Hello, most of you probably know me under some alias or another, however the in-game name that I always go back to is "The Medistation" (whether you love me or hate me, please hear me out.. or at least the irc chat) Most of the post will be tl;dr so I'll abridge my thoughts on 1.2 here, and post an irc convo for those who wish to read it (I urge devs, and server owners to read it) Warning, the irc chat is very long, I apologize to the mod's, however I want to keep the irc chat as is.
To put it simply, I believe that Tremulous 1.2 should be released as soon as possible, some of the changes aren't great, some are good. The developers need REAL feedback, not the oh, so common flamewar threads that have been going back, and I think that actually releasing it (by that I mean some time this century) will do that. Whether it's going to be hated, or loved it needs a release, and then a release (within a few months would be ideal) to fix the problems that become apparent (lets face it, the tremdev server has helped all it can for the moment) this release should be something like 1.2.1, fixing exploits, and making it more tolerable in general. I think that server owners for example Ozzy should run 1.2, if only to create feedback for the next release (I know Ozzy, you hate it... But it's for the better of Tremulous.)
User Z: Here's my idea for the system. It think it'd be a good idea if...
User 4: Hell no! That's the stupidest idea in the world!
User 5: Fail
User 6: Sad Smiley :/ Sad((((((((((((((((((
User 7: lol ur a moron
And also, since this rule is often forgotten when the topic of 1.2 is at hand, I dicided to remind you NOT to do this.
This of course barely touches on what I believe 1.2 is (not to mention the other dudes in the irc chat), and should be so I'll post the irc convo below (yeah it's long):
- 22:20 -
SporkiPod: savvy?
PlagueBringer: well tamaru_ had the box issue.
PlagueBringer: i'm not sure if he got underground much, though, before he had to leave.
The_Medistation: o hai spork
SporkiPod: true
SporkiPod: hai medi
- 22:26 -
The_Medistation: =DD
The_Medistation: I really don't like how people complain about 1.2 so much =o
SporkiPod: yeah
The_Medistation: It's annoying for several reasons. I understand their points, for example many of the changes have no obvious reason behind them
SporkiPod: true
SporkiPod: but nothing really bad IMHO
The_Medistation: However, trem desperately needs an update
The_Medistation: There is one thing
SporkiPod: true that
The_Medistation: Basi's grab... How come I can grab at a distance, and not slash
The_Medistation: It's odd-- not logical and weird
SporkiPod: makes sense to me
SporkiPod: let's you grab them so you can move in for the kill
The_Medistation: I'd think that if I could hold something, I'd be able to slash it
SporkiPod: although both the same would make more sense
SporkiPod: yeah
The_Medistation: From a gameplay perspective it makes sense, however logically it's stupid
The_Medistation: Can't they be the same length-- as in average them out?
SporkiPod: kinda
SporkiPod: maybe
PlagueBringer: don't even talk about logic. i'll ask you for the theory behind telenodes. >_>
The_Medistation: I'd love that
SporkiPod: lol
The_Medistation: ohgod
PlagueBringer: What is it, 96units grab and 64units attack?
PlagueBringer: It'd be nice if it was, like, 78 both.
PlagueBringer: ish.
PlagueBringer: i didn't do the math.
The_Medistation: lol.
SporkiPod: basic teleportation, duh
SporkiPod: lol
PlagueBringer: 80, duh.
* PlagueBringer facepalms because he can't do basic math.
SporkiPod: lol
- 22:31 -
The_Medistation: I'm pretty sure they just switched the two values from trem 1.1
SporkiPod: nun
SporkiPod: nub
The_Medistation: But I could be wrong
SporkiPod: yeah
PlagueBringer: yeah, that's what they did.
SporkiPod: they did
The_Medistation: It's kinda stupid
PlagueBringer: we bitch because we like 1.1 gameplay and 1.2 completely changes that.
SporkiPod: so?
SporkiPod: something different isn't inherently bad
The_Medistation: I understand that-- I welcome the changes that make it more newbie friendly-- however this takes an edge away from being a good player (ozzy made this point in the forums) So I really think they need to work on benefiting people who practice too.
PlagueBringer: so we think that it shouldn't have taken 4+(?) years to come up with a bunch of arbitrary values that do not combat the main balance issues at hand.
PlagueBringer: & what he said ^
PlagueBringer: xD
The_Medistation: I welcome many of the changes.
The_Medistation: Others still need to be thought about some more.
