Dear Development Team!

[Asvarox]

1. It is difficult to adapt to.
2. It is difficult for noobs to adapt to even more so than vets of 1.1
3. some changes seem to be irrelevant and provide no real bonus to gameplay.
4. changes have made playing as aliens more frustrating (not necessarily harder, but it feels like it when you're being luci-spammed at your spawn)
5. Humans now seem to camp MORE instead of less, which is why some changes were implemented.
Finally, 6. The game is no longer fun to play. It is far more competitive, which isn't a bad thing, but it's more frustrating, and less fun to play.

1. Everyone I know didn't have hard time switching from 1.1 to 1.2 IMO you (1.2 sucks people) just overstate adapt thing
2. You can speak as noob or vet, not both. And newbs won't have to adapt to any changes at all as they will play "brand new" game
3. Some changes mean nothing
4. Yes, because no one ever killed an egg with luci in 1.1 (that's called sarcasm (oh, that too)).
5. In 1.1 there were really few games that I played against not camping humans, 1.2 seems to be the opposite
6. I find 1.2 MUCH more fun than 1.1 where all you had to do as alien was to camp with rant near humans base entrances/try to still rant's food as any other class/try to kill a ret as anything when there are 4 humans sitting at it.

[frazzler]

1. It is difficult to adapt to.
2. It is difficult for noobs to adapt to even more so than vets of 1.1
3. some changes seem to be irrelevant and provide no real bonus to gameplay.
4. changes have made playing as aliens more frustrating (not necessarily harder, but it feels like it when you're being luci-spammed at your spawn)
5. Humans now seem to camp MORE instead of less, which is why some changes were implemented.
Finally, 6. The game is no longer fun to play. It is far more competitive, which isn't a bad thing, but it's more frustrating, and less fun to play.

1. Everyone I know didn't have hard time switching from 1.1 to 1.2 IMO you (1.2 sucks people) just overstate adapt thing
2. You can speak as noob or vet, not both. And newbs won't have to adapt to any changes at all as they will play "brand new" game
3. Some changes mean nothing
4. Yes, because no one ever killed an egg with luci in 1.1 (that's called sarcasm (oh, that too)).
5. In 1.1 there were really few games that I played against not camping humans, 1.2 seems to be the opposite
6. I find 1.2 MUCH more fun than 1.1 where all you had to do as alien was to camp with rant near humans base entrances/try to still rant's food as any other class/try to kill a ret as anything when there are 4 humans sitting at it.

1. Fair nuff.
2. I have friends who play.
3. Yepp.
4. I mean shooting me as soon as I exit the egg.
5. Really? I find it difficult to find a 1.2 game where there's not a bunch of hummies sittin on their ear-splitting-spin-up rets. Gotta find me some better servers.
6. I also find rants boring. You smash, run, smash, run, smash, run, die. repeat. I am that retard who jumps in as a dretch against a fully armoured shotgunner. More fun that way.

[UniqPhoeniX]

1. It is difficult to adapt to.   imo still easier then 1.1
2. It is difficult for noobs to adapt to even more so than vets of 1.1   are you saying it is supposed to be harder for vets? I remember som1 complain it was harder for vets... then which way do you haters like it?
3. some changes seem to be irrelevant and provide no real bonus to gameplay.   which ones?
4. changes have made playing as aliens more frustrating (not necessarily harder, but it feels like it when you're being luci-spammed at your spawn)   being lucispammed at spawn? wtf? luci is MUCH harder to spam now if you haven't noticed, especially in alien base where it can't defend itself as well any more
5. Humans now seem to camp MORE instead of less, which is why some changes were implemented.   imo they camp less O.o
Finally, 6. The game is no longer fun to play. It is far more competitive, which isn't a bad thing, but it's more frustrating, and less fun to play.   opinion... don't worry, there will be newb servers

6. I also find rants boring. You smash, run, smash, run, smash, run, die. repeat. I am that retard who jumps in as a dretch against a fully armoured shotgunner. More fun that way.

BULLSHIT. Was 10x worse in 1.1.

4. changes have made playing as aliens more frustrating (not necessarily harder, but it feels like it when you're being luci-spammed at your spawn) It's nearly impossible to get frags if you join aliens in the late-game.

Oh sure... partial frags made it sooo much harder. And you only have to get a high class once, after that won't matter how long you played.

[Norfenstein]

I'd like to hear specifics about what makes 1.2 hard to learn for new players than 1.1.

