Author Topic: Can some one give me some good mapping advise?  (Read 6332 times)

Squall503

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« on: July 06, 2006, 07:35:27 am »
yeah i just want some good map advise from everyone who wants to share wit me.

Squall503

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2006, 07:51:38 am »
so yeah i guess not huh

[db@]Megabite

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2006, 08:31:59 am »
How about having a look at the sticky posts in the mapping forum and asking things that are still unclear after working through some tutorials? ;)

Danny
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


kozak6

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 08:54:15 am »
It will often take more than 20 minutes for someone to reply to a thread.

Chill, and check out the mapping forum.  That's what it's for, you know.

Squall503

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2006, 09:15:35 pm »
alright thanks

DarkRogue

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 03:27:05 am »
1) Your first map will be crap. Hell likely your second, third, fourth, fifth...and so on if you're like me will be crap ;) In general your early works won't be good and for the love of god never release your very first playible map, if you have no experience mapping the playability is limited to the fact that people can spawn not any thought on gameplay.

2) Avoid CSG subtract at first. If cutting a square hole out of a square solid wall then go for it. However cutting a multi surface area at wierd angles leads to more headaches at compile time than building brushes from scratch. Get into the habit of building regardless and you'll never miss CSG subtract.

3) Research your vid card against how trem normally plays. ie. If on your card Tremor is super bright: It's just THAT card. Most everyone else has to turn gamma up to see in Tremor so making your maps 'dark' on yourcard means it's likely going to be pitch black (and thus unplayible) to anyone else.

4) Clip brushes are your friends. Learn to use them in the right spots.

5) Eye candy is nice....modelling the statue of liberty in the center of the most active route is a bad idea. Beautiful maps are nice but suck heavily if fps dies. Simple maps look boring but play like glass.

6) Gimmicks are a minority in priority. ie. Traps, special effects, wierd rooms, easter eggs, gags, disco rooms all should be a minimum and memorible rather than plentiful and down right annoying.

7) Lighting. Read the tutorials. Practice. Read again and ask questions. Lighting can make or break a map.
n game name: Xiane

Squall503

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2006, 04:04:23 am »
alright awsome thanks

Karvajalka

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2006, 08:36:17 am »
Quote from: "DarkRogue"
In general your early works won't be good and for the love of god never release your very first playible map.

Hmm....I would say release it, because then people can tell what things he needs to improve and what's wrong. If he just does everything without asking or showing his work, there might be some major flaws in the maps.
SatGNU <3

Squall503

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2006, 09:03:49 pm »
i think i like thoes ideas i think im gonna try to putone out soon idk how soon tho

Mirsha

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2006, 11:26:25 pm »
Quote from: "DarkRogue"
1) Your first map will be crap. Hell likely your second, third, fourth, fifth...and so on if you're like me will be crap ;) In general your early works won't be good and for the love of god never release your very first playible map, if you have no experience mapping the playability is limited to the fact that people can spawn not any thought on gameplay.

I spent a couple of weeks pissing about learning how to do a map and I kept thinking along the lines of should I send it to people to have a poke at. After I discoverd how to artificaly advance the stages so I could run through with advanced aliens and humans I was forced to write the whole map off, as many of the corridors were too small for tyrants to fit through and trying to change every doorway/coridor in my map caused some horrible problems.

Quote

2) Avoid CSG subtract at first. If cutting a square hole out of a square solid wall then go for it. However cutting a multi surface area at wierd angles leads to more headaches at compile time than building brushes from scratch. Get into the habit of building regardless and you'll never miss CSG subtract.

Showing my inexperience again, but I've found when building stuff with edges at an angle it's much, much easier to cut a solid block and a small block beside it with trimmed edges then CSG merge them back into one brush for the final form. It's a lot less painfull than trying to buid one complicated brush.
Quote

4) Clip brushes are your friends. Learn to use them in the right spots.

Drecht wall walking eaily shows you where you need to use clip brushes. If you view changes a lot then it's time to paste off that area with a clip brush. One thing I don't know is wheter it's possible to place structures beyond a clip wall if you use a thin clip brush which is why I should really only use solid clip brushes to completely wall off the areas to avoid the sort of early problem that was present in Transit.
Quote

7) Lighting. Read the tutorials. Practice. Read again and ask questions. Lighting can make or break a map.

I've not actually seen any good tutorial on lighting, I've had to struggle along with the concept by myself by just fucking about with things horribly. The main problem I have comes from only using light sources which give off a nice area effect now I'm happy with turning the brightness right down and using more to gently illuminate an area but I still run into problems with the light not proceeding as far as I would like creating dark areas. Sometime it's advangeous for the aliens to hide in but sometimes you want a nicely lit area that aliens can't hide in as much. I guess I need to piss about with teh lighting surface shader a bit more as I saw a tutorial somewhere that suggested usign a thing nodraw brush set as a light source to provide that sense of continious illlumination.

