Tremulous Forum
General => Feedback => Topic started by: Roanoke on October 25, 2008, 03:24:55 am
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I wish I had the ability to do a bind like:
bind shift+w "say_team ..."And the same goes for alt and control, and whatever other supported modifier keys.
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Well, they way we do this is with VSTRs.
F.e.:
bind SHIFT "vstr chatter1"
set chatter1 "bind 1 say_team Defend!; bind 2 say_team Attack!; bind 3 say_team Out of my way!; bind SHIFT vstr chatter2"
set chatter2 "exec autoexec.cfg; bind SHIFT vstr chatter1"
If there are any errors in that one please point them out.
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Well, they way we do this is with VSTRs.
F.e.:
bind SHIFT "vstr chatter1"
set chatter1 "bind 1 say_team Defend!; bind 2 say_team Attack!; bind 3 say_team Out of my way!; bind SHIFT vstr chatter2"
set chatter2 "exec autoexec.cfg; bind SHIFT vstr chatter1"
If there are any errors in that one please point them out.
this doesn't work because pressing shift then w still causes the chat (you would need to bind to a key release to fix this). the reason you can't (easily) bind something to modifier keys is that the engine doesn't treat them as such, since they are valuable real estate on the keyboard (easy to reach quickly and accurately).
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/me adds key modifier binds to his TODO list
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Yes, Quake and Quake II can do this.
alias +shiftmod "bind w say A"
alias -shiftmod "bind w say B"
bind shift +shiftmod
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It'd be awesome if this was implemented. I could have talk binds on the alt key, build binds on the shift key, and evolution/buying binds on the control key, while reusing the same keys but with different modifiers. Several modifiers would be nice, something like
bind control+alt+z+x "say_team ..."
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It'd be awesome if this was implemented. I could have talk binds on the alt key, build binds on the shift key, and evolution/buying binds on the control key, while reusing the same keys but with different modifiers. Several modifiers would be nice, something like
bind control+alt+z+x "say_team ..."
you can already do this with some patience and a client that can bind to key releases (lava's post should give you the idea).
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Apparently I missed something. Didn't lava's post concern quake and not tremulous? Moreover, I believe this should be in the official client.
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Tremulous is based on Quake.
The developers are hardly going to re-release the official (ancient) client, now that there are so many of them floating around.
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Ah, so lava's method works for trem too?
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It should, although I haven't tried it. You'll have to get an alias-enabled client (TremFusion springs to mind).
[EDIT] Typomania...
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Well, they way we do this is with VSTRs.
F.e.:
bind SHIFT "vstr chatter1"
set chatter1 "bind 1 say_team Defend!; bind 2 say_team Attack!; bind 3 say_team Out of my way!; bind SHIFT vstr chatter2"
set chatter2 "exec autoexec.cfg; bind SHIFT vstr chatter1"
If there are any errors in that one please point them out.
this doesn't work because pressing shift then w still causes the chat (you would need to bind to a key release to fix this). the reason you can't (easily) bind something to modifier keys is that the engine doesn't treat them as such, since they are valuable real estate on the keyboard (easy to reach quickly and accurately).
Well, thats why I suggested to rebind the number keys on pressing the shift button. And by pressing it the second time it executes the standard binds in autoexec.cfg thus reverting the number keys to their initial state.
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Ah, so lava's method works for trem too?
Tremulous is based on Quake 3
Yes, Quake and Quake II can do this.
Tremulous can't, without modification.
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Tremfusion can do lava's way ;D
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Tremfusion can do lava's way ;D
so can mg's client and fsm, but i didn't go advertising any of the 3 for a reason >.>
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Yes, Quake and Quake II can do this.
Tremulous can't, without modification.
Oh, really? :)
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so can mg's client and fsm, but i didn't go advertising any of the 3 for a reason >.>
Why not? I mean if people want to use the modifier keys then why not mention that those three clients support it? Unless of course I'm missing something.
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Yes, Quake and Quake II can do this.
Tremulous can't, without modification.
Oh, really? :)
Oh great and wise Lava Croft, please show us the way!
Deliver us from our ignorance!
In all seriousness, though, I've long been wondering how do do it without getting a new client.
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Yes, Quake and Quake II can do this.
Tremulous can't, without modification.
Oh, really? :)
id removed alias in q3, vstr only binds to key presses, not key releases. so can mg's client and fsm, but i didn't go advertising any of the 3 for a reason >.>
Why not? I mean if people want to use the modifier keys then why not mention that those three clients support it? Unless of course I'm missing something.
because binding to key releases provides a significant advantage (in some circumstances) over players with 1.1 clients.
