Tremulous Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Azrael07 on October 13, 2008, 09:05:36 pm
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Hello,
The members of the wwF* ( World Wide Froggies } and the tHc (The Hell with Campers ) clans have decided to reproduce the TFT project (http://tot.tremforges.net/cms/index.php?page=what-was-tft) (Tremulous french tournament) in a new edition.
In few words and for the ones who wouldn’t know about it, the first tournamant has occured in the beginning of 2008 with all the french teams. From what we have heard about it afterwards, we can say that it was a success.
So have we decided to bring it to international level admitting all teams, no restrictions about where they are from. So we won’t talk about TFT but TOT for Tremulous Open Tournament.
So, you're now able to go to website to register your clan. You have access here at the general conduct about the tournament, at the rules and at the site and all your you have the opportunity to ask us wathever you would want to know about the TOT. You have a view on the general presentation of the event and the goals of it.
You will find response to many questions on the website (http://tot.tremforges.net) (rules, planning, team registeration, etc...)
If you can't find a good response for your question, don't hesitate to ask, here, on TOT forum or on IRC, we will be happy to add it to our faq.
If you havn't clan but you would like to take part to tournament, you can post on our forum to find teamates to make a new lineup (or to play on an existing team as mercenary)
Short planning summary (see planning (http://tot.tremforges.net/cms/index.php?page=planning) on official website for more details)
- Oct 13 : TOT annoucement
- Nov 2 : clan's registeration closure
- Nov 7 : first playoff match
- Dec 9 : last playoff match
- Jan 11 : quarter final
- Jan 18 : semifinal
- Jan 25 : final, and end of tournament
Yours, the TOT staff
Website: http://tot.tremforges.net (http://tot.tremforges.net)
IRC Channel: #trem-ot @ irc.freenode.org
So... Enjoy, and Good luck ! :)
Notice about the other tournament project: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9315.0 (http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9315.0)
When this topic was publicated, we were allready working on TOT. We decided to continue TOT organisation because:
- Void of Deity plane to focus tournament in US, TOT plane to focus in europe (ping issue)
- Void of Deity plane to make a "pickup" tournament, TOT want to organise a Clan's tournament.
So, I think there two tournaments hasn't any reasons to bother themself.
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I (American) was actually thinking about getting my clan to register, until I saw that you disallow reactor hopping. What reason could you possibly have for disallowing any team specific strategies? That leads to inbalance, in my opinion.
The reason for my posting this here is not to flame you, but rather a request: Will you at least put a poll up somewhere to see if 50% or more other players agree with me that RC hopping is a viable and perfectly legal strategy? And if so, then would you be willing to change that rule?
Other question: Is the TOT server going to be lagged, or unlagged? I looked for the server.cfg that you referenced, but could not find it.
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Reactorhopping is a valid strategy. Building counts for just as much as combat. If you can't put two turrets in a position that allows them to shoot above the RC, you need to learn how to build.
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About RC hopping, bassically, we disabled it because, with only 4 players in team's lineup, it's really too easy to destroy a human base without any defenders. RC hopping with a goon, shoot the reac, and, in 1 minute, human base is down (when I see how some players are able to make RC hopping so easly even with a perfect human base...). So, only spot available for humans are low ceilinged, and, in some maps, it's sometime hard (or impossible) to find a good low ceilinged spot.
Deny RC hopping will make humans able to leave their base for a while with all their players (only 4) without having to keep a defender every time they attack. This rule was allready up in TFT and many people agree, because it permit more dynamic games (and make humans able to fight aliens outside the humains base at 4vs4 and not 3vs4)
However, you're allowed to take up the reactor if a human is able to see you (or able to hear you), so, you're able to take up the reactor to protect yourself during a rush, and to make humans destroy themself their reactor with a BIIIG luci SHOT ! :D
We don't plane to accept to change this rule : if we accept to change a rule, then, we will probably have to change an other, then, another, etc... There rules worked for TFT, I don't see any reason why they will work for TOT too.
I hope you understand our reasons, even if you disagree.
EDIT: oh, I forgot. RC hopping has its part of bug too. First, reactor attack source is at reactor basement, instead of reactor center, So, when you're on the reactor, reactor deals very few damages. It should deal more damages. Second, turret attack vertically only if they see the center of the opposant hitbox. So, even with a large fire range, turret will ignore enemy. More over, reactor hitbox is really bigest than visible model, and square.
