I am curious...

[David]

Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?

If Jimmy has 100 crap toys, and Johnny has 2 awesome ones, then Jimmy would accuse Johnny of jealousy to hide his own feelings of inadequacy.

[Thorn]

WRONG ANSWER.

[lucifer666s8n]

Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?

If Jimmy has 100 crap toys, and Johnny has 2 awesome ones, then Jimmy would accuse Johnny of jealousy to hide his own feelings of inadequacy.

Thats an even better analogy... You guys have hundreds of crap servers and we have 2 awesome ones... Thanks for reminding me of that!!

And by the way, that is not anything helpful to the discussion... Just picking apart my nalogy...

[A Spork]

I would strongly disagree with that.
That's opinion, not fact(you've been screaming that throughout this thread, so i thought I'd throw it back at you.)

[lucifer666s8n]

I would strongly disagree with that.
That's opinion, not fact(you've been screaming that throughout this thread, so i thought I'd throw it back at you.)

The only point on that small issue that I want to get accross is this.... Someone asked me to explain why I thought jealousy was an issue... I explained, and instead of being dispoven someone picked apart my analogy and twisted it.. So I did the same in reverse... That all Mr. Spork

[A Spork]

Popular != Good.
Posting that its popular isn't helping your cause at all.
Miley Cyrus is Popular, and she sucks.

[_Equilibrium_]

I've played in the X server before, and I can't say I like it. I don't have a problem with it in itself, but like others have said, it should be more clear to players that it is heavily modded. Not claiming it's not vanilla means nothing unless you actually state it somewhere clearly visible to all players. I've seen quite a few players come on a normal server and start running out with a blaster repeatedly.

I don't mind if a player tries your mod and decides he or she likes it more than vanilla trem. But I really feel players should start with vanilla before they try other flavors. I am sure many of your regulars AND new players started with the X server before trying a normal one. To someone who knows normal gameplay, saying "wtf" when they try the X mod is quite reasonable, but it does NOT work the other way around. An X server regular who tries a normal server and says "wtf" is just showing his ignorance of how the game was designed to be.

[janev]

[-omitted - Of what? I am not jealous of people who play world of warcraft... ]why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.

Nice way to phrase a question with an attack there...  The only reason I suggest the existence of jealousy is the fact that our server is more successful than all the others, our game play seems to appeal to more people, than you guys are willing to admit... and we are attacked more than ANY other server that I have noticed. From just looking at the railing against us, it does appear as jealousy...

Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?

I am familiar with the concept of jealousy, thank you. That was actually an attack phrased as a question, there was no need to break it down into simplified examples for me. I appreciate the gesture though. 

The only point on that small issue that I want to get accross is this.... Someone asked me to explain why I thought jealousy was an issue... I explained, and instead of being dispoven someone picked apart my analogy and twisted it.. So I did the same in reverse... That all Mr. Spork

You were asked a rhetorical question, we'll call it a misunderstanding and leave little Jimmy and Johnny out of this, lest we reach the pedo-point early. As for disproving an emotion, quick, someone whip out the jealousy meter! You were given several reasons people don't like your server... You can either chalk them up to jealousy or accept them as valid criticisms and weigh them as such before discarding them.

disclosure: I'm not affiliated with any server and have very little riding on the life or death of tremulous
Lets not forget though:

[lucifer666s8n]

You can either chalk them up to jealousy or accept them as valid criticisms and weigh them as such before discarding them.

Good point...  The picture was hilarious... Awesome...

Miley Cyrus is Popular, and she sucks.

Yes she does suck....worse than GPP...


So you guys claim if we had something stated on our loading screen you would have no problem with us? .......... Forgive me if I fail to believe you... Besides, who even bothers to check for such things... lol {Im not sure if the devs would be willing to go that far... Im not a dev so I cant say...}

But if that were to happen then you guys should do the same thing (I.E. Ridicule, attack, smear, ask to have it removed from the master list etc) to every other server that is modded in any way from Vanilla trem... Whats good for the goose ios good for the gander...

I am sure many of your regulars AND new players started with the X server before trying a normal one.

Um... The exact numbers I do not know... But it would be interesting to find out...

[A Spork]

"who even checks for those things"

you do know what the mote is right? It's the message that pops up when you enter the server.

And how do you know gpp sucks? You said yourself you never played it.


You say we're ridiculing, smearing, etc? You're doing the exact same thing.

You, sir, are an obnoxious hypocritical moron who will not listen to reason.
Go sit on a tack.

Yours truly,
Spork.

[lucifer666s8n]

You, sir, are an obnoxious hypocritical moron who will not listen to reason.

Obnoxious...possibly...listen to reason.... Well, I agree about the mote screen idea... But the other stuff is iffy.... Ya sure I dont listen at all...

And how do you know gpp sucks? You said yourself you never played it.

I have stated that I played it before... Search is your friend.....

[ghostshell]

I dont mean to be obvious but FWIW the X server is the most popular 1.1 server because Dretch*Storm moved to 1.2 

Now, if you want to talk about the most popular 1.2 server, then that's another thread 

[HUMAHATER]

i couldn't help but point this out....  if X server were to take away the mods, and try to conform to all of the vanilla servers,and the "classic" trem play. do you really think we would stay as popular as we are? i don't understand why everyone from this site is so direct and forward on being mean and rude to us X admins/players?!?!?! 

i am a good example here:  as i sit, i have been playing X for close to 2 1/2 yrs now have donated a lot of money, and time to help the "noobs" on the server(they come in, if i don't recognize them i ask if they need help!!!(i am(and a lot more are) all about the service to our players) we are popular because we try, we try to make it enjoyable for all the players who step foot in our server...