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because binding to key releases provides a significant advantage (in some circumstances) over players with 1.1 clients.
...which is why we didn't add it in the MG client, as far as I remember. So tremfusion and possibly fsm are the only ones that will do it at present.
We have improved keyup bind handling, but that's not anything as exciting as it sounds. It just means that things like bind j "echo hi; +forward" work in a much more intuitive manner.
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No, we didn't. You're right.
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But does this have a chance of getting implemented in the MG or main client?
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because binding to key releases provides a significant advantage (in some circumstances) over players with 1.1 clients.
Care to give an example? (I'm not implying the circumstances don't exist, merely wondering which circumstances you were thinking of)
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because binding to key releases provides a significant advantage (in some circumstances) over players with 1.1 clients.
Care to give an example? (I'm not implying the circumstances don't exist, merely wondering which circumstances you were thinking of)
setting a high mouse sensitivity normally and lowering it while the fire button is held.
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Boy, that's such a significant advantage in a world where mice have special buttons to set your DPI, which in effect sets your sensitivitity.
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power of the ultrabinds in a world where 80% of the players are not aware of the existence of bindings in global is not really important.
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setting a high mouse sensitivity normally and lowering it while the fire button is held.
I see your point. All the quick turns of high-sens coupled with the precision of low. I'm not sure if I'd like all the sensitivity switches though. I perform best when I've adjusted to ONE sens.
Boy, that's such a significant advantage in a world where mice have special buttons to set your DPI, which in effect sets your sensitivity.
In the case of sensitivity modifiers inbuilt into the mouse, these are (in all cases I know of) separate buttons that need to be pressed to adjust it each time. This is equivalent to the bind system already in use and so doesn't concern the 'release bind' issue. Still, the ability to change your sensitivity actively might be an issue in itself. I guess it's tolerable when it's not so easy to pull off.
power of the ultrabinds in a world where 80% of the players are not aware of the existence of bindings in global is not really important.
Surely it's the advantage that those 20% would have which makes this important.
The ability to customise your controls gives you an advantage by itself. A line needs to be drawn before the player has all the hard work done for them.
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Changing my DPI (sensitivity) requires me to press either a button above or a button below my mousewheel, a button which is touched by a spare middlefinger. So, it's really, really easy to pull off.
This talking about how aliases might be a disadvantage to people who do not have/use aliases is basically a cry to remove any kind of customisation from Tremulous, since any kind of of customisation is a 'disadvantage' to the person who does not know about it, or does not wish to use it.
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I believe you have the same mouse as me- Logitech MX518 gaming mouse -so I'm familiar with this feature. I wouldn't say it's "really really easy to pull off" since it requires so many additional clicks to move in and out of the respective DPIs. The point about the release bind is that it only requires the clicks you alredy make when firing.
The only time I ever use this feature is if I'm grabbed by a basi or spinning on walls as a mara. At any other point I find it far easier to just move the mouse more.
I'm not calling for customisation to be removed, I'm recognising the crux of the matter: To what extent do you allow for a players controls to be easier?
For example, let's add an output value concerning the enemies location and status so you can communicate this information quickly to your team. Let's also add an input value for changing the direction you're facing so that you can set your view efficiently. These changes would sure make it easier to play, don't you think?
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You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.
Also, please stop talking like a complete nutcase in your 'example'.
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IMO it should be in, but not until 1.2.
It can be used for advantage, (Like my forward dodge bind for mgdev), so shouldn't be added by 'backport' clients.
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For once, we share the same thoughts.
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You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.
Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.
Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.
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Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.
For example, let's add an output value concerning the enemies location and status so you can communicate this information quickly to your team. Let's also add an input value for changing the direction you're facing so that you can set your view efficiently. These changes would sure make it easier to play, don't you think?
This makes no sense when one tries to give it a place in the current discussion about 'alias'. You might as well just directly have mentioned using an aimbot.
Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.
I wouldn't say it's "really really easy to pull off"
For me, it is, which most likely means it is that easy for other people too, since I certainly do not posses some kind of superhuman manual dexterity.
And like someone else mentioned here, constantly changing the sensitivity of your mouse to suit your playing is hardly anything one would call an 'advantage'. I personally only change my sensitivity when starting and closing any game, not while playing it.
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This makes no sense when one tries to give it a place in the current discussion about 'alias'.
