1.2 feedback / suggestions

[The 11th plague of Egypt]

I don't like the new building points queue, it just slows everything down -> camping

I like the renewed alien regen aura, though, it favours teamplay.

btw, I can't find a way to fix my bindings. Wallwalking should be toggled, but until I untoggle and reset it to toggled,
it doesn't work. I mean, as I stop pressing the key, it vanishes.

[Conzul]

Well I'm not ready to play was the true 1.2 if that's how.

So yes, you told me before the fov was a bug (which must come from quake 3 in this case is not it?) But the problem is that I'm used to having the fov "imperfect" of 1.1 .0, and now I can no longer play properly because I was not clear who the enemy is located on the edge of my field of vision.

Too bad Developers gentlemen, I like what you made but you will lose players, I hope that new players come on the 1.2, but in any case, trem for me it will be the 1.1 or nothing, because according me, 1.2 will be poor in terms of gameplay.

Chill Dude, they'll fix it so 1.2 works. It's just beta, give it time....

[David]

btw, I can't find a way to fix my bindings. Wallwalking should be toggled, but until I untoggle and reset it to toggled,
it doesn't work. I mean, as I stop pressing the key, it vanishes.

That's a known bug from ioq3.  People have been doing lots of trying to fix it.  Hopefully gpp2 will be here soon to fix it.

[Norfenstein]

Someone discovered that if you turn cg_wwToggle to 0 and then back to 1 it'll work (presumably until you close Tremulous). Same thing with cg_sprintToggle.

Well I'm not ready to play was the true 1.2 if that's how.

So yes, you told me before the fov was a bug (which must come from quake 3 in this case is not it?) But the problem is that I'm used to having the fov "imperfect" of 1.1 .0, and now I can no longer play properly because I was not clear who the enemy is located on the edge of my field of vision.

Too bad Developers gentlemen, I like what you made but you will lose players, I hope that new players come on the 1.2, but in any case, trem for me it will be the 1.1 or nothing, because according me, 1.2 will be poor in terms of gameplay.

I think we'll manage without the one of you that refuses to play because he no longer has a slight advantage over everyone else.

[Asche]

Well.

[Winnie the Pooh]

I think he fails at trolling as too!

To me, the dragoon chomp range is a little too much. Perhaps you could scale it forward a couple units because you literally need to be touching the human in order to chomp it. (God have mercy on your soul if the human's diagonally away from you)

[Norfenstein]

Goon range seems to be a common complaint, but I just checked the git logs from the development branch: we've played with it at that value for (ahem), one week shy of two years. So I feel confident that everyone just needs to take the time to get used to it.

Now the increase in the goon repeat was much more recent, so if there really is anything wrong with the goon, that's more likely to be it.

[A Spork]

Norf, I have to say, discounting a major complain among many people just cuz its been like that for a while is kinda dumb.
Also, saying we just need to get used to it is somewhat counter to the earlier fact you pointed out: Its been around for 2 years, i think people would be used to it by now if they were gonna become used to it.

[Plague Bringer]

Holy Hannah, Norf. You can't ignore such a common complaint. That's what 1.2 is trying to do. Fix the things people don't like. There's nothing wrong with the repeat if that's not what people are complaining about. And repeat and range are definitely not mistakable. An increase in repeat was actually good, I think, because people were complaining about the speed of the chomp, too (I mean, rants slashed faster >_>). In game (and I've spent a few hours, which I know isn't much, but it's enough to notice that..) there have been many complaints about goon, and many people actually called it completely useless. Of course, I've used it, and I think that pounce, the secondary attack, should be just that, the secondary attack. Chomp is relatively useless. But, hell, don't take my word for it. Take the community's.

[your face]

...we've played with it at that value for (ahem), one week shy of two years. So I feel confident that everyone just needs to take the time to get used to it.

Nice contradiction, dood.

o sprok

[UniqPhoeniX]

the fov hasn't decreased for anyone except for the 3 of you with 5:4 resolutions, *all* games preserve vertical fov relative to 4:3 monitors except trem, and now that has been fixed.

That 3 includes me too I guess but how exactly was fov calculated before and how is it now???

