Author Topic: Maps on the official server  (Read 8968 times)

Caffeine

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Maps on the official server
« on: January 11, 2010, 04:42:31 pm »
I'd like to suggest a change in the map rotations for the official server. Some of the maps currently in rotation are biased *cough 1984* all I can do is suggest that such maps be reviewed and taken out of the standard rotation to make statistics more rounded. I'm not one of those people who only wants atcs... But niveus nexus karith tremor atcs utcs nano and probably one or two other non-crazy maps would be a good enough rotation. No offense meant to the people building crazy maps or one sided maps... But for beta testing of new changes it would be nice to do it on sane, VERY balanced maps. As always thanks for reading :)

I'd suggest one of my favorites uncreation but it isn't particularly popular and it's debatable whether it's balanced.

And thanks to all you folks making maps and coding changes.

Asvarox

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 05:58:54 pm »
nano utcs and tremor balanced? that's the news
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Winnie the Pooh

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 08:38:45 pm »
The fact that you suggested uncreation at the end clinches it.
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Kiwi

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 08:39:11 pm »
Bam!  Find out for yourself.

Norfenstein

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 12:52:00 am »
Some of the maps currently in rotation are biased *cough 1984*
1984 isn't in the rotation (nor does it appear to be significantly biased). I've been meaning to expand it for a while now, but the current rotation is: karith, arachnid2, niveus, nano, nexus6, atcs, tremor.

But for beta testing of new changes it would be nice to do it on sane, VERY balanced maps.
I disagree. Besides having no way of telling which maps are balanced without playing them, I'd say the target should be reasonably balanced maps because we want the game to balanced for as wide a range of environments as possible. As long as the maplist isn't too small and doesn't contain anything egregiously imbalanced (such as Uncreation), the differences should average out well enough.

Caffeine

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 01:27:48 am »
Yes, on all of those maps, both sides have good places for a base, they can easily move around the entirety of the map, and there isn't any crazy shit that favors one side or the other.

What makes a map unbalanced is

A: One side has a clear advantage i.e. very open flat spaces with little cover (favors humans) or very tight halls too much ground clutter, or large portions of the map are inaccessible to walking classes (favors aliens)

B: Base locations are restrictive for one race or another, or poor staring base area.

All of the maps i've mentioned have at least decent starting base areas, and if a knowledgeable builder works diligently a base can be quickly made and then improved to last the entire game and give your team a solid fallback to work from. They also can be moved about in by any player who isn't a total noob, and they don't have a ton of crazy shit that makes them hard to learn and understand, they're free of glitches and they don't favor one side over the other  in terms of layout and movement.

Granted new players who try building, people who build 1.1 style bases, and gaps in skill tactics and teamwork will make maps seem skewed to one side. It's harder to build a good alien base on nano than it is on say... niveus or in the elevator room of karith but it can be done with some thought and planning.

For example: I'm going to pick apart the map 1984 since it's the most recent one i've played that has annoyed me

1984 is an alien-centric map because starting out dretches can very easily access the roof areas and move freely around the map without much worry of being shot at and, as humans have no way to track them it makes it very difficult to play actively, forcing a camp in one of several locations or what will most likely (if the aliens have any brains) be a huge feed, then at s2 humans get jetpack... which does almost nothing because a dragoon can easily pounce from building tops and take them down... there isn't really any alien class that will have difficulty moving about in the map other than tyrant, but all humans are essentially restricted to the ground if aliens do their job. The helmet helps prevent ambush but it's also a marginal benefit because there is only one path to the roofs and the aliens can easily restrict humans access to that path. The humans starting base is a POS and the starting base area is also very poor. There isn't really a GOOD place for a human base only decent ones.

Now lets look at a good map: UTCS since Asvarox is raggin on it :P

The starting areas for both teams are good places to build a base, secondary base locations are not very good for either side but i've seen some ok outposts or even a good move or two on this map, the center location is fairly open but for dragoons this isn't much of a problem, and if you adjust your tactics accordingly, try to attack in the halls and use surprise maras, basilisks and dretches don't have too hard a time, tyrants... eh, depends on the situation but I don't tend to use them much, humans will make good use of the rifle, las, and md, using the distance of the center and openness of the halls to their advantage. Both teams are on fairly equal ground and if the difference in skill is not too big, and if the proper strategy is used it can be a nice long match that is fun and fair.

If you look at it this way... if it takes a substantial gap in skill, teamwork, or tactics for one team to beat the other on any particular map, it's not balanced.

tl;dr: good maps have good places for bases and a mix of open, and tight terrain, or have a layout that is sort of "between" tight and open all over, they are for the most part accessible to both humans and aliens at s1 and neither race will have problems moving around them.

I was mistaken about it 1984 being in the rotation :P i'd suggest adding UTCS into the rotation. As for balancing it on a wide range of maps, yes I agree but some maps are just... well kinda dumb... I don't wanna play rotcannon, crazysurf, lowrise, or any of those maps that have confusing teleportation systems and way too many tunnels on the official server unless a bunch of people vote for them.

Anyway that's just my opinion, I try to be as logical and explain as well as I can.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:54:54 am by Caffeine »

Conzul

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 01:31:28 pm »
I like uncreation. It's surreal.

Blood-Lord

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 08:09:03 pm »
i like how they set it up where each stage you entire the doors open up, but other then that im not to sure if i like it... if the humans really wanted to be gay and get to s2 very easily... all they would have to do is camp, and the aliens could do almost nothing about it, also the hall ways in that map are way to small, if you want an alien rush against hs3, they would get raped pretty easily, possibly even hs2.

Conzul

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 08:53:22 pm »
Oh I'm not denying that it favors the humans, it just makes you feel that much better when you crush them as aliens... :dretch:

Caffeine

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 07:35:06 pm »
Yes, but for smaller games, say 2v2 or 3v3 it's an ok map, and as long as humans don't camp too hard it's allright :) i like how the thread turned into a conversation about uncreation :D

At s3 a coordinated attack from both halls is a great tactic, and allows a better rush and better alien mobility.

Lakitu7

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2010, 10:22:50 pm »
When the server is really full, nano and tremor are really unfun. Probably we need to work on a playercount-based rotation.

Liskey

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 10:00:08 pm »
1984 is an alien-centric map because starting out dretches can very easily access the roof areas and move freely around the map without much worry of being shot at and, as humans have no way to track them it makes it very difficult to play actively, forcing a camp in one of several locations or what will most likely (if the aliens have any brains) be a huge feed, then at s2 humans get jetpack... which does almost nothing because a dragoon can easily pounce from building tops and take them down...

As you say, that's one man's opinion, and I find it interesting that it is the exact opposite of mine.  I'd much rather play humans on 1984 because it's usually productive to stand in the sewer and pick off dretches from a mile away!.

But opinions are like you-know-what: everyone has one.  The stats say different - 1984 is just about the most balanced map there is.  Current stats: aliens 19, humans 20, ties 1.

Edit: And I like uncreation too.  It probably shouldn't be in the rotation, but I'll F1 every time it's voted on.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 10:07:33 pm by Liskey »

tuple

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2010, 01:30:10 am »
And I like uncreation too.  It probably shouldn't be in the rotation, but I'll F1 every time it's voted on.

+1 - I LOVE uncreation.  Its one of the maps I like playing alien OR human on.

Kiwi

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 12:28:31 am »
+1 - I LOVE uncreation.  Its one of the maps I like playing alien OR human on.
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Silver

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Re: Maps on the official server
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 04:49:42 pm »
That's why it's more fun in smaller games.
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