Tremulous to use a better graphic engine...

[Drag222]

Yeah I know it's something that has already been posted ...
But I just want to say that you don't need to use "Xreal" or crappy thing like that cause hum yeaah open Source is going forward  and is getting better but ... it's never has nice has comercial games !

Hopefully we're now in 2009 and Id Tech will soon  make their next quakecon and they will introduce more closely their Id Tech 5 with the game Rage ...
And if i'm not wrong they released Id Tech 3 as opensource more or less at the same time as they released Id Tech 4
So I think we're getting closer to the Id Tech 4 to be opensource !

And I have to say that i'm sad that almost no opensource game has been able to equal a commercial game ... but now since there will be Id Tech 4 I think  you guys should realy think of it and start first by REMAKING the models has high polys to be able to make them look good (plus i think Id tech 4 has the ability to make things look glowing wich is perfect for aliens)

Also the textures has of course to be remade ... now you will be able to use bump mapping and all those stuff !


Erm yeaah I know tremulous developpement is stuck... I haven't even been able to play it as 1440*900 ...

So I think the developper who are still working on the project since they aren't much should turn themself to the comunity and make it a comunity project but i mean yeah there's a forum about modelling and stuff but you know you can do great stuff with PHP
like a model management app so that people can make their own models and show it etc ...
wel maybe that's useless I don't know but anyway there's something to do cause right now Tremulous just look like we're back in 90's


wouldn't it look better this way


picture from Prey wich uses Id Tech 4


I guess it won't be to hard to port tremulous from id tech 3 to 4

And to those who will say "We like tremulous cause it's working on crappy computers" erm yeaah you know if your computer has 10 years it's time to buy a new one ... you like for 700€ you can get a realy good one
And anyway who said the uggly tremulous would disappear ? it can still be updated at the same time as nice tremulous -- about gameplay i mean.


You know tremulous had great gameplay but since the initial developpers disappeared now it's going nowhere ...

another thing I wanna show you is Natural Selection 2
www.naturalselection2.com

since it was the same kind of game that tremulous but still different.


You can see that those developpers have made their own engine and wel their goal isn't the same, it will be sold for 15€

but i just show that to show that tremulous could look as nice as this =)
wel maybe not as nice but it could be nice =)

So go modellers !!! Id Tech 4 will surely be soon open source so go and make an HD Tyran just like this HD onnos in the Natural Selection video
 

[gimhael]

For me it's not so much "I want tremulous to work on crappy computers", but more "I want tremulous to stay compatible, so I can continue to play with the people I know". Switching to an other engine will break compatibility big time.

Even Xreal, which is based on the same Q3 engine needs a different map format if you want to use any of the eye-candy, so when you play an Xreal map you'll lock out everybody who is still stuck with "uggly-trem".

[MitSugna]

So you did not hear the news; ZeniMax Media Acquired id Software
Do you still think we are close to gpl'ed tech4?

[Drag222]

For me it's not so much "I want tremulous to work on crappy computers", but more "I want tremulous to stay compatible, so I can continue to play with the people I know". Switching to an other engine will break compatibility big time.

Even Xreal, which is based on the same Q3 engine needs a different map format if you want to use any of the eye-candy, so when you play an Xreal map you'll lock out everybody who is still stuck with "uggly-trem".

Yup stay on uggly-trem then

So you did not hear the news; ZeniMax Media Acquired id Software
Do you still think we are close to gpl'ed tech4?

And then? it's still john carmack's engine he does what he wants with it.

[Thorn]

Your statements are *Completely* invalid. XreaL can do everything and more that tech4 can on the renderer side, at a much higher and stable framerate. The only issue with XreaL is that there are no decent artists, because people like you spread such utter bollocks.

[Amanieu]

So you did not hear the news; ZeniMax Media Acquired id Software
Do you still think we are close to gpl'ed tech4?

And then? it's still john carmack's engine he does what he wants with it.

No it's not. That was the whole point of them buying id. It's ZeniMax's engine now.

[Eltran]

Easy to compare a commercial engine to an opensource one eh ?

I guess it won't be to hard to port tremulous from id tech 3 to 4

Then do it so. I can't wait to see that, you just say it's not hard to do it.

[amz181]

Im not going to lie. I would adore to see a tremulous on a new engine with updated graphics. But the trem devs are not a professional dev team, none of them are payed, they will not put endless work into making a new trem on a new engine for nothing.

Unless of course, they somehow manage to secure funding

[Drag222]

Your statements are *Completely* invalid. XreaL can do everything and more that tech4 can on the renderer side, at a much higher and stable framerate. The only issue with XreaL is that there are no decent artists, because people like you spread such utter bollocks.

I Agree it can do lots of things ... but open your eyes dude ! not at "higher and stable framerate" cause it's not optimized yet !
OverDose is nicer and wel optimized but not out yet... see http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose/news.php

So you did not hear the news; ZeniMax Media Acquired id Software
Do you still think we are close to gpl'ed tech4?

And then? it's still john carmack's engine he does what he wants with it.

No it's not. That was the whole point of them buying id. It's ZeniMax's engine now.