[gimhael]

The old code assigned a fixed horizontal view angle and computed the vertical angle from the screen resolution:

fov_x = 2*45 degrees, fov_y = 2*atan(inv_aspect_ratio * tan(1/2 * fov_x))

The new code assigns a fixed vertical view angle and computes the horizontal angle from the resolution:

fov_y = 2*33.75 degrees, fov_x = 2*atan(aspect_ratio * tan(1/2 * fov_y)

This gives the following results :
ratio   old fov   new fov
 4:3    90:74      83:68
 5:4    90:77      80:68
16:9    90:59     100:68

I think the base value for the fov_y angle is wrong, it shouldn't be 0.75 * 45 degrees, but the angle should be chosen so that the tan() is 0.75 * tan(45).

Also in my opinion it would be better for fairness if the horizontal view was fixed and the vertical adjusted, but I also have a 5:4 screen, so I am obviously biased.

[Asche]

This gives the following results :
ratio   old fov   new fov
 4:3    90:74      83:68
 5:4    90:77      80:68
16:9    90:59     100:68

I understand why this approach is better for the 16:9 screen.

But for all the others, no matter what, since we found this a really small fov !

Is it possible that he would make a code calculates the fov that adapts to the resolution selected by the user? to allow the person who has 4:3 and 5:4 screens to have the old feeling of the game ?

[Conzul]

It's not fun to play as aliens anymore. That'll drive new people away. People don't come to tremulous thinking, "Wow, I get to shoot at aliens as a human with cool guns. I've never seen that before!" They come to tremulous thinking, "Wow, look at all these unique alien classes, each with its own set of skills and quirks, and I can get better and pwn with nearly every one of them with practice. I've never seen that before!"
Keep trem alive = keep honing that 1.2!

[UniqPhoeniX]

... but I also have a 5:4 screen, so I am obviously biased.

So we found the 3rd one!
edit: I also agree that horizontal should be fixed, as that's what matters in most games. Or it could depend on both? Maybe I should start playing in windowed mode with 1280x400...

[David]

I'm also on 5:4, but I always play windowed so never noticed.
I've now changed my 1024x768 window to 1280x768.  Lets see how it works out.

[Norfenstein]

Norf, I have to say, discounting a major complain among many people just cuz its been like that for a while is kinda dumb.

Also, saying we just need to get used to it is somewhat counter to the earlier fact you pointed out: Its been around for 2 years, i think people would be used to it by now if they were gonna become used to it.

Holy Hannah, Norf. You can't ignore such a common complaint. That's what 1.2 is trying to do. Fix the things people don't like.

Allow me to explain.

I'm not ignoring the complaints, and believe it or not I do listen to people. But if a long time goes by without me feeling the need to change something, and also without hearing very many complaints it, then it's going to take that much more to convince me that a change is actually necessary. For example, no one is going to convince me to change the turret spinup time; new turrets were I think the very first thing we did after 1.1 and the overwhelming majority of players have had no problem with it.

But given that the subset of people that played on the dev server for the past two years seem to have gotten used to the chomp range (so much so that I felt the need to further weaken it by increasing the repeat), I'm not going to be strongly persuaded by people that are still adjusting to it. In other words, it might not be something people dislike after playing for more than one week. If it is, then I'll take it under consideration. Is that really so dumb?

[Bajsefar]

Some ideas.
Every alien type should favor some aspect of them.
Dretch profits from being small, hard to hit and if you dretchstorm, 1 bite is enough. Devise is: "Human is 1, we are many"
Basilisk should profit from being "invisible". Grabbing and moving to backside means humans wont see you. adv lisk poisons so humans have hard time to aim or in other words, they cant see you again so well. Slowing effect wont pass here. Some servers have adv lisk as invisible lisk - invilisk, for some short amount of time(4s in every 40 sec or so). Its really fun thing. Devise is "I can see you, you cant see me"
Mara is really agile. He can move so fast, that humans cant aim it. Mara zap wont match again, it will do damage and damage only. I think its should slow humans down, so mara agility can be more favored. Devise is "I'm faster then you and your bullets"
Goons are flying things, they do their blizattack and run away. Sniping works well here, because snipers too hit and run. Devise is "If you can hit me, my job is already done"
Tyrants are pure tanks. They cant swarm, they are big and everyone can see them, they are slower but they got really much health. "You can hit me so much as you like, human will die still first"

I like this. I agree marauder should have a slowing attack, not lisk. Lisks revel in terror and confusion,  their special ability should match. Lisk disorienting gas is cool. But i think it should maybe have something to hide from radar for a short amount of time? Basilisks really shine when you can stealth.