This screenshot (http://azrael07.org/turretsareblind.jpg) give details (all turrets are off here, but you can see turret I'm on see the goon perfectly)
About unlagged, it will be off.
There is many debates around unlagged. Basically, 50% teams like it, 50% teams doesn't like.
So, we chose to disable unlagged because tremulous 1.1 is designed without unlagged. Unlagged is a big gameplay change, so, we decide to play without unlagged, like the original tremulous 1.1. Developpers seems to design a tremulous 1.2 with unlagged, so, if we'll organise tournaments under 1.2, it will be played with unlagged on
If you're US, I know it's really hard to play without unlagged on an EU server (and probably impossible to win against strongers EU teams :( ), but... I don't know any reliable solution against lag issues :'(
Details about server.cfg will be released soon (we have so many things to do ^^')
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Best wishes from the Void of Deity crew for this event...I truly hope this revives the clan scene even more! I'll make a comment about it on our Forums to see if any of our members' clans are interested in signing up.
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I appreciate you addressing my concerns, but regret to inform you my clan will most likely not be making an appearance, due to the RC hop rule, and lagged European bias.
Best wishes with the tourney, however.
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Very interesting ... I'm glad to learn about this tournament, i'll transmit it to my circle ;)
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Spawn kill is forbidden, penalty : !slap 0 / If persists, slap 10 / 20/ 30 etc. A given up spawn has to be destroyed immediatly. In return, spawnblock is allowed : you can go on a spawn to prevent players respawn.
Reactor jump is forbidden. The meaning of it is : « reactor attacking by aliens when there is no human in base. » So if there is/are one or more humans in base, the reactor attack is allowed because it is not considered as a reactor jump. On the other hand, if the human base is empty, aliens can't attack the reactor.
In the matter of camping, you're free to do as you wish. Nevertheless, extreme camping will be sanctionned as the spawnkill system. For finish, don't forget your match summary :)
Oh no, let's just outlaw half the game.
Yes, let's encourage people to leave nodes undefended and fail at building. That'd surely be the best way to ensure that the best team wins. Also, reactor hop damage from the top is not a bug.
Somehow you want to foster competitive spirit with rules made to discourage people from playing the game to win. No thanks.
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I'll sign up just for fun, but I'm definitely with dante that the RC rule is dumb and europeans are gonna have unfair advantage
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Screw you guys! I'm gonna make my own tournament! With hookers... and blackjack!
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Screw you guys! I'm gonna make my own tournament! With hookers... and blackjack!
make it poker instead of blackjack and i'm in.
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Hell, forget the blackjack! And the tournament!
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I think I might join this Tournament...
Reactor jump is forbidden
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About unlagged, it will be off.
Reactor jump is forbidden
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About unlagged, it will be off.
:o
*Hendrich runs away*
Anyways, good luck with the tournament! :D
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While you're at it.
Add these rules please.
Make game more fair.
No Evolving
No using the armoury or medstation
No firing weapons
No Biting things, stay far enough away that you wont hurt it
No spawning
No teamchat
No teamspeak
No teamwork(you must be at least 30 feet away from any and all team members at all times
No Camping, Agression, or Rushing of any kind
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Annihilation, what will the penalty be for not adhering to your rules? !slap, or something worse?
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Annihilation, what will the penalty be for not adhering to your rules? !slap, or something worse?
Permanent subnet ban of course.
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The being finished speaking and fixed his looks upon me in the expectation of a reply. But I was bewildered, perplexed, and unable to arrange my ideas sufficiently to understand the full extent of his proposition. He continued,
"You must create a female for me with whom I can live in the interchange of those sympathies necessary for my being. This you alone can do, and I demand it of you as a right which you must not refuse to concede."
The latter part of his tale had kindled anew in me the anger that had died away while he narrated his peaceful life among the cottagers, and as he said this I could no longer suppress the rage that burned within me.
"I do refuse it," I replied; "and no torture shall ever extort a consent from me. You may render me the most miserable of men, but you shall never make me base in my own eyes. Shall I create another like yourself, whose joint wickedness might desolate the world. Begone! I have answered you; you may torture me, but I will never consent."
