Modifier Binds

[David]

IMO it should be in, but not until 1.2.
It can be used for advantage, (Like my forward dodge bind for mgdev), so shouldn't be added by 'backport' clients.

[Lava Croft]

For once, we share the same thoughts.

[Nux]

You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.

Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.

Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.

[Lava Croft]

Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.

For example, let's add an output value concerning the enemies location and status so you can communicate this information quickly to your team. Let's also add an input value for changing the direction you're facing so that you can set your view efficiently. These changes would sure make it easier to play, don't you think?

This makes no sense when one tries to give it a place in the current discussion about 'alias'. You might as well just directly have mentioned using an aimbot.

Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.

I wouldn't say it's "really really easy to pull off"

For me, it is, which most likely means it is that easy for other people too, since I certainly do not posses some kind of superhuman manual dexterity.

And like someone else mentioned here, constantly changing the sensitivity of your mouse to suit your playing is hardly anything one would call an 'advantage'. I personally only change my sensitivity when starting and closing any game, not while playing it.

[Nux]

This makes no sense when one tries to give it a place in the current discussion about 'alias'.

Unless of course you read the line above it.

I'm not calling for customisation to be removed, I'm recognising the crux of the matter: To what extent do you allow for a players controls to be easier?

You might as well just directly have mentioned using an aimbot.

I thought I'd leave something to the intelligence of the reader.

For me, it is, which most likely means it is that easy for other people too, since I certainly do not posses some kind of superhuman manual dexterity... I personally only change my sensitivity when starting and closing any game, not while playing it.

So you're saying that you have no trouble making use of the DPI modifier and at the same time saying you don't use it, in-game?

[kevlarman]

You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.

Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.

Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.

because alias isn't necessarily a bad thing, anyone who has been paying attention knows i've asked timbo to add alias to 1.2, but right now it gives players a potentially large advantage over those with just a 1.1 client.

[Bissig]

You are missing my point. The argument that 'alias' should not be part of the default Tremulous client, because it might mean a disadvantage to other players, is invalid.

Then you go on to explain why it is invalid.

Yes I am nutty but my example isn't. If I need to explain it: I'm giving an extreme example of 'customisation' where you won't have to worry about the difficulty of aiming anymore.

because alias isn't necessarily a bad thing, anyone who has been paying attention knows i've asked timbo to add alias to 1.2, but right now it gives players a potentially large advantage over those with just a 1.1 client.

Hmm, why not pure protect it so 1.2 features can't be used on 1.1 servers and 1.1 clients can't be used on 1.2 servers.

[kevlarman]

1.1 clients won't work with 1.2 servers anyway, i'm talking about current clients that provide alias.

[Roanoke]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but this seems to have sidetracked. What exactly is an "alias"?

[Amanieu]

/alias hi say hi
/hi
[H] Amanieu: hi

[Roanoke]

And what is the advantage achieved through these?

[Amanieu]

Less typing

[David]

alias isn't a problem.
Letting you bind to key-up is.

[SlackerLinux]

i don't see a problem with either of them or any advantage

alias cant be abused well no way that i can tell
same with +-keybinds whats gonna be the difference of binding a key press over key up and down one post says changing sensitivity when shooting but something like that would drive me crazy to control and mouse acceleration code will give you a similar and much easier effect.

if you think somethings bad post exact scenarios. the sensitivity ones like the only one that ive seen that describes a scenarios where someone thinks it might be bad

[David]

Changing sensitivity when zoomed.  (Very handy).
Forward dodge on dev.
Bumping gamma (flash light) easier. 
Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down.  (Do want).
Manually timed luci jumps (with automated aiming).
Auto crouching as you fire your chain-gun.
Buying more ammo every time you finish firing (assuming in range).  (Camp time!).
One button crouch-jumps.

[Nux]

Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down.  (Do want).

Explain!

[David]

If you build something, and then switch to the blaster, the timer doesn't go down.
If I have key-down switch to blaster and start firing, and key up stop firing and switch back, then I can maximise the time I have my ckit out while still shooting at aliens.

[Nux]

Oh I see. I thought you meant the timer goes down as usual when the blaster is firing, as some sort of bug.

The timer does go down when using blaster by the way. It's just slower.

[kevlarman]

Oh I see. I thought you meant the timer goes down as usual when the blaster is firing, as some sort of bug.

The timer does go down when using blaster by the way. It's just slower.

wrong

[Nux]

Again, please be more specific.

I pressume you're saying that it isn't slower as this I'm less sure of. It always seemed slower so has it been changed at any point? It seems like I'm not the only one to have noticed some kind of slow down as david seems to think it stops completely.

[Syntac]

David is right. The older code only decrements the timer when you have the contruction kit out.

[kangounator]

As Slacker said, Key-up and alias cannot be abused in a significant manner, alias doesn't do a thing (apart from gaining 2 secs) and +-binds only let you have many actions on 1 button instead of 2, ie if a player found something issuable with the +- binds, he could also do it with 1 more buttons and 1 more finger.

What probably gives the biggest advantage is the non-blocking wait (/delay) as you could do a better pouncechomp script or a luci script that would never let a shot explode in your face (10-ammo shots ftw!)

About the cit timer, on servers running up to date qvms, the ckit timer also goes down when you hold the blaster.

[Nux]

I'd say one more finger pressing one more button is pretty significant. That finger could be doing something else like pressing strafe or crouch to dodge something. Any less reason to move fingers away from their standard positions I see as advantagous. Whether the advantage is unfair or not is another matter.

[Bissig]

--- snip ---

Switching to blaster only when firing so your ckit still ticks down.  (Do want).

Fixed in most recent QVMs. No need for a bind hax.

Auto crouching as you fire your chain-gun.

I have two hands and several fingers to press buttons at the same time.

Buying more ammo every time you finish firing (assuming in range).  (Camp time!).

Left finger on the R key. Invokes <brain> though which might be occupied with other things.

One button crouch-jumps.

Creative use of VSTRs.

[kevlarman]

Creative use of VSTRs.

that doesn't really work without binding to a key release to clean up

[Bissig]

I don't think hitting a bind twice in fast order is difficult to do. You could even put them in one simple bind with a little "wait" inbetween.