Unless of course you read the line above it.
I'm not calling for customisation to be removed, I'm recognising the crux of the matter: To what extent do you allow for a players controls to be easier?
You might as well just directly have mentioned using an aimbot.
I thought I'd leave something to the intelligence of the reader.
For me, it is, which most likely means it is that easy for other people too, since I certainly do not posses some kind of superhuman manual dexterity... I personally only change my sensitivity when starting and closing any game, not while playing it.
So you're saying that you have no trouble making use of the DPI modifier and at the same time saying you don't use it, in-game?
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You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.
Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.
Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.
because alias isn't necessarily a bad thing, anyone who has been paying attention knows i've asked timbo to add alias to 1.2, but right now it gives players a potentially large advantage over those with just a 1.1 client.
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You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.
Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.
Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.
because alias isn't necessarily a bad thing, anyone who has been paying attention knows i've asked timbo to add alias to 1.2, but right now it gives players a potentially large advantage over those with just a 1.1 client.
Hmm, why not pure protect it so 1.2 features can't be used on 1.1 servers and 1.1 clients can't be used on 1.2 servers.
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1.1 clients won't work with 1.2 servers anyway, i'm talking about current clients that provide alias.
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I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but this seems to have sidetracked. What exactly is an "alias"?
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/alias hi say hi
/hi
[H] Amanieu: hi
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And what is the advantage achieved through these?
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Less typing
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alias isn't a problem.
Letting you bind to key-up is.
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i don't see a problem with either of them or any advantage
alias cant be abused well no way that i can tell
same with +-keybinds whats gonna be the difference of binding a key press over key up and down one post says changing sensitivity when shooting but something like that would drive me crazy to control and mouse acceleration code will give you a similar and much easier effect.
if you think somethings bad post exact scenarios. the sensitivity ones like the only one that ive seen that describes a scenarios where someone thinks it might be bad
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Changing sensitivity when zoomed. (Very handy).
Forward dodge on dev.
Bumping gamma (flash light) easier.
Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down. (Do want).
Manually timed luci jumps (with automated aiming).
Auto crouching as you fire your chain-gun.
Buying more ammo every time you finish firing (assuming in range). (Camp time!).
One button crouch-jumps.
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Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down. (Do want).
Explain!
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If you build something, and then switch to the blaster, the timer doesn't go down.
If I have key-down switch to blaster and start firing, and key up stop firing and switch back, then I can maximise the time I have my ckit out while still shooting at aliens.
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Oh I see. I thought you meant the timer goes down as usual when the blaster is firing, as some sort of bug.
The timer does go down when using blaster by the way. It's just slower.
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Oh I see. I thought you meant the timer goes down as usual when the blaster is firing, as some sort of bug.
The timer does go down when using blaster by the way. It's just slower.
wrong
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Again, please be more specific.
I pressume you're saying that it isn't slower as this I'm less sure of. It always seemed slower so has it been changed at any point? It seems like I'm not the only one to have noticed some kind of slow down as david seems to think it stops completely.
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David is right. The older code only decrements the timer when you have the contruction kit out.
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As Slacker said, Key-up and alias cannot be abused in a significant manner, alias doesn't do a thing (apart from gaining 2 secs) and +-binds only let you have many actions on 1 button instead of 2, ie if a player found something issuable with the +- binds, he could also do it with 1 more buttons and 1 more finger.
What probably gives the biggest advantage is the non-blocking wait (/delay) as you could do a better pouncechomp script or a luci script that would never let a shot explode in your face (10-ammo shots ftw!)
About the cit timer, on servers running up to date qvms, the ckit timer also goes down when you hold the blaster.
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I'd say one more finger pressing one more button is pretty significant. That finger could be doing something else like pressing strafe or crouch to dodge something. Any less reason to move fingers away from their standard positions I see as advantagous. Whether the advantage is unfair or not is another matter.
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--- snip ---
Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down. (Do want).
Fixed in most recent QVMs. No need for a bind hax.
Auto crouching as you fire your chain-gun.
I have two hands and several fingers to press buttons at the same time.
Buying more ammo every time you finish firing (assuming in range). (Camp time!).
Left finger on the R key. Invokes <brain> though which might be occupied with other things.
One button crouch-jumps.
Creative use of VSTRs.
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Creative use of VSTRs.
that doesn't really work without binding to a key release to clean up
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I don't think hitting a bind twice in fast order is difficult to do. You could even put them in one simple bind with a little "wait" inbetween.