"You are in the wrong," replied the fiend; "and instead of threatening, I am content to reason with you. I am malicious because I am miserable. Am I not shunned and hated by all mankind? You, my creator, would tear me to pieces and triumph; remember that, and tell me why I should pity man more than he pities me? You would not call it murder if you could precipitate me into one of those ice-rifts and destroy my frame, the work of your own hands. Shall I respect man when he condemns me? Let him live with me in the interchange of kindness, and instead of injury I would bestow every benefit upon him with tears of gratitude at his acceptance. But that cannot be; the human senses are insurmountable barriers to our union. Yet mine shall not be the submission of abject slavery. I will revenge my injuries; if I cannot inspire love, I will cause fear, and chiefly towards you my arch-enemy, because my creator, do I swear inextinguishable hatred. Have a care; I will work at your destruction, nor finish until I desolate your heart, so that you shall curse the hour of your birth."
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Been a long time since I read Frankenstein unabridged, assuming that's what we're dealing with here.
Also, +1 for Yarou waxing poetic, even if it isn't his original work.
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edit: fixed your quote tags -kev
Oh no, let's just outlaw half the game.
Yes, let's encourage people to leave nodes undefended and fail at building. That'd surely be the best way to ensure that the best team wins. Also, reactor hop damage from the top is not a bug.
Somehow you want to foster competitive spirit with rules made to discourage people from playing the game to win. No thanks.
About nodes, it done to promote humans move. It's pretty uncommon to see a move base during a clan war. It's so dangerous...
You give to opponent many frags (without defences, dretch eats easly many humans), you take risk to fail your move and loose the game...
And... if you simply lost control your old nodes for a while and you're against unfair opponents, you're pretty sure to loose the game too.
So, don't move, make a bunker base without any outpost to avoid reactor jump (I explained why it's a bug, you havn't explain why it isn't ...).
So yes, let's make a tournament and allow people to win with unfair rules. Let's promote camp, let's promote SD victories, and let's have only boring matches.
Sorry, that's not the purpose of this tournament...
It's very strange, coming from a developper, to see one of most firing message against a tournament to promote the game you're developping...
About unlagged... yeah, sorry again. There is no issue to make everyone happy. We chose to centralize tournament in UE.
So I think Void of Deity tournament will be better for US.
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the fact that the reactor does 20 times less damage to aliens above it than to aliens at its sides and under it is proof that reactor hops are intended (or just ask norf, he's been hopping reactors for as long as tremulous has existed)
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Well guys, that's a discussion between European game style and American gam style. In EU we prefer to focus the game on the fight in open areas, we do lage use of support outpost and becouse of that, we don't like to finish a game without hard fights. So we don't like RC hopping. That's all. European gaming style has developed that way, and a really few EU clans will play in a tournament with US "rules".
About antilag. Antilag is a great thing if teams have high ping or great ping differences, but it will not allow to "dodge" the enemy and close combat is the way of play that EU players prefer.
So, as Eu player, i think this rules are a good work, and i'm probably subscribe my team to the match.
So, good work TOT team ans cu in the arena ;)
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While I agree that camping is a bitch, even a beginner can make an unhoppable base in atcs. And if you can't move your reactor successfully in the first few seconds of the game against dretches, then your clan was majorly outclassed to begin with, and the scrimmage would've been a joke anyway.
As for unlagged: It "gives unfair advantage to" players with high ping, correct? So if you're gonna bitch about it, why not just host the tournament in the US? Our players can rape yours even with you having the high ping "advantage," so it wouldn't even be an issue.
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While I agree that camping is a bitch, even a beginner can make an unhoppable base in atcs. And if you can't move your reactor successfully in the first few seconds of the game against dretches, then your clan was majorly outclassed to begin with, and the scrimmage would've been a joke anyway.
want to know how to stop RC hops its a simple idea .... Defense.
i don't mean camp i mean one guy stays behind while the rest rush then you will never get a RC hop. simple idea that people just don't use
As for unlagged: It "gives unfair advantage to" players with high ping, correct? So if you're gonna bitch about it, why not just host the tournament in the US? Our players can rape yours even with you having the high ping "advantage," so it wouldn't even be an issue.
that's not the only issue its human biased because of the frequent shooting around corners etc
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@Slackerquote#1-
Slacker: You don't even need to leave a human behind, you can make an unhoppable base... can you not read what I'm typing? Invest in glasses, they're quite the rage these days.