SporkiPod: yeah, how long it took was stupid
SporkiPod: maybe
The_Medistation: Even so, I want trem 1.2 to come out, so that they can get REAL feedback for something like Trem 1.2.1
SporkiPod: heck yeah
The_Medistation: Rather than a bunch of flamewars
SporkiPod: I think the number one reason for all this drama is too many sheeple
SporkiPod: plain and simple
PlagueBringer: define that. :\
SporkiPod: ?
SporkiPod: google it
console:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_technologyThe_Medistation: Also, one reason why many of the good players (I understand this feeling) don't like it is because many exploits from 1.1 are gone.
The_Medistation: Ex. Goon pounce range
SporkiPod: haha
The_Medistation: But man, when 1.2 comes out cg_unlagged goes to 0 for me most of the time, if only to train my aim
- 22:37 -
SporkiPod: yeah
SporkiPod: why?
SporkiPod: it makes you lead, not aim
The_Medistation: ... Leading helps with prediction skills, which in turn will help your aim
PlagueBringer: ah, sheeple.
SporkiPod: yeah
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PlagueBringer: 1.1 vets are pissed because we got used to Tremulous and we conquered the learning curve.
The_Medistation: Yes, this is correct
SporkiPod: I swear, 90% of the trem.net forums are sheepl
SporkiPod: exactly
The_Medistation: The main reason why I love this game is because it's hard to master though
The_Medistation: It adds so much replay value
PlagueBringer: exactly!
SporkiPod: you are used to it, so you don't want to learn something new
SporkiPod: because you might not be the best anymore
PlagueBringer: mmhm.
SporkiPod: that's my interpretation of alot of it
PlagueBringer: that's the psychology behind it.
The_Medistation: 1.2.1 needs to work on making it difficult to master, while keeping it newbie friendly-- 1.2 needs to get released already so they can stop focusing on doing nothing
PlagueBringer: is it just me or does the luci seem like a much less offensive weapon now?
PlagueBringer: and the rant is too bloody nerfed.
PlagueBringer: s3 aliens now brings nothing good. D:
PlagueBringer: ARGUABLY
The_Medistation: Luci is a chasing weapon now
SporkiPod: see, this is what the discussion should look like on trem.net
The_Medistation: No, rant rushing is cool imo
The_Medistation: No, we aren't flaming eachother
The_Medistation: That's the difference
PlagueBringer: sporki go fail at life i hate you.
PlagueBringer: <3
The_Medistation: NO U
The_Medistation: FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME
SporkiPod: yeah
SporkiPod: rant is just a bit too nerfed IMHO
SporkiPod: and luci is strengthened at the same time
SporkiPod: lol
SporkiPod: awe
SporkiPod: I was enjoying the logical calm discussion
The_Medistation: No, I think the luci needed to get stronger-- at the same time charge time is MUCH longer
PlagueBringer: luci's strengthened but charge up time makes me not want to leave base for fear of being dretched. :\
PlagueBringer: to be fair, secondary kills dretches 1 hit.
- 22:42 -
The_Medistation: It also makes it decent for chasing, however not for basekilling-- which is what we call a gameplay change (lol the start of flamwars)
PlagueBringer: haha yeah.
SporkiPod: true ish
PlagueBringer: i always prefered pulse for base killing, just because i was better at killing aliens on the way with it.
The_Medistation: Luci just changed, it didn't really get BETTER
PlagueBringer: it got different.
PlagueBringer: it'll be better in the hands of some and worse in the hands of others.
SporkiPod: $5 sez that is ozzy hasn't started whining, this flamewar wouldn't have happened
The_Medistation: Oh man, the new pulse is awesome-- more newbie friendly, and the ammo bottleneck puts a challenge in for good players
PlagueBringer: i hate what they did to the chaingun.
SporkiPod: I don't think I've tried it lately
The_Medistation: What's new with the chaingun?
The_Medistation: I forgot
PlagueBringer: slower repeat, i think.
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SporkiPod: I played aliens last time I was on
The_Medistation: I love the new goon and rant
PlagueBringer: no, less damage, less spread.
SporkiPod: ah
PlagueBringer: so, theoretically, at range, it'll do the same to large targets.
The_Medistation: I almost never rant in 1.1, simply because it's so overpowered
SporkiPod: well a group of chainsuits was a bit overpowered in. 1.1
SporkiPod: yeah
PlagueBringer: but close up when all the shots are hittin anyway you can really feel the 6 -> 5 damage reduction.