[StevenM]

suit yourself. I got my opinions.

opinions based on absolutely nothing solid.

[temple]

The game for humans is probably easier to learn.  It is more unforgiving for aliens.

Dretches take 2 headshots which really makes a difference when humans are jumping, sprinting, and now dodging around.  The feedback isn't there for when beginners are doing something right.  1.1, one headshot and you get the painful groan letting you know to finish them.  Now, you can land a headshot and you don't really know until you get the second or until you hit them a few more times that it actually worked.  Combine that with passive nature of dretches, and noobs are going to be in the dark for a while. 

Basilisks and marauders are noob-proofed so congrats on that.

Goons and rants are way more unforgiving with chomp and maul.  They require more precise, more wait time between them, and the POV change between classes can be disorienting in an already disorienting game.  #1 complaint I've heard about aliens is they are hard to stomach, perspective wise.  Now, the chomp/maul attacks are harder to hit with and in a different viewpoints.

Plus chomp and maul are on left mouse button by default, which says to the player they are the primary attacks.  Pounce/trample should be left mouse and chomp/maul should be right mouse (as someone else stated) since pounce/trample have unseated the other attacks' role. 

Pounce/trample are more finicky than before.  You can't chain them like before (gotta land to charge pounce, trample doesn't autofire when fully charged or charge up when charging).  Their damage varies and it isn't based on accuracy like say a headshot (even though every other class does). 

A lot of changes make sense to a vet because we already know the mechanics.  But a new player has the learn the mechanics and they will be lost as to how to make the most of it. Mainly because tremulous is already confusing enough.  The side rules and little features make some stuff frustrating and 1.2 has more of them than 1.1 IMO.

[StevenM]

I completely agree with temple on his stance in terms of the dretch. I dont think its perfected. I cant seem to find any consistency in my bites. with 1.1 finding that sweet spot was simple and effective. In 1.2 its much more difficult, which i dont think is necessarily more balanced because humans now have the dodge function. this makes it trivial to simple dodge back from the dretch. I found that if you want to consistently 2-bite-KO a human, good luck because its gonna take a high degree of concentration, precision and skill.

I believe that the goon is perfect as it is. Now i havent been able to test norfs recent changes concerning the chomp and pounce range, but on paper i think it was the only thing needed to be done for the goon.

[jit]

I completely agree with temple on his stance in terms of the dretch. I dont think its perfected. I cant seem to find any consistency in my bites. with 1.1 finding that sweet spot was simple and effective. In 1.2 its much more difficult, which i dont think is necessarily more balanced because humans now have the dodge function. this makes it trivial to simple dodge back from the dretch. I found that if you want to consistently 2-bite-KO a human, good luck because its gonna take a high degree of concentration, precision and skill.

I believe that the goon is perfect as it is. Now i havent been able to test norfs recent changes concerning the chomp and pounce range, but on paper i think it was the only thing needed to be done for the goon.

ya i recently played gpp again and the dretching is kinda weird. you dont really know how much dmg u deal to the human each time u attack them. it took me an average of 3 hits to kill a human. sometimes i'd do 2 hits but mostly 3 hits would do the job.

goon chomp is a lot easier now since norf made the last change to the air speed. before saturday, the last time i played gpp (not just idling in the server talking) around early december and compared to now, the goon is a lot easier. strafe jumping is more useful and you can do the jump chomp thing in human bases again because of the air speed increase.

[FisherP]

OK, I understand this, a... "Is there NO END to the MADNESS"

Hey, a real question, asked nicely! +1

Development of Tremulous is rather compartmentalized. I'm really the only one making decisions about the gameplay, and I give little to no input regarding most else. And we really don't get together to make schedules and TODO lists, but I think Timbo, at least, has a solid idea of what constitutes "done". So I'm going to say the only thing that's at all open-ended is this process of testing and refining the gameplay. And my prediction is that I'm going to reach a "done" state before everything else is finished.

Or rather have you made an unconscious decision to stop when you feel it's right?

Nothing unconscious about it. There can't be objective limits to something like this, so I'm going to say "done" when I feel everything is right. And everything is so close to right already that if there were nothing else was left to do for 1.2 I would stop making adjustments right now.

But to be less vague, I'm still unsatisfied with: the flamer, the goon pounce, and the speed of marauders. The first two need some minor adjustments that will take a little more testing, and the change I'm probably going with for the marauder I don't expect to need testing. So I'm really almost done unless friendly fire on horribly breaks something (which I don't expect it to).