@Slackerquote#2-
That's fine. I'm saying that as an American player, I'm fine with the Euro's having a few "biases,""enhancements," and "advantages" when they play against us. In all honesty, I feel that on a level playing field they'd be demolished, so on an unlagged field where they have a slight advantage, it'd be a little more exciting of a fight.
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I would like to point out to all the people here whining about the rules, but who would not take part in the tournament even if they were changed. GTFO. Time and time again it has been made clear that European and American players don't mix. Unlagged and views on what makes a fun game differ too radically when you cross the pond.
That's fine. I'm saying that as an American player, I'm fine with the Euro's having a few "biases,""enhancements," and "advantages" when they play against us. In all honesty, I feel that on a level playing field they'd be demolished, so on an unlagged field where they have a slight advantage, it'd be a little more exciting of a fight.
Quite the ego you have there...
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In all honesty, I feel that on a level playing field [Europeans would] be demolished
How 'level' the playing field is matters up until the point you start trying to play basketball on a football field. I'm suggesting that unlagged games are a different kind of game. To be more specific I'd say the unlagged games don't require the same degree of skill in leading and dodging. Whether this makes one 'better' than the other is a matter of opinion.
As for the restrictions on what you're allowed to do (spawn kills, RJ etc.) I can see that interfering/disrupting the flow of the game as well as rulings being too subjective. For instance when you are under attack from already spawned humans, killing off the humans as they spawn can be advisable IMO. Allowing them to spawn is just reducing your chances of surviving. Asking people to go against their survival instinct means asking them to use the slower parts of their brain that deal with such high level decision processes.
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nux
Spawn kill is forbidden, penalty : !slap 0 / If persists, slap 10 / 20/ 30 etc. A given up spawn has to be destroyed immediatly. In return, spawnblock is allowed : you can go on a spawn to prevent players respawn.
Reactor jump is forbidden. The meaning of it is : « reactor attacking by aliens when there is no human in base. » So if there is/are one or more humans in base, the reactor attack is allowed because it is not considered as a reactor jump. On the other hand, if the human base is empty, aliens can't attack the reactor
http://tot.tremforges.net/cms/index.php?page=rules (http://tot.tremforges.net/cms/index.php?page=rules)
Basically they don't want people to farm s3 off some abandoned spawn (incentive to move base) or ninja a base while people are attacking(incentive to not camp). So those things would be perfectly ok if there are people in the human base. Just so there is no confusion I am not part of the team organizing this tournament.
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Hello,
Spawn Killing is not as you explain as "not killing a human near a telenode". It is more like a basi near a isolated telenode, waiting for ppl, even avoiding a builder to deconstruct it, and even not trying to destroy the node ... (I didn't say you are obliged to destroy isolated building like turrets, or armory in an old human base ;) )
If you, aliens, are attacking the humans base, of course you can (and you should ^^) kill spawned humans ... You are even allowed to jump on the reactor (yes yes, true)
I don't think that wait near a telenode is more a part of survivor instinct than destroy the telenode (and kill the human spawning on it during you destroy the telenode). By Spawn-kills we mean : if you are near a node, be fair play, destroy it (and eventually if a human spawns in it, kill him). As Azra told us, it is just to favour things like a moove base, an attack with all the team, building outpost etc.
And honnestly, killing a no defended base with two goons is not hard at all ... (some could certainly do it alone ... so ?)
EDIT : sorry janev to just repeat what you posted, but I need to see many words in the dictionnary so I need a big time to write a (10/20 at school) post ... sorry ^^
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Ok so you draw the line where the humans are aware you are there?
This still requires assessment time (disrupts flow) and the line blurs in cases where "I thought you knew I was there!" (subjective). Don't get me wrong, it's good that you're trying to encourage more interesting games. I just hope that these rules aren't a little too imposing.
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You are allowed to destroy the node, then to kill humans spawners ... you are even allowed to kill spawning humans, then kill another human, come back to the node, kill the spawning human etc ... when there are no more coming humans, destroy the telenode ...that is all :P
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Thanks Briaeros.
It's the opportunity for all to make live 'a little more' tremulous. In everything cases ( Is that english ? ) we simply search to gather most possible Tremulous Players, in a good ambience.
