Tremulous Forum
Community => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: Survivor on May 09, 2006, 10:13:06 pm
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Alien building in general:
Alien structures have several advantages over human buildings. They start regenerating out of themselves 2 seconds after they were last dealt damage. Some of them may also be built on walls or ceilings to avoid detection and grenades.
They however also have disadvantages. Humans have long range weapons which can quickly destroy any alien structure that has a long line of sight leading to it with little threat to the attacking human. Structures on the floor are also very prone to the mighty grenade. Their defences are truly more short range support than a true defence and even more so than humans they need to be backed up by players.
Out of this follow several rules for building as a granger.
1: Never build structures in locations with long lines of sight.
Reason: Humans have long range weapons.
2: If possible build on walls and ceilings.
Reason: The grenade is very powerful and is for example able to take out a group of clustered Acid tubes in one blow.
Aliens unlike humans have 3 spots they might build in a map. The following is a guideline
1: Main base containing Overmind, an egg or two (do not group them together) and defences.
2: Forward base containing an egg and a booster.
3: Backup eggs spread around the map in inconspicuous locations to prevent quick annihilations.
(4): On occasion aliens might build a forward defence to keep any jetpackers from leaving their base or gaining aerial advantage. This should only be done if the aliens have the humans pinned down though.
Name: Overmind Sentience: 0
HP: 750 Regen: 6/second
Range: Very Short Aim: Front
Use: The Overmind, often shortened to OM, allows aliens to evolve
if they have the necessary evolve points and is needed for all
structures except eggs to function. If no Overmind is present
no new structures may be built.
Loc: Although the Overmind does have a defence it is weak and
mostly useless. For this reason concealment and hard to reach
factor are important when placing the Overmind. Never build it
where the humans can shoot at it from afar. It can only be
built on the floor.
Name: Egg Sentience: 10
HP: 250 Regen: 8/second
Use: Eggs are the spawn locations for the alien team. They also
provide the creep necessary to build other alien structures in
forward locations. Removing an egg quickly kills all structures
that do not have access to the creep of another egg. Their
hitbox is also quite small in comparison to their model, might
want to keep this in mind when destroying them as humans.
Loc: Once again hidden and hard to reach. Eggs sometimes need to
placed openly when they are acting as creep suppliers for
forward structures like a booster. Be careful not to put them
above death spots like an abyss because people will spawn
and immediately die. Try to keep at least 2 backup eggs away
from your base so that a single blow will not finish the alien
team off. They can be placed on ceilings, sloped walls and
floors.
EGG HITBOX
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Egghitbox.jpg)
Name: Booster Sentience: 12
HP: 150 Regen: 8/second
Range: Medium Aim: Spherical
Use: Boosters serve two functions. They double the regeneration
rate of all aliens except tyrants and they provide poison for 30
seconds. Poison slowly wears out unprotected humans and is
especially useful for the lower classes like dretch and basilisk
while enhancing the maurader and dragoon. Tyrants have no
business near it since poison is obsolete for their power and
they do not profit from it’s regeneration aura. It does not have
defensive value, it is a support structure and it’s range and
aim refer to the regeneration aura.
Loc: Usually built near the front along with a egg to provide for
quick return to the battlefield and easy access to poison. When
it is built in base it is useless since the aliens need to travel too
long negating the advantage it gives. It can only be built on
the floor.
EXAMPLE OF A FORWARD BASE ON ATCS (note that spawning aliens land on the booster and automatically get poison.)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Forwardbasestage2.jpg)
EXAMPLE OF A FORWARD BASE ON NIVEUS (note that the creepgiving egg is somewhat hidden here)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Boosterviewsegg.jpg)
Name: Barricade Sentience: 10
HP: 200 Regen: 14/second
Use: Meant to block the path of humans they have several
disadvantages like their high cost. Besides doing what they
should do, blocking humans, they also block aliens. This in
combination with humans having long range weaponry means
this structure becomes just about useless in most cases. There
may be situations where they are useful but those who will find
these will be experienced builders themselves and don’t need
to read this guide.
Loc: If they need to be used they are most effective at delaying
humans so that the other defensive structures have longer to
do their job. For this job they may not be killed from afar and
should be placed a bit behind doors or just around corners.
