Author Topic: More (feedback) (Read 13689 times)

Conzul · « **on:** January 06, 2010, 03:09:07 pm »

I've played a whole slew of 1.2 last two days (would rather have been playing 1.1, but I try not to give up), and it occurred to me that it's actually well balanced, except for few [notable] areas:
The Flamer, surprisingly, has taken over the luci as the human terror weapon. It can take down a retreating tyrant in just over a second. Humans can now use it (because it has much ammo) to fully blockade a hallway, and alien structures don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell against it. And everyone can get one because they're so dang cheap. In fact, a flamer can take down an alien floorbase more quickly and surely than a Lucifer wielder (because the flamer will automatically take out rushing aliens). And it still costs only 350$.
The aliens' terror weapon, the tyrant, is no longer terrible. Its useful life (in the face of teh new human inventions) consists of a single gory stampede to its death, hopefully having backup aliens finish of any damaged targets. It moves so slowly that Homer Simpson could catch it if he thought it was a donut. With the new Goonbarbs and marauder zap, it's role as a basekiller is gone. With the advanced mobility of dretches and basi gass and goon pounce, it has been occulted (passed by) as a human-hunter. Without an aura there is no reason for it to head attack groups. And lastly, with it's 350 HP the whole tyrant is equivalent to one and a half slow dragoons. A single dragoon can do more to a base and live then a tyrant can do with it's death rush. I gotta ask, what have you done to the poor thing? If you hate it that much, take it out of it's misery (remove it, cus as it is now, it just clogs doorways and hinders even it's own team)....
Anyway, outside of that I'm actually warming up to 1.2 as aliens have to be on their game to win(was other way round in 1.1). Can't say I even notice a luci player unless they're in my base, and then they go down quickly because it takes so long to charge cannon. more afraid of flamer now....got the hang of dretches, thought they were a bad change but I likey now....see what u think of above...

Demolution · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2010, 06:57:21 pm »

Good points. It's interesting to note that s3 seems very nerfed for both races.

frazzler · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2010, 10:14:03 pm »

And s2. And s1. And almost all aliens.

Kiwi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2010, 10:30:21 pm »

Quote from: Conzul on January 06, 2010, 03:09:07 pm

Can't say I even notice a luci player unless they're in my base, and then they go down quickly because it takes so long to charge cannon. more afraid of flamer now...

I read what you said, but this really stood out. The luci is *very* strong now. It is amazingly fast, some people just have adapted to using it now. In my opinion it is slightly overpowered, and the flamer has no range :p

Conzul · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2010, 12:12:42 am »

Ah but the flamer does have range if you're a poor little s1 alien. Damage seems to occur even outside the graphic (flames). Yeah, the luci is overpowered, but still flamer is the workhorse weapon. Heh, there used to be a luci shield, now it's the flame shield. I have no problem with it being that powerful, but that cheap...not good. You will always see a human make enough kills with his toys to get them again once he dies, but never an alien (assuming they're the same skill, often not). Human team has a decent tank (bsuit), I just think to be fair the alien team should have one (350 HP WTF guys? If you were high I'll forgive you, but that's just silly). I think rant speed is realistic now, but to nerf it's HP is....well.....

cron · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2010, 12:46:44 am »

A slightly faster Tyrant with 375 HP would probably be perfect.

nissarin · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2010, 01:14:24 pm »

Try turning on friendly fire and see how awesome is flamethrower.. Personally I don't think that having FF disabled on official servers is a good idea, it's maybe "newb" friendly but certainly doesn't help balance the game. But well, I'm still new to this game (about one month + some time a few years ago), perhaps that's the way most ppl are playing (with ff off).

Conzul · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:44:04 pm »

Quote from: cron on January 07, 2010, 12:46:44 am

A slightly faster Tyrant with 375 HP would probably be perfect.

My thought is why not just return it to 400 HP and make it cost more, say 6-8 evos? Humans have two John Wayne weapon kits (flamer, luci) that can take out hordes of aliens/base structures. Yet the aliens have no such class or ability. Whoever likes the game that way probably spent too much time playing Galaxion in laundromats...

Demolution · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2010, 08:43:26 pm »

Quote from: Conzul on January 07, 2010, 04:44:04 pm

My thought is why not just return it to 400 HP and make it cost more, say 6-8 evos? Humans have two John Wayne weapon kits (flamer, luci) that can take out hordes of aliens/base structures. Yet the aliens have no such class or ability. Whoever likes the game that way probably spent too much time playing Galaxion in laundromats...

A group of 2-3 adv maras can eliminate a base in seconds.