SporkiPod: I just rant when I'm low on evos
The_Medistation: Spork makes a good point, it makes it necessary to work in teams with chains though
SporkiPod: max out, suicide, adv goo
The_Medistation: lol.
SporkiPod:
PlagueBringer: i solo chained all the time humans s2. yet, for some reason, i've got issues with taking down a mara in 1.2
PlagueBringer: :\
The_Medistation: I only rant when I'm scrimming, or really pissed
PlagueBringer: haha
SporkiPod: haha
PlagueBringer: i like how the rant charge hits multiple times.
SporkiPod: you know what I hate I. 1.1?
The_Medistation: Which is one reason why I want 1.2-- I'll actually like the rant because it wont literally be a TYRANT
SporkiPod: how useless basi is against groups
PlagueBringer: ew basi.
SporkiPod: it's great 1v1, but that hummie brings a friend, ur screwed
The_Medistation: No, if you're a good basi you can attack the weak spot for massive damage.
PlagueBringer: basi is going to be relatively useless come hs2+3 simply due to it's playing style.
The_Medistation: As in dracone good
SporkiPod: basi is fun I've found lately
The_Medistation: Or how Essential risk used to be
PlagueBringer: mmhm
The_Medistation: Oh man, basi is so fun
- 22:47 -
SporkiPod: well yeah medi, obviously pro basis want have trouble
SporkiPod: , but for avergae
The_Medistation: One thing I hate is how annoying the basi is in 1.2-- in 1.1 only good players annoyed me now anyone can
SporkiPod: lol
PlagueBringer: i'm not liking how 1.2 is more reliant on teamwork.
PlagueBringer: don't get me wrong, i love it, but it just doesn't happen in pubs.
SporkiPod: that's supposed to be central to the game though
SporkiPod: it might force it more
PlagueBringer: eh, there's only so much you can do to force teamwork.
The_Medistation: Both points are valid-- the developers need to consider it.
SporkiPod: so you can't go all lone ranger. ish
PlagueBringer: but the problem is i find it incredibly difficult to organize people.
PlagueBringer: voip might help.
The_Medistation: Yeah
SporkiPod: yeah
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The_Medistation: But from what I've seen voip has crap quality in trem
SporkiPod: although screaming rush seems to get most of them to notice
SporkiPod: haha
SporkiPod: mumble is good
SporkiPod: far better than ts
The_Medistation: Can't we get it more mumble like-- shit spork don't beat me to things
PlagueBringer: i find skype's got the best quality, but of course, that's not designed for gamers.
SporkiPod: lol
SporkiPod: medi
SporkiPod: I'm typing on a touch screen
SporkiPod: you should be able to typ much faster than me
PlagueBringer: srs
SporkiPod:
The_Medistation: Well, my thoughts take time because I think about so many amazingly awesome things
SporkiPod: rofl
The_Medistation: Yes.
SporkiPod: I think faster than I type or talk half he time
The_Medistation: Also, 1.2 needs to make basenades more colorful.
SporkiPod: it's annoing
SporkiPod: lol
The_Medistation: Nothing is more fun then doing a basenade when there's 3 rants rushing
SporkiPod: I think 1.2 should have a combat spork
The_Medistation: lo.
- 22:52 -
PlagueBringer: a lot of changes seem incredibly arbitrary and pointless.
PlagueBringer: like repeaters?
SporkiPod: lol
PlagueBringer: that's an incredibly large gameplay change.
SporkiPod: those are great for moves
The_Medistation: Eh-- I like it personally, but yes it is a flamewar starter like plague said
SporkiPod: allthough the bp thing is
SporkiPod: kinda weird
PlagueBringer: i like it, but it's so different from 1.1
SporkiPod: yeah
PlagueBringer: the whole issue is it's so damn different.
PlagueBringer: and it's not even that we (the opposers) are any worse.
SporkiPod: I think differe t is great
PlagueBringer: hell, i actually have a bit of fun.
PlagueBringer: but it is too different from 1.1, and it is not at all what we expected from so many years of "development"
SporkiPod: I don't understand how people can say they've been to dev games and say that didn't have fun
The_Medistation: It prevents full moves-- which I like-- I mean Repeaters in 1.1 may as well be dubbed "Reactors whore" it gets everything the reactor does until the thing dies
The_Medistation: I do.
PlagueBringer: haha
SporkiPod: yeah, it maybe should have been 2 relases by now
PlagueBringer: mmhm.
