double press key for dodge

[WarLock]

Hi all
i play some old game last weekend, original Unreal and i find that if you double press mouvement key(up,down,left,right) it's make something like dodge in tremulous. my question is it is possible that in the 1.2 we can have someting similar to this, of course we can activate/desactivate with a cvar or tremulous menu. Plz this change will add more controle over dodge

BTW latest change look good. nice work dev
Thanks

Warlock

[David]

AFAIK it's not something q3 can handle.

[Silver]

I believe you can do this with binds. 

[David]

You can do it with hacky binds and wait etc, but it's not something I'd trust to not suddenly break when you're pummelling the movement keys in combat.

[WarLock]

i'm sure it something that can be coded direcly in tremulous ... waiting dev advise
Thanks
Warlock

[StevenM]

i dont think thats possible right now, youd need if statements for loops and all that. Ive spent some time trying to accomplish that very bind. lets just say it was very frustrating..

[nissarin]

It shouldn't be that hard to code and personally I think this approach is more intuitive (oh well, I also played UT long time ago..), more importantly this way we can "reclaim" one key/button.

[SlackerLinux]

i agree doubletap would be better
maybe someone should code it up to show the devs how better it is.

[Bubba_the_shy]

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12275.msg184155#msg184155

[WarLock]

You need to use the if and delay command in bind ,that is someting i dont know will be in 1.2
But ya if we can make this by using bind ... Chapeau

can some trem dev can speak on this one

Thanks
Warlock

[SlackerLinux]

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12275.msg184155#msg184155

i don't mean make a haxxy bind that only works for some clients i mean actually code the game to dodge when a direction is doubletapped.

[computerquip]

? I hate dodge and think it should be taken out but:

When the key is pressed, you can mark a point on the game's timer and if the event is called again within a certain amount of time, you can call a function, or dodge. This itself is a bit direct with the code but it will work. If you want to give the user the options of choosing whether or not he wants double tap or single tapped dodging can be done with a few booleans and set variables. It's not something that can't be done.

[Conzul]

I think that if you want to double-tap to dodge, the delay while you are double tapping will tell experienced alien players both:
That you are going to dodge,
And in which direction you are going to dodge.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Double tap will probably only take 5-15 ms, so that really won't matter much.

[bob0]

Double tap will probably only take 5-15 ms, so that really won't matter much.

Sure, if you can press your dodge key 200 to 66⅔ times in a second...































I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second, so the delay between each keypress is at least 100ms.

[Demolution]

I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second...

[Plague Bringer]

I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second...

To be fair, two hits in 10ms is much easier than three in 15ms or four in 20ms.
To be doubly fair, I don't think that one tenth of a second (that is an INCREDIBLY tiny amount of time) is enough time for any alien player to notice the incredibly slight movement change and effectively react, unless their twitch reflex is brilliant.

[nissarin]

This is partial output of xev command, showing X server events. In this particular example I tried to double tap a few times, so it goes like this: key down, key up, key down, key up, short break and then again.. Anyway, it looks like it takes ~50-60ms between key down/up and another ~90-100ms until next "tap" (~200ms for double tap in total). However no matter if it's 20 or 200ms, I honestly doubt that anyone would notice that you want to use dodge.

BTW: from what I can see (cl_input.c) Trem already saves timestamps/durations of last event.

[Conzul]

I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second...

To be fair, two hits in 10ms is much easier than three in 15ms or four in 20ms.
To be doubly fair, I don't think that one tenth of a second (that is an INCREDIBLY tiny amount of time) is enough time for any alien player to notice the incredibly slight movement change and effectively react, unless their twitch reflex is brilliant.

An experienced alien - once warmed up - could do it. But suit yourselves. Of course, we couldn't know in time to hit them before they dodged, but we could align ourselves (as goons?) to where they will land, and be in a better position for an accurate pounce.

[StevenM]

this arguement is pointless.

[Demolution]

I was merely pointing out a mistake, and contributing nothing to this thread, but hey, kudos to you for finding way to argue my post.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Oops D: it's more like 50-150 ms. But still, I don't think it will make a difference.