Conzul · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2010, 10:56:53 pm »

Quote from: Demolution on January 07, 2010, 08:43:26 pm

Quote from: Conzul on January 07, 2010, 04:44:04 pm
My thought is why not just return it to 400 HP and make it cost more, say 6-8 evos? Humans have two John Wayne weapon kits (flamer, luci) that can take out hordes of aliens/base structures. Yet the aliens have no such class or ability. Whoever likes the game that way probably spent too much time playing Galaxion in laundromats...

A group of 2-3 adv maras can eliminate a base in seconds.

I meant of course within the scope of ONE player, sorry for the poor sentence.

Demolution · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:24:41 pm »

I agree with you that the rant has been nerfed, but maybe the alien strategy has to change? Even a lone mara with some decent dodging skills can cause enough damage to a base to make an entry point for the rest of the alien team. This, coupled with goon sniping, and some rant support seems to work very well from what I've seen. It still doesn't solve the luci/flamer issue, but it works I suppose.

Conzul · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2010, 12:59:39 am »

Yeah. Okay then. But deep down, you must agree with me somewhat that something so big should not be so weak.

Demolution · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2010, 05:08:34 am »

Quote from: Conzul on January 08, 2010, 12:59:39 am

Yeah. Okay then. But deep down, you must agree with me somewhat that something so big should not be so weak.

Oh but I do. I strongly agree.

Minimum · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:24:19 am »

You prefer the tyrant to be an all-enveloping, whoring, unbeatable class that forces humans to camp? I can say I haven't played much 1.2 (Allthough, I did play alot of Trepidus... not the same though) but tyrant seems alot better now. You say its worth 1.5 slow dragoons? Well, an adv dragoon is worth 4 evos. A tyrant is worth 5. Therefore, the Tyrant more than beats its price. I'm no expert, but I think I prefer this new tyrant than the easy mode old Tyrant. Shock of the new, is all.

Conzul · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2010, 03:57:16 pm »

Quote from: Minimum on January 08, 2010, 10:24:19 am

You prefer the tyrant to be an all-enveloping, whoring, unbeatable class that forces humans to camp? I can say I haven't played much 1.2 (Allthough, I did play alot of Trepidus... not the same though) but tyrant seems alot better now. You say its worth 1.5 slow dragoons? Well, an adv dragoon is worth 4 evos. A tyrant is worth 5. Therefore, the Tyrant more than beats its price. I'm no expert, but I think I prefer this new tyrant than the easy mode old Tyrant. Shock of the new, is all.

You yourself said you hadn't played 1.2, so I'll not blurt out what I was going to. You should try it. The New Tyrant looks good on paper, but in actuality it sucks (till someone takes the time to get used to it, not within the patience of many). It clips the environment and loses whole tramples because of its huge hitbox, which lovingly invites any projectile aimed remotely in its direction to make contact and kill. It isn't a tank anymore, moving across empty spaces it dies quickly without trample. Regen rate, given 350HP, is absurdly slow. And yes, maybe I do think the tyrant should be "an all-enveloping, whoring, unbeatable class..." In tremulous you expect to get new, shiny things at each level of reinforcements/evolution. Sure aliens can still win, but at s3 humans get a big shiny God Gun which they could win without anyway. If they get shine at s3, aliens should as well. The Tyrant is weak enough to be s2 - maybe that's where it should be (it's usually s2 equipment that brings down tyrants anyway). Development has broken the idiom by giving humans shiny things at each level, but for aliens just the first 2. Go play 10 hrs of 1.2 as an alien, then tell me what you think.

A Spork · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2010, 07:58:52 pm »

Actually, the Rant isn't really nerfed.
One game in Karith, I was the last survivor of the aliens, as a rant, and I lasted a good 10 minutes, just with trample mostly(Woulda won, there was a lucicamper....)So really, You just have to change ur playing style.

UniqPhoeniX · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:20:32 pm »

Quote from: Conzul on January 08, 2010, 03:57:16 pm

The New Tyrant looks good on paper, but in actuality it sucks (till someone takes the time to get used to it, not within the patience of many).

Can you people stop saying this shit? Obviously you have to get used to it, if it was good before that, it would be overpowered once a player who is good with it gets it.

Winnie the Pooh · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2010, 10:59:28 pm »

Quote

(till someone takes the time to get used to it, not within the patience of many).

Um, helloooo that's what tremulous is about.. it's called "practicing". Not sure if you've heard of it.

On topic:

Rants may be well over-powered with their new trample, but when you consider the costs of saving up for a rant, it's well worth it and is deserved. Plus, with their new hp they have less time to stand idly by and do nothing. The ENTIRE alien team is built on mobility and speed, and the rant got slimmer, faster, and lighter.

I laugh when people say the rant is too slow.

These people have yet to use their mouse2 button.