The_Medistation: There's changes, people have adapted to trem, and they don't want to have to re-learn it, after all it does have a learning curve
SporkiPod: yeah, well, that's part of the fun
PlagueBringer: the main balance issues (namely, tyrant & s1 goon) were not combated properly.
SporkiPod: notice how half the people who become pro quit?
The_Medistation: Yes, however dretch is weaker, which makes it harder to get goon
SporkiPod: yeah
SporkiPod:
PlagueBringer: haha. that's such a bad way to deal with that.
The_Medistation: I don't think that was the reasoning behind it
The_Medistation: But it works, in its own way.
PlagueBringer: no, but it might as well have been.
PlagueBringer: There seems to be a lack of reason behind a lot of the changes.
SporkiPod: maybe
- 22:57 -
SporkiPod: I'm think if they hadn't labeled these as "balance changes" it wiuldve been better
PlagueBringer: mebbe
The_Medistation: I think the biggest reason overlooked is, when most people start playing trem, their killeath ratio looks something like 3:213 I think that many of these changes are aimed at making it more like 6:43 or whatever
SporkiPod: yeah
PlagueBringer: hahaha
SporkiPod: lol
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PlagueBringer: well, 1.2 will be released, i will play.
SporkiPod: /me is really enjoying this discussion, but also wants to read his book...
SporkiPod: me too
PlagueBringer: i will play it to death.
The_Medistation: What book =o
PlagueBringer: twilight
SporkiPod: hopefully I end up being a bit more pro too lol
The_Medistation: Twilight's a good comedy man
your_face: oh, whats happened while i was gone
The_Medistation: I love that shit
SporkiPod: book=green by Ted Delmer
SporkiPod: dekker
The_Medistation: We were discussing trem 1.2
your_face: good
SporkiPod: without flaming
The_Medistation: It wasn't a flamewar either
your_face: what
your_face: medi, you support or oppose
SporkiPod: you should try it face
The_Medistation: Do you think this is tremnet?
The_Medistation: Face-- I support 1.2, only so they can get REAL feedback for 1.2.1
your_face: what feedback so far hasnt been real
The_Medistation: As in, feedback that isn't repeating the same shit and going: FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME
SporkiPod: exactly
your_face: lies. theres some good arguments on trem.net
The_Medistation: I know, but it has all been said before.
SporkiPod: with the occasional whining thrown In for good measur
The_Medistation: OR, rather most of it
The_Medistation: with an occasional new point thrown in
The_Medistation: "omg it sucks because i cant exploit pounce range"
- 23:02 -
your_face: what whining?
your_face: show me
SporkiPod: can't
SporkiPod: on iPod
SporkiPod: otherwise I would
The_Medistation: I just quoted everyone in {&}
SporkiPod: lol
SporkiPod: not medis quote
SporkiPod: note
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PlagueBringer[AF: GOOD NIGHT, Y'ALL.
your_face: OMG FORQUE IS ON UNVANQUISHED YYAY
your_face: later PlagueBringer[AF
SporkiPod: someone pastebin our sdiscusion for faes
SporkiPod: night
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The_Medistation: I think that 1.2 should focus on getting released, and 1.2.1 should come maybe a month or two later fixing the things that are obviously messed up.
P: i was trying to but copying is a bitch on mirc for some reason.
P: D:
P: ffs
- P has left the room
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SporkiPod: lol
SporkiPod: half it has dissapeared for me
SporkiPod: dumb client
The_Medistation: I should have it saved
SporkiPod: only shows like last 50 posts
SporkiPod:
SporkiPod: send it to faes
The_Medistation: Crap nvm lemme copy/paste
SporkiPod: or btter yet, maybe even post it on trem.net
SporkiPod: lol
PB[AFK]: do that shit.
PB[AFK]: woah does condump work?
PB[AFK]: nope.
PB[AFK]: >_<
The_Medistation: Something not flamewar related on tremnet, are you trying to get me banned?
PB[AFK]: is there anyway to dump to a txt?
SporkiPod: lol
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- 23:07 -
The_Medistation: Should I post it?
PlagueBringer: do it!
SporkiPod: medi, if ur too chicken, send it to me, I'll do it
The_Medistation: lol.
SporkiPod: foot
SporkiPod: do it
SporkiPod: lol
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Thank you in advance for your time Devs/Server owners/ Other dudes who like to read long boring irc chats.