Thank you for your encouragement ;)
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If you change the rule about unlagged our clan may enter, but I dont see that happening.
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How about every (eu-vs-us) match takes 4 plays, two on a US server, two on EU servers. High-ping team gets to pick unlagged.
Will take a while but is "fair" ish as it were. (Also, IMO secondary sort should be time-to-win not kills or a rematch)
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Disallowing a basic Tremulous strategy, such as destroying a Reactor that is both undefended by the members of its team, as well as the defensive buildables (read: Turrets and Teslas), that are obviously placed incorrectly around said Reactor, is a sure way to keep all the normal players far, far away.
Disallowing spawnkilling is a good incentive for people to spam spawns all over the map, since they do not risk feeding the opposing team to Stage3 that easily.
In short: This sounds like a tournament for retards.
[PS] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/primordial
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Unfortunately, I have to agree.
Some of this tournament's rules are, quite frankly, ridiculous. Disallowing reactor-hopping when there are no humans in the base is like telling people not to attack an alien if it has no teammates nearby. If the humans are too stupid to build a decent base or leave someone behind to defend (God forbid!), they deserve to lose.
Furthermore, if one team spawn-camps itself to stage 3, isn't it the other team's fault for leaving the spawn there in the first place? Sure, maybe they keep a backup when performing a base move. But anyone with half a brain goes back to deconstruct it after the move is done.
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Good luck with your tournament, even if your rules are idiotic/shortsighted - they are yours to make :-)
Khalsa
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Also it's a simple matter to make a base where 3-4 turrets can shoot the top of the reactor, able to kill any thing on top of it from basi to goon.
And if you're too fail to be able to do that, teslas are always an option.
(More indepth version of what Lava Croft already stated.)
Also Lava, it's great to see a European with some sense, I retract earlier derogatory statements about players from that continent... these jokers are just giving the rest of you a bad name.
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they are yours to make :-)
Kudos to that....
Might I recommend that instead of arguing rules here, we simply state our opinion and then encourage the tournement :-) Granted I'm coming from Void's perspective of simply promoting the game, and this tourney does that even if the rules don't fit people's biases (which seem to be viewed as moral rules by the owners of such biases... :D)
//rant over
I still wish the best of luck to the tourney. :D
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This sounds like a tournament for retards.
Na, the worst the changes will do is make the game harder....very...very..harder.....
I hope the Void Tourny will have, umm, more reasoning to the rules. ^^
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Disallowing spawnkilling is a good incentive for people to spam spawns all over the map, since they do not risk feeding the opposing team to Stage3 that easily.
In short: This sounds like a tournament for retards.
Spamming nodes might not give the aliens any/many kills but it sure will get them a helluvalot of evos. I'm not sure if you've quite thought this through.
There are criticisms to make here, but I don't think the rules are anywhere near as bad as you and others are making out. I've played clanmatches with similar rules (such as no RJ) in the past and found them slightly troublesome but they still 'worked'. We were able to play and the majority of the game still concerns (as it should) in-the-open fighting.
I wonder how many people here condemning the rules have actually tried them. I don't think it's fair to discourage those who are willing to try it by referring to it as 'retarded'.
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I think it falls under the category of "my house my rules". I seem to recall some of the people posting here using a similar argument on many occasions.
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If reactor hopping is forbidden, then why isn't OM sawing? It's the same tactic, not allowing 1 means unbalanced game.
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If reactor hopping is forbidden, then why isn't OM sawing? It's the same tactic, not allowing 1 means unbalanced game.
Quit trying to bring logic into this!
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No problem with poeple who disagree with one ore two rules, we can easily speak about it.
You know as well that we, that certain person (Admin?), put apart criticize, are comparatively restricted in their judgement ( Maybe searching free troll / flame ).
I wouldn't answer these people. You chose not to have your place in this tournament, that's all. ( I speak only about one person you will have definitely understood me, you arn't stupid and understand about what I'm speaking )
Simply to those, that tries to discuss with 'respect' and to understand without provocation, you'r welcomed guys :)
The better thing to do, is to post on the TOT's Forum :
- http://tot.tremforges.net/forum/
we hope to unite most persons and possible teams, in a good ambiance.
Thanks.
