speed and mobility, but on the other hand the humans range could prove to be op with a defend the castle type of situation. However, I'd still love to see a mod for it.
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Alternate objectives like that would probably fall to special maps using various triggers.
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What do you mean by stopwatch gamemodes?
An example of a stopwatch gamemode is "Payload" from Team Fortress 2.
For those who haven't played TF2, I'll give a basic explanation.
In a stopwatch mode, one team has a goal or set of goals that they are trying to complete in a certain amount of time. The other team has the goal of slowing them down as much as possible by killing them or performing counter-objectives.
A stopwatch game could go from as simple as "this team attacks, this team defends; kill the base" to more complicated things such as Blackout.
In many games, stopwatch matches are how scrims and the like happen.
like the map "mission 1" ?
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like the map "mission 1" ?
No, not at all like Mission One.
A free game with great stopwatch modes would be Wolf:ET.
I suppose Laki is right about it falling to custom maps/triggers, but I just thought I'd bring it up while the idea of alternative gametypes is being brought up.
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Instagib for 1.2? Just a suggestion, while we're talking about different gametypes.
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How would instagib even work with aliens etc?
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How would instagib even work with aliens etc?
There's an instagib mod in 1.1, that has humans only, and the only alien you see is a basilisk if you run out of ammo.
EDIT: Oh and the tyrant, it comes to play as random at certain intervals. Try it anyways.
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It could work if a map is made with the alien handicap in mind.
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I thought the instagib I was talking about was only relevant to humans, i.e. you can't play aliens.
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I don't know about you guys, but I would like to hear the ''Overmind is ready'' sound not only show a writing, besides, it makes problems with custom maps where you can see these writings, like in the map with seimsic movement thingy and all that. Good job on the updates anyways! keep it up!
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I don't know about you guys, but I would like to hear the ''Overmind is ready'' sound not only show a writing, besides, it makes problems with custom maps where you can see these writings, like in the map with seimsic movement thingy and all that. Good job on the updates anyways! keep it up!
Yeah, I told about that one too (also since all the other Overmind messages like Under Attack and Dying have a sound). Seems like the sound is going to be added.
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I don't know about you guys, but I would like to hear the ''Overmind is ready'' sound not only show a writing, besides, it makes problems with custom maps where you can see these writings, like in the map with seimsic movement thingy and all that. Good job on the updates anyways! keep it up!
Yeah, I told about that one too (also since all the other Overmind messages like Under Attack and Dying have a sound). Seems like the sound is going to be added.
This is already implemented, no??
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Well you still don't hear the sound, just the message (which is quite easy to miss).
Also I think the trample is quite bugged - yesterday on nexus6 i managed to throw bsuit in the air and he landed at those wall support things in the hallway next to human base (right side of it). That looked quite funny, unfortunately I could only hit his feets from there and he didn't want to come down so... pew pew pew
Gotta take some real demo before I submit it to bugzilla
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Agreed, also grenade/luci jump looks ridiculous. Besides, I sometime ago suggested the ability to crush-damage just like rants. No dev voice hear in there.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
But how can a granger be so fat it's fatter than a human. D:
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
But how can a granger be so fat it's fatter than a human. D:
It eats lots? :-\
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But they throw up so much it seems they would lose all of their weight.
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But they throw up so much it seems they would lose all of their weight.
Only the ones that can walk on walls. They need to do this so they don't fall off.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
On the contrary, I have yet to find a (FPS) game that is more complicated than tremulous. You're reason for telling me to 'live with it' is BS.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
On the contrary, I have yet to find a (FPS) game that is more complicated than tremulous. You're reason for telling me to 'live with it' is BS.
I don't know much about coding to be honest but how complicated are the physics in trem?
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
On the contrary, I have yet to find a (FPS) game that is more complicated than tremulous. You're reason for telling me to 'live with it' is BS.
I don't know much about coding to be honest but how complicated are the physics in trem?
Just adding a constant that reduces player velocity if it is wearing that particular armor. Most use simple physics,
I doubt it will ever be viable to implement *real physics*, even the game has *complex* physics, it normally just
fudges things into approximations.
It would be great if the added armor caused a movement restriction, less sprint speed, no dodge, but I normally get
this reply "Human team has high technology, therefore the battlesuit can [jump sprint dodge] [high far long often] too.
But in most games and reality, increased weight means slower movement, as compared to lighter armor classes.
However, when the battlesuits sprints*, it does trample damage like a tyrant. I'm not sure about crush, this could
imbalance things, with a flamer battlesuit slaughtering a sea of dretches. I imagine painsaw charging battlesuits, will
be a fearsome sight to a trampling rant.
*Perhaps battlesuit sprint, should charge like tyrant trample.
(just an observation: defense arguments against change, well not just trem, but seem to follow this pattern)
*Tremulous is [insert adjective or randomed comparion],[insert verb] it.
or
*If [alien or human team] allows [insert condition] then they deserve to [win or lose].
It makes it incredibly difficult for any forward moving discussion to take place.
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I think the Bsuit's mass is too low in general. Pounces and tramples throw it waaaay to far and high. Simply cartoonish.
Tremulous isn't the most sophisticated game in the world. Live with it.
On the contrary, I have yet to find a (FPS) game that is more complicated than tremulous. You're reason for telling me to 'live with it' is BS.
I don't know much about coding to be honest but how complicated are the physics in trem?
I thought you were referring to Tremulous in general, not it's physics. The neat thing about computer programs is that they can be changed/added to in almost any way. You can't "mod" a highway bypass. Software is malleable, easy (ish) to make additions to. Just don't say "it can't be done."
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You can't "mod" a highway bypass.
Sure you can. Over here in the UK all major roads are constantly being modded, in line with some genius plan to ease congestion by closing half the lanes for never-ending roadworks.
Everything is moddable, it's just a matter of how hard.
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You can't "mod" a highway bypass.
Everything is changeable, it's just a matter of how hard.
Fixed.
Modding is usually accomplished by independent individuals who have their own, very specific perception of what the end product should look like. The most "modding" a bypass ever sees is probably some stray graffiti, or a taped-over wrong-way sign.
LOLZ to the eternal roadwork, I've heard about it. I like how in America we let the roads go to hell. Doesn't slow us down one bit.
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I don't know where you live, but California has endless roadwork. This shit goes on for miles and lasts for several years.
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I don't know where you live, but California has endless roadwork. This shit goes on for miles and lasts for several years.
You sure you live in California? Because it sound just like you were living in Poland, even new roads are being "repaired" one week after opening. And those parts that roadworks don't include are usually full of holes (http://nadjakseruje.blox.pl/resource/polskie_drogi.jpg) :P but I think it's quite offtopic
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No, it's the fact my state is broke as hell and they start repair/construction projects and never finish them due to lack of funding.
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No, it's the fact my state is broke as hell and they start repair/construction projects and never finish them due to lack of funding.
YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK. Well they are fixing a large span that connects to a famous bridge I have to cross very often, which is ranked as one of _the_ most dangerous and poorly constructed structures to drive on in America, so I guess I can't complain too much about the traffic it causes.