1.2 places dev servers at the top by default.

[Paradox]

If I decide to start a 1.2 server of my own, will it be featured? Or is that a special rite given only to special servers that are special?

[SlackerLinux]

Suggestion: try not to give admin to anyone in a clan (keep everything within MG).

this would be bad why should you be excluded because your in a clan. cant people in clans still be fair etc theres no reason for this restriction. also limiting it to MG only is just as bad.

And the picking will be 100% fair.  Everyone who wants to submit a mod can, and then we pick via RNG.  The first has already been chosen as Amanieu mod that destroys your client, and the second as one that breaks out of the VM to overwrite your disk.  Kinda sucks how it turned out, but fairness is way more important than a good user experience right?

Dont forget that mod that can crash servers.... oh wait that's trem 1.1. you should give amanieu a little more respect he has fixed 99pct of the bugs in tremulous and his mods/clients are not that bad infact they are quite good. david most mods give a user experience that usually matches trem or surpasses it with a hell of alotta bugfixes that are not in vanilla trem.

[==Troy==]

actually, not offtopic since people are complaining about how official servers will affect the server list without considering other things that will affect the server list much more dramatically.

The point of the topic is that the dev servers will always stay on the top. Before servers were struggling for names to be on top, now they will struggle to get lowest ping - yes it will change the server list, but it will not affect the dev server hat. The topic is about that issue precisely.

[kevlarman]

And the picking will be 100% fair.  Everyone who wants to submit a mod can, and then we pick via RNG.  The first has already been chosen as Amanieu mod that destroys your client, and the second as one that breaks out of the VM to overwrite your disk.  Kinda sucks how it turned out, but fairness is way more important than a good user experience right?

Dont forget that mod that can crash servers.... oh wait that's trem 1.1. you should give amanieu a little more respect he has fixed 99pct of the bugs in tremulous and his mods/clients are not that bad infact they are quite good. david most mods give a user experience that usually matches trem or surpasses it with a hell of alotta bugfixes that are not in vanilla trem.

amanieu was the one who discovered that bug and wrote the proof of concept, so it is his "mod". (it's already fixed on x86, ppc and x86_64 should be fixed before the release)

[KamikOzzy]

I'm all for having a fair sort by ping. My argument is not "omg AA should be at the top." We didn't add boxes to our name until other servers began doing so, so if we remove them completely from everyone and sort by ping, sweet shit.

That's why it's being ignored as a bigger change than the stickies: Sort by ping = fair, sort by ping but MG's favorite servers up top = not fair.

[Paradox]

That's why it's being ignored as a bigger change than the stickies: Sort by ping = fair, sort by ping but MG's favorite servers up top = not fair.

Exactly.

Now prepare for the MG members to tell you why this is in no way related to MG.

[David]

Because it isn't?

I really fail to see how MG has anything to do with anything anymore.  MG hasn't done *anything* for ages and ages, and may as well be dead IMO.  The only reason it's still around is because people hope that post 1.2 it might start doing stuff again.

So can someone tell me what power MG the evil overlords have?  Or tell me how is the slightest this *would* be related to MG.

* David nominates paradox to be todays evil cabal, and blames all the worlds ill's on him.

[Kaine]

So can someone tell me what power MG the evil overlords have?  Or tell me how is the slightest this *would* be related to MG.

I don't think it's that so much... most of us just resent you because you have two userbars under your name on the forum, whilst we have none.  Making spiteful topics about MG getting stickied servers ingame is just our way of harassing and punishing you for it in a roundabout manner.

[David]

The official servers aren't MG servers.  It just so happens that Khalsa has a server that MG uses that has also been offered for official servers.  Other people are hosting servers too (eg the euro server, and I'd guess anywhere else in the world where they can get a decent server.)

[Lakitu7]

my issue is i dont want "official" 400 ping servers on the top of my server list.

This is something that we simply hadn't thought of, but I agree. Done.

[Ryanw4390]

Official servers scare me like State Sponsored Religion but as long as some good servers get featured it'll work out

[Kaine]

You quote yourself?  How pretentious!