They should only be built on the floor since else they truly use
all function.
Name: Hovel Sentience: 0
HP: 375 Regen: 20/second
Use: The Hovel can hide grangers but in reality this ability is
useless. It’s more common use is as a ‘free’ barricade. This
because of it’s high regeneration rate and quite broad hitbox.
Loc: In front of the Overmind or blocking an entry path. Since their
hitbox is not as high as that of a barricade humans can jump
over it, losing stamina in the progress or waisting ammo on it.
Only one can be built and it can only be built on the floor.
HOVEL USED AS A BARRICADE
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Hovelasbarricade.jpg)
Name: Acid Tube Sentience: 8
HP: 125 Regen: 10/second
Range: Medium Aim: Spherical
Use: Most commonly used defensive structure for the aliens. Its aim
is based on line of sight but it can fire through and over other
tubes without damaging them. Closer proximity does equal more damage in the same timespan but remember that humans usually use their long range weapons and grenades.
Loc: During stage 1 they are most effective just of the side of exits
and around corners. Stage 2 and on they should always be
placed on walls or low ceilings. Grenades deal quick death to
tubes on the ground and anything else in close range. Don’t
put them in the open either since the long range human
weapons will make mince meat out of them. They can be
placed on ceilings, walls and floors.
STAGE 1 TUBE EXAMPLE
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Stage1Tubes.jpg)
Name: Trapper Sentience: 8
HP: 50 Regen: 6/second
Range: Medium Aim: Conical
Use: Underestimated defensive structure because people don’t
know how to use it, (and a big reason for writing this guide).
Trappers do not deal damage, instead they catch humans in
place for a short duration not allowing them to even turn
unless they are wearing a battlesuit. This allows other
defences to soften the humans up or aliens to ambush this
easy target.
Loc: Since its aim is conical and fixed this is the one defensive
structure where placing demands precision, try to imagine
it not even having conical aiming but linear.
By preference it should be hidden from sight but still close to
the ground since the projectiles take a while to travel. Do not
place them on the floor, they may work once but get killed
quickly. They can be placed on ceilings, walls and floors.
TRAPPER STAGE 2 TUBE COMBINATION
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Trappertubes2.jpg)
THE FOLLOWING TRAPPER DOES NOT WORK PEOPLE
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/WrongTrapper.jpg)
Name: Hive Sentience: 12
HP: 125 Regen: 10/second
Range: Long Aim: Specific
Use: The hive is often neglected in favour of the cheaper Acid tubes
but they have several advantages that on occasion justify their
higher cost. They may fire slower than Acid tubes but their
range is longer and their swarms will even follow humans
around corners. They are also effective in preventing the
annoying jetpackers from gaining any height.
Loc: Always on the wall or ceiling. They need a line of sight to fire
but once triggered their swarm will follow the human around
corners for quite a while.
EXAMPLE OF A FORWARD DEFENCE AND JETPACK DENIAL CONSTRUCTION
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Forwardbasestage3.jpg)
If anyone wants to host the images on something not bandwidth limited like photobucket please let me know. Also point out inconsistencies please. :)
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The barrier IS abit usless as a blocking mechanism.
However, if you have the points to spare (usually only for S1 defences), then ive found out that setting a barrier in a narrow passage infront of a door (such as in Nexus, where the spawn is), people tend to either stand there and shoot at it when they go through the door (which leaves them open to the 2 Acid Tubes at the door, or alien attack), or they try and walk right by/destroy the 2 acid tubes. However, I then "hide" an acid tube behind the barrier, and it somewhat acts as a shield.
Barriers are also decent ways of trying to hide an OM, and give added defense. Dont forget to add an acid tube or two for added defense.
Although, they do cost way to much for thier purpose, and they become pretty much worthless at S2+S3 due to trappers comming into the picture.
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pretty nice guide, thanks for your work!
I didn't know that the trapper above the door doesn't work ;)
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I may be wrong but I think I have seen an OM hanging on a ceiling sometime... :o
Cheers, Danny
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Some places do have tiny ledges you can put stuff on, might have been that.