[Celestial_Rage]

Norf, I have to say, discounting a major complain among many people just cuz its been like that for a while is kinda dumb.

Also, saying we just need to get used to it is somewhat counter to the earlier fact you pointed out: Its been around for 2 years, i think people would be used to it by now if they were gonna become used to it.

Holy Hannah, Norf. You can't ignore such a common complaint. That's what 1.2 is trying to do. Fix the things people don't like.

Allow me to explain.

I'm not ignoring the complaints, and believe it or not I do listen to people. But if a long time goes by without me feeling the need to change something, and also without hearing very many complaints it, then it's going to take that much more to convince me that a change is actually necessary. For example, no one is going to convince me to change the turret spinup time; new turrets were I think the very first thing we did after 1.1 and the overwhelming majority of players have had no problem with it.

But given that the subset of people that played on the dev server for the past two years seem to have gotten used to the chomp range (so much so that I felt the need to further weaken it by increasing the repeat), I'm not going to be strongly persuaded by people that are still adjusting to it. In other words, it might not be something people dislike after playing for more than one week. If it is, then I'll take it under consideration. Is that really so dumb?

I created a test server where the goon range was changed to 80.0f. You still had to be quite close to make a hit, but it was MUCH easier and much more fun, though, it was still quite easy for the human to own the alien, especially with dodge, which, I am assuming, is not the goal.

[frazzler]

I just played a game where the humans had 4 players and the aliens had 10. Humans won. They are just too incredibly overpowered. Built a single turret in the right spot, and you've won the game. Nobody can kill it, because it rapes too hard. Sure, a tyrant might come along, but then someone just fires their Uberfast luci at it, instant kill. Or perhaps a dretch storm approaches. All I need is my Uber accurate chaingun (what?) and rape them all. Or maybe every now and then an adv marauder will charge us, hoping to use its increased lightning ability! OH NOEZ! I simply swap out for a pulse rifle. Pulse rifles? I thought they had their ammo reduced? Yes, they did, but they also had a change to the way they fire, making their bullets much quicker, making it easier to kill the marauder in 2.5 seconds. But wait? What about the aliens? I could dretch, but I can't do much with that. Theirs the basi, with its new healing ability. But thats really only useful if I want to heal the other team members, any human now sees the basi as a threat and kills it first. Marauders are good, if I want to get luci/pulse-spammed. And the dragoon has been nerfed, so its slightly less useful. OH WAIT, THE EVER HANDY TYRANT! Nop. Nerfed hp, nerfed range. But wait, it has an added trample! But thats only useful if the human does just keep sprinting and side-dodging. Otherwise you cant even get close without the Uber MD's killing you. I am thoroughly dissapointed. Although, it was REALLY fun to play as humans.

[Plague Bringer]

tl;dq

I disagree. I don't like a lot of the alien changes, but I find it much easier to play a good 'goon and 'rant. In fact, I almost always get my evos back plus a few extra if I go 'rant. Trample is incredible. The new 'goon has a wonderful pounce. Of course, I think they should primarily use their primary attacks, but whatever. Basis are wonderful. It's easy to get killed, but they're support classes anyway, and don't belong on the frontlines. With the new luci speed, I've dretched plenty of lcannoners. I find it much easier to get killed on aliens than it is to kill on humans, but I guess that's a bit of a skill difference. That being said, I usually lead or at least am third or fourth (I'm talking 10+ players per team) on the alien scoreboard. Human bases, though, are incredibly difficult to take out as aliens, and it requires coordination and SD, in my [limited] experience. A few games, though, we were succesfully rushed by hummies, only to relocate two or three times, and proceed to win the game. Aliens are surprisingly flexible when it comes to bases, even with the new BP system (though I prefered it before).