[Dance Commander]

cant we just go back to having whoever had the most 0's in front of their server be at the top of the list?  that seemed pretty democratic to me.

[Repatition]

cant we just go back to having whoever had the most 0's in front of their server be at the top of the list?  that seemed pretty democratic to me.

wat? i cant belive it! i hate those "0000000000000000000oneletter" severs

[khalsa]

cant we just go back to having whoever had the most 0's in front of their server be at the top of the list?  that seemed pretty democratic to me.

Nope

[Repatition]

thx kasla

[Ryanw4390]

Yeah that's my favorite change so far with the servers actually. If we lose the [][][] but gain the official/featured servers that would be worth it.

You quote yourself?  How pretentious!

But but but this guy did it first!

[jal]

The point of the topic is that the dev servers will always stay on the top. Before servers were struggling for names to be on top, now they will struggle to get lowest ping - yes it will change the server list, but it will not affect the dev server hat. The topic is about that issue precisely.

One can't struggle to get the lowest ping. Ping depends on the area the server and the client are. And if it was possible, that'd be a wonderful side effect.

[tuple]

One can't struggle to get the lowest ping. Ping depends on the area the server and the client are. And if it was possible, that'd be a wonderful side effect.

Thats not entirely true.  Ping also depends very heavily on the quality on the network equipment it travels through, and how much network equipment it has to travel through.  So if I put a server in a building that houses an internet POP (which is what I always called them >.> ) my server could have many fewer network devices to travel through before it gets to any one house.  That house's ISP may be crappy, but the ping won't have my crappy ISP to add to it, as it will be plugged in really close to one of the major internet onramps.   ISPs can vary as to how "close" you will be to a POP.  I used speakeasy dsl for quite a while.  My 256K connection had much lower ping (and more reliability) than most home ISPs and I was able to host an 8-10 trem server on it.  Most will tell you it won't work but that ISP guaranteed a single hop to a POP, which means quality will most likely be high, and it was.  Over 12 it went downhill fast, but it was low latency to lots of people.

My thought is that servers on most peoples home connections may have a hard time getting high up in a large percentage of lists because of the added latency.  Servers in data centers near POPs will be higher in more peoples lists and will probably get more traffic and visibility as a result.

[bob0]

Just wait for Paradox to tell you why featured servers are in no way related to him.

[danmal]

my issue is i dont want "official" 400 ping servers on the top of my server list.

This is something that we simply hadn't thought of, but I agree. Done.

Awesome, looks like the Americans are going to be stuck with official dev servers unlike the rest of the world. Let's just hope that they don't add an official dev server down here now.

[SlackerLinux]

my issue is i dont want "official" 400 ping servers on the top of my server list.

This is something that we simply hadn't thought of, but I agree. Done.

Awesome, looks like the Americans are going to be stuck with official dev servers unlike the rest of the world. Let's just hope that they don't add an official dev server down here now.

don't give em ideas damanal :p. anyway thanks for adding the little check with them. still 200 ping can be hard to play tbh id suggest the limit for showing them to be something like 150 or so.

[David]

IMO the limit should be 100 for lagged, and 200 for unlagged.

[danmal]

Problem: Practically every server out there is 'modified' in some way or another

The easiest solution for this problem is for the Trem devs to release bug fixes every time a new critical bug is discovered. I know that GA was forced to change QVMs after months of griefers constantly crashing the server. We now have slightly different gameplay (luckily most of the balance changes have recently been reverted. I can now decon dead structures ) because the Trem devs haven't shown any inclination of making a bug fix release.

Problem: I want Tremulous to be more mod friendly

Then perhaps the best idea would be to write a modding guide or at the very least a modding best practices post. At the moment all the information about modding is very fragmented.

Problem: Tremulous developers created a game, and would like to see newbies playing that game.

Then give the community the tools to allow people to play that game. Please provide bug fix releases.

Problem: During the beta release we need to ensure we are getting full data from populated development servers to help us create the best 1.2 possible.

Fair enough although I have to wonder how many beta servers will actually be up.

Problem: I would like to feature one or two mod servers for the general population per month, so users can see the breadth of what's out there

Are we talking about users or just american users?