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1) Trappers should NEVER be placed on the floor. Hell most walls should be avoided to. The best place to put trappers are on ceilings preferably over doorways to trap humans that come through.
2) Acid tubes should almost never be placed on the ceiling. The acid it spits out is fluff, does nothing. The above guide is correct in that it does damage based on closeness to the actual entity and since most placements will see humans on the GROUND where you want the tube to be effective walls (close to the ground) and the ground itself is the place for them.
Yes grenades are risky and will destroy them easier BUT better the humans use their grenades on them and be slowed/greatly injured by their acid than hiding them on the ceiling where it's a 90% chance it won't slow OR hurt even slightly and have the humans use the grenades on your eggs/overmind.
The one exception are areas where you know for a fact that a human will try to reach a high ledge via jetback. Once in suitible range the tube will drag the flyer down. However don't expect this tactic to be the saviour of what's on the ledge, 99.9999% of the time there's an untubed access for the flyer to get up to an angle where he can shoot whatever is on the ledge. At best these 'ceiling acid tubes' are a mild annoyance and defense against straight run attacks, in pure base defense they're worthless.
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As said in the guide, the tubes do not do damage based on proximity but on stay in the spherical aim of the tube. The closer you are to the tube the longer you stay in the sphere the more damage you get. According to this the tubes should not be too far away but they should be far away enough from the ground to avoid being killed by a single grenade, usually the best place is indeed the wall, not the ceiling or floor.Tthey become even more effective in combination with trappers who keep humans in the tubes range sphere. I also recommended hives against jetpacks not tubes.
I never said that trappers should be put on the floor, and sometimes you need to place them on certain walls like the one in uncreation to be effective when there is no ceiling available.
As stated in the human and the alien guide all defences should always be backed up by players.
Please people read.
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Acid tubes does more damage to closer human
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I really need to quit midnight checking of data :oops:
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So, the longer you stay in an acid tube range, the more damage you take ?
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That, and proximity. I'm an ass when it's late, I mixed up. Edited it in.
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Very informative post Survivor, you kick ass. It might come to a big surprise to some of the game's players but alot of players don't know about the area of the alien's egg damage box. Perhaps this post might help a few people become a better player as a human.
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It might come to a big surprise to some of the game's players but alot of players don't know about the area of the alien's egg damage box.
Yep, that's right. Same for me. It's not too intuitive, ain't it? ;)
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Well if you've ever walked through one as a dretch you'll know :D
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Sticky me!
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Sticky me!
Or at least add me to an ordered list of useful threads...
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Congrats, player1! You got us a new subforum!
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yhey!
this should help noobs
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Congrats, player1! You got us a new subforum!
I can die happy now...
I'd like to thank my mom, Jesus and n00b pl0x...
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Nice work Survivor, and Yay!! Great new subforum!
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1) 2) Acid tubes should almost never be placed on the ceiling. The acid it spits out is fluff, does nothing. The above guide is correct in that it does damage based on closeness to the actual entity and since most placements will see humans on the GROUND where you want the tube to be effective walls (close to the ground) and the ground itself is the place for them.
I'm amazed at the number of people that continually attempt to "aim" tubes in various levels and specifically try to put on a very high ceiling. Since humans are most vulnerable in the head the best place for a tube is on the wall at head height. This way it's out of the way of grenades and does maximum damage. Personally I like having them right on either side of a doorway with a trapper on the ceiling above to lock them in place.
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1) 2) Acid tubes should almost never be placed on the ceiling. The acid it spits out is fluff, does nothing. The above guide is correct in that it does damage based on closeness to the actual entity and since most placements will see humans on the GROUND where you want the tube to be effective walls (close to the ground) and the ground itself is the place for them.
I'm amazed at the number of people that continually attempt to "aim" tubes in various levels and specifically try to put on a very high ceiling. Since humans are most vulnerable in the head the best place for a tube is on the wall at head height. This way it's out of the way of grenades and does maximum damage. Personally I like having them right on either side of a doorway with a trapper on the ceiling above to lock them in place.
acid tubes haven't done location damage since standalone (and maybe even earlier)
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I'd add that in s1, barricades are horrifically effective since most humans don't have grenades yet. As such, on maps like Transit, it can effectively block a human rush if placed correctly.