Perchance the DC should increase the rate that BP returns to humans, and a structure () could increase the rate for aliens?

[Bubba_the_shy]

I WANT 2 THINGS!!!

1) The human dodge ability: Double tapping the left/right/back key to dodge (now we have to hold down an extra key). I want this a lot.

2) HUD: The ally status (location, weapon,..) list in the left upper corner takes too much screen, I want it like smaller and closer to the corner.



Thank you.

[Plague Bringer]

I WANT 2 THINGS!!!

1) The human dodge ability: Double tapping the left/right/back key to dodge (now we have to hold down an extra key). I want this a lot.
AFAIK, due to engine restrictions, this is impossible, or require a big code overhaul.

2) HUD: The ally status (location, weapon,..) list in the left upper corner takes too much screen, I want it like smaller and closer to the corner.
Think of GPP as 1.2 lite. In other words, we don't get all the fancy stuff, just the basics. I'm sure we'll be able to choose where to place the teamoverlay (we can already choose whether or not we want to see it). I imagine opacity and size may also be adjustable, though I'm just speculating using what I know of HUDs.


Thank you.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Double tapping will probably be possible with TF scripting. Every time you press left/back/right a check is made to see whether x is 0 or not, if yes, set x 1 and start a delay to set it back to 0; if it is already 1, dodge.

Code: [Select]

bind a "+moveleft;vstr cfg_dodgeCheck"
set cfg_dodgeX 0
set cfg_dodgeCheck "if cfg_dodgeX = 1 cfg_dodge cfg_dodge2"
set cfg_dodge "+button8;delay 50 -button8"
set cfg_dodge2 "set cfg_dodgeX 1; delay 300 set cfg_dodgeX 0"Anyone want to test this on 1.1 mgdev? note: I might have mixed up something like +button8 or 6??? Whether it needs + and then - etc...
I guess I'll make a general double tap script with alias and arguments that can be used for anything. "bind x cmd 300 cvar" where cmd will be the aliased command, 300 will be the max delay, and cvar is what will be vstrd if double tapped... should be easy.

[Conzul]

tl;dq

I find it much easier to get killed on aliens than it is to kill on humans, but I guess that's a bit of a skill difference.

This will dive away new players, like I said earlier. An easy solution is to make alien kills worth less, or require more for the next stage.

[Bissig]

tl;dq

I find it much easier to get killed on aliens than it is to kill on humans, but I guess that's a bit of a skill difference.

This will dive away new players, like I said earlier. An easy solution is to make alien kills worth less, or require more for the next stage.

Can easily be set in the individual server configuration.

[Bubba_the_shy]

Double tapping will probably be possible with TF scripting. Every time you press left/back/right a check is made to see whether x is 0 or not, if yes, set x 1 and start a delay to set it back to 0; if it is already 1, dodge.

Code: [Select]

bind a "+moveleft;vstr cfg_dodgeCheck"
set cfg_dodgeX 0
set cfg_dodgeCheck "if cfg_dodgeX = 1 cfg_dodge cfg_dodge2"
set cfg_dodge "+button8;delay 50 -button8"
set cfg_dodge2 "set cfg_dodgeX 1; delay 300 set cfg_dodgeX 0"Anyone want to test this on 1.1 mgdev? note: I might have mixed up something like +button8 or 6??? Whether it needs + and then - etc...
I guess I'll make a general double tap script with alias and arguments that can be used for anything. "bind x cmd 300 cvar" where cmd will be the aliased command, 300 will be the max delay, and cvar is what will be vstrd if double tapped... should be easy.

I must praise you now.

[zybork]

I played on dev.tremulous.net and fount the turrets too weak. Spinup is okay and so, but their turning should be either made faster, or their firepower increased. I could take down all turrets of a base easily with a single tyrant, I could not do that in 1.1, a single turret I could even take down with a granger... I dont know if other people experienced the same, but imo there needs to be a bit of finetuning done here.

[David]

A single turret is an easy kill.
But if the base is half decent then your tyrant will be dead long before you kill even one.

[Plague Bringer]

Maras rape bases in Nano because they're so erratic in their movements, they can get 'rets to lose their lock on them, and proceed to have people pulse the armory. -.-