[Silver]

I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second...

To be fair, two hits in 10ms is much easier than three in 15ms or four in 20ms.
To be doubly fair, I don't think that one tenth of a second (that is an INCREDIBLY tiny amount of time) is enough time for any alien player to notice the incredibly slight movement change and effectively react, unless their twitch reflex is brilliant.

An experienced alien - once warmed up - could do it. But suit yourselves. Of course, we couldn't know in time to hit them before they dodged, but we could align ourselves (as goons?) to where they will land, and be in a better position for an accurate pounce.

Chances are with the double tap speed, they'd already be in the dodge before you'd notice the lag of their movement.  Re-adjusting a pounce to that wouldn't be easy.  Not to mention you could start the double tap for the other dodge as you were landing, (dodge backwards or the opposite or the same way) and then you'd be pretty much unpredictable completely at that point.  If you do the first tap right as you land you shouldn't move at all so the second tap that starts the dodge will be the only movement seen, which by then is too late.  Devilking and I have tested out the double tap, it's almost impossible to keep up with.  It's going to take you at at least 4/10ths of a second to transmit that information to your brain, then you have to process it, then you have to react to it.  No experienced player is going to do it outside of luck, just like current dodge works.

No matter how pro you are, you can't beat human reaction time.  There are limits to humanity you know.

[Conzul]

I can't jam the same key more than 10 seconds in a single second...

To be fair, two hits in 10ms is much easier than three in 15ms or four in 20ms.
To be doubly fair, I don't think that one tenth of a second (that is an INCREDIBLY tiny amount of time) is enough time for any alien player to notice the incredibly slight movement change and effectively react, unless their twitch reflex is brilliant.

An experienced alien - once warmed up - could do it. But suit yourselves. Of course, we couldn't know in time to hit them before they dodged, but we could align ourselves (as goons?) to where they will land, and be in a better position for an accurate pounce.

Chances are with the double tap speed, they'd already be in the dodge before you'd notice the lag of their movement.  Re-adjusting a pounce to that wouldn't be easy.  Not to mention you could start the double tap for the other dodge as you were landing, (dodge backwards or the opposite or the same way) and then you'd be pretty much unpredictable completely at that point.  If you do the first tap right as you land you shouldn't move at all so the second tap that starts the dodge will be the only movement seen, which by then is too late.  Devilking and I have tested out the double tap, it's almost impossible to keep up with.  It's going to take you at at least 4/10ths of a second to transmit that information to your brain, then you have to process it, then you have to react to it.  No experienced player is going to do it outside of luck, just like current dodge works.

No matter how pro you are, you can't beat human reaction time.  There are limits to humanity you know.

You could take mind altering drugs....
If you think it's not a concern, then so be it.

[Bubba_the_shy]

So... any progress?

[Liskey]

I think that if you want to double-tap to dodge, the delay while you are double tapping will tell experienced alien players both:
That you are going to dodge,
And in which direction you are going to dodge.

Huh?  The first tap is a movement (i.e. dancing with no dodge at all).  How could a player, or even an AI with millisecond resolution, predict whether a second tap in the same direction or a first tap in a different direction will follow the key-up event from the first tap?

Admittedly a modifier could initiate a dodge faster than doubletapping.

We should play tremulous with midi keyboards, where keypress speed or pressure could signal player speed.

[Conzul]

I think that if you want to double-tap to dodge, the delay while you are double tapping will tell experienced alien players both:
That you are going to dodge,
And in which direction you are going to dodge.

Huh?  The first tap is a movement (i.e. dancing with no dodge at all).  How could a player, or even an AI with millisecond resolution, predict whether a second tap in the same direction or a first tap in a different direction will follow the key-up event from the first tap?

Admittedly a modifier could initiate a dodge faster than doubletapping.

We should play tremulous with midi keyboards, where keypress speed or pressure could signal player speed.

I was probably exaggerating earlier, but when you play as much Trem as I do, you begin to see patterns. Things get slower for you, I'm sure you're familiar with what I'm talking about.