Thank you Norf, this was the best answer given yet, and I've asked several times. Hrm, in fact this is the first time I think this question was answered. What would really be Brilliant is if Timbo would answer it too.

[Conzul]

Nah headbiting for dretch is easy. Just aim above the head of the marine, higher than you would expect to. I've had frenzies of 3-4 kills several times in a match even. Oh, and hummies don't use dodge anywhere near its usefulness. By the time you've intercepted them, they've used it all in sprint. Yeah, it's harder (dretching) thank in 1.1, but you just gotta focus more. Personally, I like it. I've already said in feedback what I don't like about the dretch.

[temple]

Nah headbiting for dretch is easy.

Please understand what we are saying.

Headbiting with a dretch is harder to detect because it no longer deals as much damage.  Beginners could have a harder time learning to headbite because there are less clues.  In 1.1, a headbitten humans will moan louder than normal, which is a really good audio clue that you did something right.  In 1.2, it isn't as noticeable, thus harder to learn.

[Norfenstein]

goon chomp is a lot easier now since norf made the last change to the air speed.

The only things I changed were the range of the bite and the range of pounce (not the distance you fly or anything -- the distance from the center of your bounding box to your target needed to register a hit during a pounce).

[frazzler]

Norf, you are my favourite dev, because you actually talk to us and give us good answers. Most of the time.

[A Spork]

I completely agree with temple on his stance in terms of the dretch. I dont think its perfected. I cant seem to find any consistency in my bites. with 1.1 finding that sweet spot was simple and effective. In 1.2 its much more difficult, which i dont think is necessarily more balanced because humans now have the dodge function. this makes it trivial to simple dodge back from the dretch. I found that if you want to consistently 2-bite-KO a human, good luck because its gonna take a high degree of concentration, precision and skill.

I believe that the goon is perfect as it is. Now i havent been able to test norfs recent changes concerning the chomp and pounce range, but on paper i think it was the only thing needed to be done for the goon.

totally agree on the dretch, I don't enjoying dretching near as much now, in 1.1 I would often just stay as a dretch cuz it was fun, now I evo as soon as I can, because it's not as enjoyable.

Goon, I'm a bit conflicted, I dunno, something just seems a bit weird about how it feels since 1.1, more than just the chomp range I think....I dunno....

[FreaK]

I completely agree with temple on his stance in terms of the dretch. I dont think its perfected. I cant seem to find any consistency in my bites. with 1.1 finding that sweet spot was simple and effective. In 1.2 its much more difficult, which i dont think is necessarily more balanced because humans now have the dodge function. this makes it trivial to simple dodge back from the dretch. I found that if you want to consistently 2-bite-KO a human, good luck because its gonna take a high degree of concentration, precision and skill.

I believe that the goon is perfect as it is. Now i havent been able to test norfs recent changes concerning the chomp and pounce range, but on paper i think it was the only thing needed to be done for the goon.

totally agree on the dretch, I don't enjoying dretching near as much now, in 1.1 I would often just stay as a dretch cuz it was fun, now I evo as soon as I can, because it's not as enjoyable.

Goon, I'm a bit conflicted, I dunno, something just seems a bit weird about how it feels since 1.1, more than just the chomp range I think....I dunno....

I find it easy to get headshots with the new dretch, you just have to be smart where you attack from.

[Winnie the Pooh]

I'd like to hear specifics about what makes 1.2 harder to learn for new players than 1.1.

Hm.

What we need in new players is education.

A clear, easy to read manual would be absolutely perfect. Add access to the manual from in-game, and we've got a good reference for new players.

I agree with others who say that what we need is some kind of tutorial video. Learning by example is great for newbies. No, I'm not going to do it, and neither are you.

Example: My friend Repatition had been playing trem for a couple months. While he was playing aliens, he pointed at the screen and said "What are these blue and red dots for? They're annoying."

No joke.

Perhaps include an FAQ in the Help section of the in-game esc menu.

[A Spork]

A better FAQ thats ingame would be good...
If the devs don't want to do the work to create it, I'd gladly do my best to cover the basics of how to play....

[your face]

....My friend Repatition...

Bravery: you have it.

[Conzul]

I'd like to hear specifics about what makes 1.2 harder to learn for new players than 1.1.

Example: My friend Repatition had been playing trem for a couple months. While he was playing aliens, he pointed at the screen and said "What are these blue and red dots for? They're annoying."

No joke.

I hurt myself.