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No problem with poeple who disagree with one ore two rules, we can easily speak about it.
You know as well that we, that certain person (Admin?), put apart criticize, are comparatively restricted in their judgement ( Maybe searching free troll / flame ).
I wouldn't answer these people. You chose not to have your place in this tournament, that's all. ( I speak only about one person you will have definitely understood me, you arn't stupid and understand about what I'm speaking )
Simply to those, that tries to discuss with 'respect' and to understand without provocation, you'r welcomed guys :)
The better thing to do, is to post on the TOT's Forum :
- http://tot.tremforges.net/forum/
we hope to unite most persons and possible teams, in a good ambiance.
Thanks.
nice, um....
response?
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I think it falls under the category of "my house my rules". I seem to recall some of the people posting here using a similar argument on many occasions.
Just as people are free to make up their own rules, people are also free to make up their own mind.
Also Lava, it's great to see a European with some sense, I retract earlier derogatory statements about players from that continent... these jokers are just giving the rest of you a bad name.
I think it's people like you that give Americans a bad name, not to mention the fact that people like you use Unlagged.
Final note: I am looking forward to see some demos of this tournament.
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Final note: I am looking forward to see some demos of this tournament.
If only for the chat logs?
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I'm looking forward to seeing how serverside demos work for this. Should be awesome.
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Final note: I am looking forward to see some demos of this tournament.
If only for the chat logs?
No, I am just very curious how such a constrained Tremulous game would work out.
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If reactor hopping is forbidden, then why isn't OM sawing? It's the same tactic, not allowing 1 means unbalanced game.
Quit trying to bring logic into this!
But he has right. Reactor hoping is regular tactic and when you build good base, then aliens can't use this tactic, viz: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=8755.0
And for example on niveus humans can use "Overming hopping tactic" :D. They can just fall down to OM and saw OM from top. It's similar like situation with RC.
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I find the rules of the tournament very good,they make the game faster and funnier,and if you wonder why should we create new rules(like denied rc jump etc etc),that's because tremulous isn't perfect(such an unbalanced game,but i love it:) ),so we're trying to play as we like!
And trust me when i say the game is funnier,i just spected some american clanwars and i had never seen so campy and boring games! ::)
I hope a lot of clans will apply to this tournament
P.S. sorry for my english!
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P.S. sorry for my english!
Your English is great, don't worry about it. :)
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Thanks Ambigioz :)
We already tried all this rules in the TFT, the result in match was simply good. The spectators all appreciated to watch the games.
Fast / Funny / Efficient / good ambience / with skill :), is a Great combo :)
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i just spected some american clanwars and i had never seen so campy and boring games!
I agree with this.
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I find the rules of the tournament very good,they make the game faster and funnier,and if you wonder why should we create new rules(like denied rc jump etc etc),that's because tremulous isn't perfect(such an unbalanced game,but i love it:) ),so we're trying to play as we like!
And trust me when i say the game is funnier,i just spected some american clanwars and i had never seen so campy and boring games! ::)
I hope a lot of clans will apply to this tournament
P.S. sorry for my english!
who's this, a TOT-alt?
:D
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Rules look good to me.
But, what about Saw rushes?
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For me too. I like aggressive & hard gaming style. Winning by reactor jump is a joke. But please, don't insult anyone. We, Europeans have diffrent game aspects. IMHO, our scrims are more funny and interesting than Ur's.
+1 BriareoS/Ambigioz
probably, eVo gonna sign up.
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I agree to disallow RC jump in 4vs4 (I'm European :D).
Btw, could you add a newsletter or RSS feed with all the news, clans that sing up, reminders a week before, etc into the website?
(if there already is... just forgive my blindness)
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Rules look good to me.
But, what about Saw rushes?
quit trying to bring fairness into this!
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aliens are quick, their radar covers more or less the routes to their base, they get a warning when OM is under attack, and they base requires uprgrading of its buildables in each stage so a granger is most likely to be there. also, they can easily make outposts so losing an om is not that large issue. especially after s2.
a routine eggspam on the tournament levels such as niveus and karith can extend the lifespan of the alien team greatly.
thats why i don'T think sawproof OM protection is necessary.
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GO [F]lame!
since i like that there is a nice organised tournament going on in europe, i don'T care if its necro
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2 months necro