Conzul · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:17:22 pm »

Quote from: UniqPhoeniX on January 08, 2010, 10:20:32 pm

Quote from: Conzul on January 08, 2010, 03:57:16 pm
The New Tyrant looks good on paper, but in actuality it sucks (till someone takes the time to get used to it, not within the patience of many).
Can you people stop saying this shit? Obviously you have to get used to it, if it was good before that, it would be overpowered once a player who is good with it gets it.

The exact same could be said of the Lucifer Cannon. Maybe you should stop saying shit about how it's just fine..huuUUHH?

Quote from: A Spork on January 08, 2010, 07:58:52 pm

Actually, the Rant isn't really nerfed.
One game in Karith, I was the last survivor of the aliens, as a rant, and I lasted a good 10 minutes, just with trample mostly(Woulda won, there was a lucicamper....)So really, You just have to change ur playing style.

Inevitably.

Quote from: Winnie the Pooh on January 08, 2010, 10:59:28 pm

Quote
(till someone takes the time to get used to it, not within the patience of many).

Um, helloooo that's what tremulous is about.. it's called "practicing". Not sure if you've heard of it.

On topic:

Rants may be well over-powered with their new trample, but when you consider the costs of saving up for a rant, it's well worth it and is deserved. Plus, with their new hp they have less time to stand idly by and do nothing. The ENTIRE alien team is built on mobility and speed, and the rant got slimmer, faster, and lighter.

I laugh when people say the rant is too slow.

These people have yet to use their mouse2 button.

Fuck you and the umbrella you floated in on.

Winnie the Pooh · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2010, 11:47:11 pm »

Conzul, you make me laugh.

Silly little loser. =P

Conzul · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2010, 01:32:41 am »

Yeah, I live to amuse. Go stick your head in a honeypot

Winnie the Pooh · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:55:49 am »

So, what, don't you want to continue the discussion? Any reply to my points besides "Fuck you and the umbrella you rode in on."?

Edit: Also, karmarets don't really mean anything. Applejuice has like -50 rets, but he's still very smart and rational.

Conzul · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:43:53 am »

Oh, no, your points were fine and sensible, I just wanted to make fun of you. Course one needs practice. I played some more, guess the tyrant's efficacy varies wildly by map. But I stand by what I was saying about the cheapness of the lucifer cannon, and the flamethrower. Which is that they are too cheap.

Winnie the Pooh · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:57:49 am »

Yes, a rant's charge is complete death to someone who's up against a wall. Other than that, it takes skill to keep someone in front of you while charging them.

I agree with you about the flamethrower, I think it's too cheap to be as powerful as it is in the hands of a n00b.

The Lucifer Cannon seems very thought-out with it's pro's and cons and I like it.

frazzler · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2010, 08:54:04 am »

karma is the method of dick-stroking the forum uses on people who say funny shit.

Caffeine · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2010, 02:20:21 pm »

Not exactly sure what you're whining about with the new rant for... if you've got a good team not full of selfish noobs, which happens more than most people will admit, your tyrant has very good regen from the basi that should be providing support. You CAN survive a pop into the human base, it's not really all that nerfed, it just takes some time to get used to... i spent nearly all of today (first time) playing 1.2 and it didn't take long for me to get used to any of the new things about aliens accept that wacky angle you aim from for rant... wtf is up with that, i mean it makes sense but... who thought that up?

O.o

Aliens are supposed to be about mobility, not "omg i can take >9000 hits and keep going" that's called a bsuit.
I LOVE the new basi auras.

UniqPhoeniX · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:41:09 pm »

Quote from: Conzul on January 08, 2010, 11:17:22 pm

The exact same could be said of the Lucifer Cannon. Maybe you should stop saying shit about how it's just fine..huuUUHH?

When did I say it's just fine? I just pointed out a stupid argument you used, something that shouldn't exist in your posts if you are trying to show something is not balanced. If that's not what you are trying to do then stop posting about balance.

Norfenstein · « **Reply #27 on:** January 09, 2010, 08:20:46 pm »

Quote from: Conzul on January 06, 2010, 03:09:07 pm

The Flamer, surprisingly, has taken over the luci as the human terror weapon. It can take down a retreating tyrant in just over a second. Humans can now use it (because it has much ammo) to fully blockade a hallway, and alien structures don't stand a snowflake's chance in hell against it. And everyone can get one because they're so dang cheap. In fact, a flamer can take down an alien floorbase more quickly and surely than a Lucifer wielder (because the flamer will automatically take out rushing aliens). And it still costs only 350$.

It never costed 350 credits; it used to be 450 and now it's 400. And it gets less player kills than every human weapon except the painsaw, grenade, and blaster, and less structure kills than every other human weapon. So I really don't know where you're coming from.

Conzul · « **Reply #28 on:** January 09, 2010, 09:27:09 pm »

okay, okay, I was wrong about several things. I'm always posting these 4 hours after I shoulda been asleep anyway. Sorry.

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Author Topic: More (feedback) (Read 13689 times)