DarkRogue

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2006, 11:43:42 pm »
Quote from: "Mirsha"
Quote from: "DarkRogue"
1) Your first map will be crap. Hell likely your second, third, fourth, fifth...and so on if you're like me will be crap ;) In general your early works won't be good and for the love of god never release your very first playible map, if you have no experience mapping the playability is limited to the fact that people can spawn not any thought on gameplay.

I spent a couple of weeks pissing about learning how to do a map and I kept thinking along the lines of should I send it to people to have a poke at. After I discoverd how to artificaly advance the stages so I could run through with advanced aliens and humans I was forced to write the whole map off, as many of the corridors were too small for tyrants to fit through and trying to change every doorway/coridor in my map caused some horrible problems.

Quote

2) Avoid CSG subtract at first. If cutting a square hole out of a square solid wall then go for it. However cutting a multi surface area at wierd angles leads to more headaches at compile time than building brushes from scratch. Get into the habit of building regardless and you'll never miss CSG subtract.

Showing my inexperience again, but I've found when building stuff with edges at an angle it's much, much easier to cut a solid block and a small block beside it with trimmed edges then CSG merge them back into one brush for the final form. It's a lot less painfull than trying to buid one complicated brush.
Quote

4) Clip brushes are your friends. Learn to use them in the right spots.

Drecht wall walking eaily shows you where you need to use clip brushes. If you view changes a lot then it's time to paste off that area with a clip brush. One thing I don't know is wheter it's possible to place structures beyond a clip wall if you use a thin clip brush which is why I should really only use solid clip brushes to completely wall off the areas to avoid the sort of early problem that was present in Transit.
Quote

7) Lighting. Read the tutorials. Practice. Read again and ask questions. Lighting can make or break a map.

I've not actually seen any good tutorial on lighting, I've had to struggle along with the concept by myself by just fucking about with things horribly. The main problem I have comes from only using light sources which give off a nice area effect now I'm happy with turning the brightness right down and using more to gently illuminate an area but I still run into problems with the light not proceeding as far as I would like creating dark areas. Sometime it's advangeous for the aliens to hide in but sometimes you want a nicely lit area that aliens can't hide in as much. I guess I need to piss about with teh lighting surface shader a bit more as I saw a tutorial somewhere that suggested usign a thing nodraw brush set as a light source to provide that sense of continious illlumination.


1) Yeah that happens, once one gets use to the sizing issues you then have to tackle realistic vs playible. Take for example g3tremb1, the corridors are actually larger than the original gloom maps corridors however compared to the wide open corridors of again Tremor they feel cramped...however when you think about it, how many buildings realistically can you park a bus inside one of its corridors?

Mueseum maybe....

2) It can work out however cutting at wierd/multiple angles CAN lead to some really wierd cuts and/or results that bite mappers in the ass at compile time. If CSG subtract is working for you, then the more power to ya ;)

4) It is possible to a small degree. Look at transit, there's a bug that allows building in the cage under the train, such is an example of thin clip brushes being abused.

7) Thing to remember is darkness does nothing to help aliens in Trem. Mostly for the following reasons:

a) Gamma isn't locked so most turn theirs up especially on...dun dun dun...Tremor!

b) Models tend to glow slightly so even in darkness dretches stand out like a sore thumb.
n game name: Xiane

Mirsha

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2006, 04:10:37 am »
Quote from: "DarkRogue"

I just realised we share the same reg date in different years. And you still kick my ass on AKKA.

DarkRogue

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2006, 07:17:03 am »
heh actually I just couldn't remember my original accounts pssword and my email changed. Being too lazy to contact the forums admins I just started a new account under my old Q2 alias.

Check the reg date for 'Xiane' and you'll likely find a more accurate assessment of how long I've fiddled with trem ;)
n game name: Xiane

Lava Croft

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2006, 01:41:27 pm »
Dont listen to these people, just make one big brush and use CSG Substract to carve your map out of it. Good luck!

Stof

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2006, 11:48:29 pm »
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Dont listen to these people, just make one big brush and use CSG Substract to carve your map out of it. Good luck!

It would be a good advice if the CSG substract wasn't so badly done in GTKRadiant :) Say, something like Unreal Ed for example

PS : don't forget to place some kind of :sarcastic: smiley next time. I can assure you some people will believe what you say like that !
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Lava Croft

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2006, 02:38:36 pm »
Hehe Stof, but there is no universal sarcasm smiley known to me;)

Thorn

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 02:47:19 pm »
try the sarcasm button eg

[sarcasm]omg CSG ROCKS[/sarcasm]

Lava Croft

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Can some one give me some good mapping advise?
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 03:10:51 pm »
Nah, that looks dumb.