Problem: There are too many 'crappy' servers out there that newbies first join and get discouraged from Tremulous after playing there

I'm not too sure what you mean by crappy. As in X crappy or everyone is too skilled for a newbie crappy?

[David]

Problem: Practically every server out there is 'modified' in some way or another

The easiest solution for this problem is for the Trem devs to release bug fixes every time a new critical bug is discovered. I know that GA was forced to change QVMs after months of griefers constantly crashing the server. We now have slightly different gameplay (luckily most of the balance changes have recently been reverted. I can now decon dead structures ) because the Trem devs haven't shown any inclination of making a bug fix release.

They have been releasing those bug fixes, right here: http://svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk/


And I'm sure there will be servers elsewhere if they can be found.  Server's aren't cheap.
And X crappy.

[ape]

If admins are chosen carefully, these official servers will be better than every other server out there right now (including ours), and a bunch of us will come back and play. If they are not, then...

Suggestion: try not to give admin to anyone in a clan (keep everything within MG). Be especially wary of certain people who pretend to be nice and righteous on the forums but abuse in-game.

Overall: cool, I hope these servers are permanent (relatively)!

I completely agree with this sentiment.
If you have "official" servers at the top, staffed with friendly administrators, new players will return repeatedly.
More importantly than that, you will be able to create an abuse-free environment, without having games ruined by griefers, deconners, and aimbotters.

It would seem the most vocal opponents to this are those who would stand to lose the most from this implementation (i.e. if your server is near the top in the default client).

[Plague Bringer]

I completely agree with this sentiment.
If you have "official" servers at the top, staffed with friendly administrators, new players will return repeatedly.
More importantly than that, you will be able to create an abuse-free environment, without having games ruined by griefers, deconners, and aimbotters.

It would seem the most vocal opponents to this are those who would stand to lose the most from this implementation (i.e. if your server is near the top in the default client).

Or people who don't trust the devs to properly and constantly administrate and moderate a server.

[KamikOzzy]

I completely agree with this sentiment.
If you have "official" servers at the top, staffed with friendly administrators, new players will return repeatedly.
More importantly than that, you will be able to create an abuse-free environment, without having games ruined by griefers, deconners, and aimbotters.

It would seem the most vocal opponents to this are those who would stand to lose the most from this implementation (i.e. if your server is near the top in the default client).

Or people who don't trust the devs to properly and constantly administrate and moderate a server.

And I'm both.

Problem is one man's view of abuse is his own. How many times do you want to let the noob move the rc into a shitty spot before you start denybuilding him so that he can't ruin the game for the rest of the players?

"ABUSE! I was just trying to learn to build!!"

[Kaine]

That's why you ban his ip range with the reason: "lern 2 bild newb."  Then he can't bitch at you about abuse.  And if he comes after you on the forums, you have hoards of trolls, oldfags, and dipshit mods at your disposal to condescend the hell out of him 'til he either snaps and is banned as a result, flees in terror never to return, or commandeers Khalsa's account and demands that you bitches listen to what he has to say.

[SlackerLinux]

Problem: Practically every server out there is 'modified' in some way or another

The easiest solution for this problem is for the Trem devs to release bug fixes every time a new critical bug is discovered. I know that GA was forced to change QVMs after months of griefers constantly crashing the server. We now have slightly different gameplay (luckily most of the balance changes have recently been reverted. I can now decon dead structures ) because the Trem devs haven't shown any inclination of making a bug fix release.

They have been releasing those bug fixes, right here: http://svn.icculus.org/tremulous/trunk/


And I'm sure there will be servers elsewhere if they can be found.  Server's aren't cheap.
And X crappy.

thats tremulous SVN danmal means that after each big bug discovered it gets backported/whatevers needed to be compatable and be releases with the bugfix. the way mythtv does it would work they keep trunk current but with each release they make a fixes branch and backport all the bugfixes you could use that fixes branch to create official "bugfix" releases everytime something really big needs fixing. but thats up to the devs how they want to handle their svn and releases i just hope they consider it.