To be true I'm not sure.
And in fact noone is sure. cause they didn't speak about it ...
Or they did and I didn't know so give me a link please

Easy to compare a commercial engine to an opensource one eh ?

I guess it won't be to hard to port tremulous from id tech 3 to 4

Then do it so. I can't wait to see that, you just say it's not hard to do it.

Erm ... I ment you know ... Of course I can't i'm not a coder ...  but I didn't mean not hard i ment not too hard :O cause it's overall about the physic part of the code ... i think it would mostly be copy and paste no?
anyway it's true the hardest part would be to change models and maps ...
But DAMN don't you guys want tremulous to look like Quake 4? :O

Im not going to lie. I would adore to see a tremulous on a new engine with updated graphics. But the trem devs are not a professional dev team, none of them are payed, they will not put endless work into making a new trem on a new engine for nothing.

Unless of course, they somehow manage to secure funding

Yeah that's the big point ... there are maybe  2 or 3 developper who works from time to time ... but I understand people have a life. that's why I think the comunity should be working on the project =) You know i think of an game engine called Infinity, and almost all it's models are made by the comunity so that's possible.

[Thorn]

I Agree it can do lots of things ... but open your eyes dude ! not at "higher and stable framerate" cause it's not optimized yet !
OverDose is nicer and wel optimized but not out yet... see http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose/news.php

You should probably try to get a clue what you're talking first. XreaL performs at a much higher framerate than idtech4, and is about as optimised as it can get.

OverDose hasn't released shit yet, and it's also commercial. You can't say bollocks about it being optimised because you haven't even seen anything other than screenshots.

Erm ... I ment you know ... Of course I can't i'm not a coder ...  but I didn't mean not hard i ment not too hard :O cause it's overall about the physic part of the code ... i think it would mostly be copy and paste no?
anyway it's true the hardest part would be to change models and maps ...
But DAMN don't you guys want tremulous to look like Quake 4? :O

Quake4 is as dated as quake3 now, using old rendering techniques that just aren't efficient anymore. The programmer from XreaL was offered a job at Epic  (Unreal3 engine, Gears of War etc) and declined. Even THEY took such an interest into XreaL.

Really, you are blabbing on about shit you have no clue about. The Tremulous source code is already in XreaL ready to be compiled. The issue with XreaL is the same as _any_ opensource project - the lack of decent artists. Tremulous using a commercial engine will give NO benefits because it will still be stuck in the same position as everyone else. It will only hinder itself by using further dated tech.

[{7}wrath]

Can we just lock this fucking thread? Drag obviously has no idea what he is talking aboot, and people are already working on porting to Xreal.

[MitSugna]

I Agree it can do lots of things ... but open your eyes dude ! not at "higher and stable framerate" cause it's not optimized yet !
OverDose is nicer and wel optimized but not out yet... see http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose/news.php

You should probably try to get a clue what you're talking first. XreaL performs at a much higher framerate than idtech4, and is about as optimised as it can get.

OverDose hasn't released shit yet, and it's also commercial. You can't say bollocks about it being optimised because you haven't even seen anything other than screenshots.

AFAIK overdose is based on gpl'ed quake 2. But I heard that they want to evade gpl by changing the code to c++. Although this a rumor, I am pretty sure that they are not willing to release the source code.
Anyway, the best option is xreal, others are based on tech 1/2/4; porting would be more difficult

[Drag222]

I Agree it can do lots of things ... but open your eyes dude ! not at "higher and stable framerate" cause it's not optimized yet !
OverDose is nicer and wel optimized but not out yet... see http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose/news.php

You should probably try to get a clue what you're talking first. XreaL performs at a much higher framerate than idtech4, and is about as optimised as it can get.

OverDose hasn't released shit yet, and it's also commercial. You can't say bollocks about it being optimised because you haven't even seen anything other than screenshots.

Erm ... I ment you know ... Of course I can't i'm not a coder ...  but I didn't mean not hard i ment not too hard :O cause it's overall about the physic part of the code ... i think it would mostly be copy and paste no?
anyway it's true the hardest part would be to change models and maps ...
But DAMN don't you guys want tremulous to look like Quake 4? :O

Quake4 is as dated as quake3 now, using old rendering techniques that just aren't efficient anymore. The programmer from XreaL was offered a job at Epic  (Unreal3 engine, Gears of War etc) and declined. Even THEY took such an interest into XreaL.

Really, you are blabbing on about shit you have no clue about. The Tremulous source code is already in XreaL ready to be compiled. The issue with XreaL is the same as _any_ opensource project - the lack of decent artists. Tremulous using a commercial engine will give NO benefits because it will still be stuck in the same position as everyone else. It will only hinder itself by using further dated tech.

I installed Xreal on my computer and I first though it was realy nice but the framerate i had was realy bad !
At the moment this engine looks too messy. I didn't say the guy was a bad programmer i just said it's not wel optimized ...

You just seem like an Xreal fanboy...
now I'm not blaming Xreal at all i've seen some realy cool pic in the forum and i often check the site to get some news too ...