It won't last forever, but it WILL last long enough that MAYBE someone will respawn and notice it's getting shot ;)
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I'd add that in s1, barricades are horrifically effective since most humans don't have grenades yet. As such, on maps like Transit, it can effectively block a human rush if placed correctly.
It won't last forever, but it WILL last long enough that MAYBE someone will respawn and notice it's getting shot ;)
when i have 10 extra bps 3 seconds from sd and already have 5 eggs and 2ft from om i sometimes use barricades. these are there only uses
one good use of barricades is getting riflemen to wast there ammo on killing them
another is protecting om from nades and psaws
that is there only uses. oh by the way i think they should eat humans if they get to close ;D
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If your base only has one entrance I personally find that untill s2 a pyramid of tubes spanning the whole doorway will kill any human... also if the 'Don't spawn block' thing is in affect you can build an egg and shoot yourself into high up places =D
hovels a good defense against nades, or just as a distraction, if a human opens a door and sees a hovel they'll mostly shoot it and try to kill it not realizing they're wasting tons of ammo xD
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Have you seen the ATCS alien hovel glitch on youtube? http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=asdfgh
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do you know that a glitch which breaks gameplay severely like that should not be spread. It's the same as the basement of tremor. It totally denies humans victory, and as such is forbidden.
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Alien bases should always be behind cover and hidden or easily defendable from S1 humans. Bases should also, if possible, be protected or mostly protected from luci or suit spammers. They should *NOT* be in large open areas away from doors. Stay near the doors, with little overhead (to prevent jettyspam) and easily defensible (like on a catwalk with a high rail, which dretches can climb over but cannot be shot through.)
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Dunno if the necro rule counts in this case (approx. 1.5 months), or if it even applies to stickies, but here goes:
I tend to agree with the ceiling tubes thing. Useful against jetpackers trying to gain some altitude, but other than that, the only reason you should put them in high places is if you want to waste buildpoints (I have seen several griefers do this, it is frustrating and it takes a while to move/decon them).
I hate the ATCS hovel glitch, as Survivor said it totally denies victory to humans, plus I can never replicate it on my own ;).
Oh, and a note to noobs: never build until you have seen an experienced builder in action. I used to put trappers on floors, acid tubes on high ceilings like pushcannon and rotcannon in an attempt to injure unsuspecting humans down below (it never worked), eggs over abysses, and as a result got !denybuild-ed on several occasions. Now I know better after watching someone else singlehandedly build the most spectacular base ever.
Just my 2¢.
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Thanks for the guide, it'll help me exploit the alien bases if I ever have to play as a human.
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This might sound noob.. but....
How do you get the hitboxes? To appear as those red lines?
Might help me..
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It only works in devmap.
But the command is cg_drawbboxes 1
Just mess around when you are shooting things, see how far you can aim away and still hit.
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Here's an example of an alien base built on the upper ledge in the Karith elevator room.
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8284/shot0006gh6.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0006gh6.jpg)
Notice:
* The acid tube pairs blocking the vent and the side access around the boxes.
* The eggs being spread around.
Of course, that room also needs acid tubes around the door (not shown here), otherwise a human with a jetpack can get in the room, take to the air and just start shooting everything on the ledge.
There are probably ways in which this setup can be made better, please advise.
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Omh. :o !
First. JP :jetpack: guys will buy a flame throwers, cannons than splash dammage everything even without getting out of the went. The alliens smallest structure is a trapper :trapper:. It have size of a dretch :dretch:. You may place it directly inside the went if you want to block it. Otherwise, if you want do defend the wents but left if passable for dretches :dretch: you may block it that way that only drench sized unit could pass, than block it with some tought structure like hovel :hovel: or barricades. And don't forget to place tubes :acidtube: around the exit.
Place the eggs :egg: in a dispersed style everywhere except the floor! Boosters :booster: should be palnted on a suicide close distance to battlefield, so as closer than its better.