But wel id tech 4 might be old already but it's better than id tech 3 and on my computer it runs better than Xreal ...
+you know it might be old but it's still licensed to be used in upcomming games like wel wolfenstein uses id tech 4
wel rendering techiniques hmmmm Id tech 4 is wel known for it's bump mapping effect and yeaah also it's problem with uggly shadows but erm that can always be changed if it gets opensource ...

OverDose isn't going commercial anymore because of licence problems ! it's true that I never tested it +1 for you.

I'm happy for the guy of Xreal, he's dumb, he should have agreed that proposition after all UE3 is the most licensed engine ...

Can we just lock this fucking thread? Drag obviously has no idea what he is talking aboot, and people are already working on porting to Xreal.

What you doing here?  I think I have a clue of what I'm talking about ... I'm closely following lots of open source projects.

[David]

No it's not. That was the whole point of them buying id. It's ZeniMax's engine now.

To be true I'm not sure.
And in fact noone is sure. cause they didn't speak about it ...
Or they did and I didn't know so give me a link please

Why would they have to say it?  id Software owns it, and now they own id, ergo they own everything id owned.
Carmack used to own part of id Software, and so used to own part of the engine.  Not any more.  Had he refused to sell his part then that *would* have been reported.

i think it would mostly be copy and paste no?

I'd doubt there is a single this that could be reused.  You want to make a new game, so go make a new game.
Tremulous will be ported to idTech4 the same way Gloom was ported to idTech3, with a new team making a new game that's kinda a bit similar but otherwise unrelated.  (The current team has expressed no desire to start a new major project)

[Asvarox]

I installed Xreal on my computer and I first though it was realy nice but the framerate i had was realy bad !

As far I know "demo" release is quite a bit really outdated. I don't know if you used it though.

[Odin]

IdTech4 runs better on your machine because the games that use it don't have textures that exceed 1024 pixels long/wide. It also uses depth-fail shadows which is the fastest form of realtime shadowing.

[Eltran]

I'm happy for the guy of Xreal, he's dumb, he should have agreed that proposition after all UE3 is the most licensed engine ...

You should thank Tr3B for having declined that proposition, because he is still with us, making an awesome work and still for free.
You just want to stick on commercial engines, if you want to see Tremulous on an engine like this, then just wait the release of this shit, remake tremulous inside yeah you have the source code it wouldn't be so hard, then let's see if there would be more people playing tremulous in this new engine rather than in XreaL.

You are just afraid the fact that opensource beats commercial.

[Thorn]

I installed Xreal on my computer and I first though it was realy nice but the framerate i had was realy bad !
At the moment this engine looks too messy. I didn't say the guy was a bad programmer i just said it's not wel optimized ...

You most likely installed the prealpha release, which is what... early 2008? It's far outdated especially considering the rate at which new changes affect XreaL.
I disagree with saying the engine looks messy - everything boils down to poor art quality. You couldn't whine about the engine being messy without taking an indepth look at the source, and even then you will see it's very well written. For an opensource project, Tr3b is one of(if not *the*) most professional programmers around, especially on the renderer side of things.

You just seem like an Xreal fanboy...
now I'm not blaming Xreal at all i've seen some realy cool pic in the forum and i often check the site to get some news too ...

Fanboy is hardly the word - I'm stating my strong opinions which disagree with your misbased assumptions.

But wel id tech 4 might be old already but it's better than id tech 3 and on my computer it runs better than Xreal ...
+you know it might be old but it's still licensed to be used in upcomming games like wel wolfenstein uses id tech 4
wel rendering techiniques hmmmm Id tech 4 is wel known for it's bump mapping effect and yeaah also it's problem with uggly shadows but erm that can always be changed if it gets opensource ...

You just gave a clear example of your lack of knowledge on the subject. You probably booted xreal, put HDR on, ran it at some silly screenmode with relief mapping on. tech4 doesn't even *have* these features. If you run XreaL on the same settings you would run doom3 at, you would see that XreaL can clearly outperform idtech4.
Normalmapping was just one of the things that id decided to cache in on and make the best of with doom3. It's taken for granted these days that all modern engines have this feature or one of its derivatives.

I'm happy for the guy of Xreal, he's dumb, he should have agreed that proposition after all UE3 is the most licensed engine ...

Insulting someone's intelligence because they took another path in life is not for you to say and also validates that you are completely naive. So far not one of your original points have had a solid foundation, try again next year i guess.

[phazmatis]

It seems very unlikely that Id Tech 4 will ever be released as open-source. So the only options are open-source... And the only Quake engine being updated is XReal.

Of course, I wouldn't know. Compiling open-source projects is usually a nightmare and a half.

[Archangel]

It seems very unlikely that Id Tech 4 will ever be released as open-source

it will be in a few years. Id releases all their engines, GPL-ized, after 5 years (IIRC)

[phazmatis]

It seems very unlikely that Id Tech 4 will ever be released as open-source

it will be in a few years. Id releases all their engines, GPL-ized, after 5 years (IIRC)

Sure, but "Id" doesn't own their engine anymore...