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Quiz time again. Spot the mistakes in this base: :)
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8654/shot0029.jpg)
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SPOILERS
-barricades
-clustered eggs
-no easy tyrant defensive access to overmind
-all acid tubes clustered
-nothing to stop luci jumpers
-nothing to guard the other side of the base
-no trappers
-no acid near eggs and overmind
-overmind can be shot from the bottom without even going up the ramp--> bad overmind placement
-eggs can both be easily covered/destroyed by people on the other ledge(where pic is taken from) so nobody can spawn to defend
did i miss something?
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Only some selective details. Such as the easy forgotten fact that humans can strafe jump directly from one ledge to the other on ATCS, so you don't actually need fancy luci jumps or grenade jumps, and you can do it even during S1.
Some of the mistakes can be forgotten because the aliens were probably S1. Hence the absence of trappers and the fact you should place structures on walls and ceilings rather than the ground, to reduce grenade or luci damage. And we don't know for sure that the other side is not protected, it's not in the picture.
And now some explanations for those who are learning.
Clustered alien structures will be more easily affected by zone damage attacks such as luci, flamer, grenade etc. So space them apart whenever possible, and place them on walls or ceilings once you get S2 and advanced grangers.
A side note: on ATCS, it is possible to place some stuff on tilted walls even with normal granger. Experiment on devmap and see when those structures turn green.
While protecting the ramp to OM with tubes is useful, don't overdo it. Expert players will know how to avoid them anyway, and you're limiting access for your own classes (rants or normal grangers). I prefer placing just 2-3 tubes there, near the corner of the ledge, but leave the way open. You'd be surprised how often humans will prefer letting them alone and run past if they can. But they take damage that way and are easier to kill.
This is actually a good idea for tube placement. If they are scattered around and don't seem to hinder the humans too much, a lot of players will leave (some of) them alone. Only very cautious players will destroy an alien base methodically, bit by bit. Plus, they tend to focus on eggs and OM anyway.
Barricades are quite seldom useful. They are good as temporary solutions, to gain you a few extra seconds by blocking a passageway. But usually the build points are better spent on other structures. Barricades seem to be preferred by newbies because it gives them a (false) feeling of security, of "closing down" their base. An alien base should be an open and inviting trap, not a solid box.
Which brings to mind another issue about tubes. They should be placed in such a way that in order to shoot them the human needs to get close enough to get damage from them. Ideally, there should be trappers around that ensure that once the human gets there he can't leave easily.
I hope I don't need to stress how important OM and eggs are for the aliens. So the should be well protected. But at the same time, aliens have the ability to recover even after complete OM+eggs wipeout (granted, it's hard and even harder on a small map like ATCS).
Another important point: bases aren't supposed to be fixed from start to end of game. Actually, they should evolve according to stage and game situation. An alien builder is freed from the tedious task of repairing structures, and they build faster than humans. They should use that precious time to reconfigure the base when needed.
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Name: Hovel Sentience: 0
HP: 375 Regen: 20/second
Use: The Hovel can hide grangers but in reality this ability is
useless. It’s more common use is as a ‘free’ barricade. This
because of it’s high regeneration rate and quite broad hitbox.
Loc: In front of the Overmind or blocking an entry path. Since their
hitbox is not as high as that of a barricade humans can jump
over it, losing stamina in the progress or waisting ammo on it.
Only one can be built and it can only be built on the floor.
HOVEL USED AS A BARRICADE
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Drietand/TremulousAlienBuildings/Hovelasbarricade.jpg)
Damn u 1.2!!! >:|
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a granger without its hovel is like a fish out of water :( :granger: :hovel:
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a granger without its hovel is like a fish out of water :( :granger: :hovel:
yumm pescado
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Hello Guys! This is my first post :D.
The alien base in the picture has been obviously built by a real nub. The barricade is completely useless there and can be easily psawed from below, because it goes out of the ledge, or chaingunned -- it's wide open.
See ya in Trem later!
Edit: If you psaw that barricade, you are not taking damage from tubes. So, a small rush (1 psaw 2 lasguns) can kill easily that base. OM can be easily destroyed by lasgun/md/chaingun/rifle rather easily from afar. Last but not least, dying retreating :dragoon: that are trying to defend and failed (not that hard with that base!) have nowhere to heal safely, as 2 good lasguns can pwn a goon so easily, specially when the poor :dragoon: is just out of combat.
did i miss something?