i dont know much about computers or the mods!  but i do know this... when my friend Donskov told me about this game over 2yrs ago, the very first server i looked at was X. not because it was at the top (i actually found it at the bottom of the list),  it was because there was 20+ people in there(compared to 5-10 in others!)  i have tried playing the vanilla servers, and i really dont see what all you people in the boring, dull, not exciting world of regular trem like so much about it!  if X server was not there i guarantee i would have never stuck around!... and im sure i speak for alot of the X players on that!
i am not bashing on the normal game play, just stating that i have played the vanilla way, but i like the modded way better!
and just to let all you know that say players rage quit and never come back to trem because of Xserverx is very wrong!  i have ragequit myself.... but it wasnt from x it was from the vanilla servers! and it wasn't because of the game play! it was because the arrogant nature of how some players treated me when i didnt know what i was doing on a regular server!  here at X server we strive to treat all the players with the same respect as we treat our friends and family!<-----  maybe thats why we are ranked #1???  ohh wait... nope its because were placed at the top of the server list, right? lol wrong! like i said, i found it because of the # of players. not ping not where its placed, not the name, not the mod!... the # of players!    
 thanks for listening HUMA out----->

[lucifer666s8n]

Thanks HUMA for the post....

dont mean to be obvious but FWIW the X server is the most popular 1.1 server because Dretch*Storm moved to 1.2 

We were popular before that.... But thanks for the thought....

[DraZiLoX]

X servers SUCKS?

Yes, all xserverx servers sucks.

[lucifer666s8n]

Wheres a Grammar nazi when you need one?

Thanks Drazilox for the wonderful show of brilliance you have brought to this discussion....

[DraZiLoX]

My pleasure!

[UniqPhoeniX]

I guess the reason ppl hate X so much is because it is BY FAR the most modded and most different from vanilla, and cuz they use the boxes to get to top of list, thus taking a bunch of newbies and turning them into noobs. Players that have played only on X and come to other servers really don't have a clue how to play, for example using the worst weapons possible (blaster/battlegranger/luci to defend/psaw to kill aliens). I took another look at X, here's what no experienced player will like in a serious game: infinite stamina, super jump, 10m basi grab range, 2 snipe kill RC??? RC zaps everything in LoS with uber damage (what happened to hopping RC?), respawn rate of ~1 sec, etc. Basically you have removed everything that used to require skill/tactics, and then made the previously weak things some of the strongest for their price, so everyone would try to use those on other servers (and fail/feed miserably). And then you come to these forums where many are experienced players and ask why they don't like it. The only things still similar to trem are class/weapon/buildable names/models. You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.

[commander scrooge]

*cough* May I quote from silver?

"We have that issue of the pollacks not having 1.2 clients though.  They don't read the MOTD either trust me."

You think X server 'nubs' will read the MOTD?

You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.

What community? last I checked this was a dog-eat-dog forum, correct me if I'm wrong.  Tremulous is open source so it is begging for 'mods', the ones who made it open source have split "the community", not us.

2 snipe kill RC???

I remember when it was 1 snipe kills RC      the nubs stand the weak RC and win with out hopping the RC.

This will go on till some one decides to lock it, vanilla vs modded, the war that never ends, NEVAR.

[_Equilibrium_]

I think the biggest problem is that it is much harder for someone who starts in the X server to get used to vanilla trem, compared to a vanilla trem player trying out the X server. I haven't played in the X server for a while (especially since I really only play GPP now), but from what I remember, pretty much all alien classes and human weapons are modded so that they can be used effectively in combat. A vanilla trem player going to the X server would probably start by playing how he knows the game originally, and learns the modifications to along the way. However, X players trying a vanilla server often start off with a blaster and such, causing his/her teammates to be annoyed.

[KamikOzzy]

Thats an even better analogy... You guys have hundreds of crap servers and we have 2 awesome ones... Thanks for reminding me of that!!

And you guys have hundreds of shitty players and they have a few select amazing ones. Suck it.

[F50]

You think X server 'nubs' will read the MOTD?

It doesn't matter as long as X server does due diligence. I daresay that is not the case today.

You are not making Trem more popular, you have just split the community.

What community? last I checked this was a dog-eat-dog forum, correct me if I'm wrong.  Tremulous is open source so it is begging for 'mods', the ones who made it open source have split "the community", not us.

Definition of dog-eat-dog from wiktionary: "Describes a business or other set of circumstances where people have to act with no consideration for other people if they are to succeed." If I am right, this entire thread is about consideration for others. If you think that the fact that a project is open source is begging to have a split community then, well, what can I do but leave you to yourself. From my understanding, the GPL (one of many open source licenses) is about a respect for information and for sharing information. Do you really think that little about community? Personally I think the very idea of dog-eat-dog is unethical, but I digress. I certainly hope you do not intend to succeed here, if you care so little of others.

i couldn't help but point this out....  if X server were to take away the mods, and try to conform to all of the vanilla servers,and the "classic" trem play. do you really think we would stay as popular as we are? i don't understand why everyone from this site is so direct and forward on being mean and rude to us X admins/players?!?!?!

Would you say that I am being disrespectful in my opinion of your server? Of course X should not try to conform to the vanilla standard. I *do* expect X to be forthright about what they are doing (I believe players are being confused about what actually is vanilla and that X is doing nothing to correct that confusion, hence the motd request), not be deceitful (zero...), and to not abuse the system (more zeros).

it wasn't because of the game play! it was because the arrogant nature of how some players treated me when i didnt know what i was doing on a regular server!

My first game that I joined I was votekicked without explanation upon introducing myself as a newbie. So yes, sometimes people are not treated well, and I doubt many people here condone that kind of behavior (or some of the flaming in this thread for that matter).

Note: If you expect respect, and luci expects a certain degree of respect, and I as well...this is anecdotal evidence that this is not meant to be dog-eat dog as stated by commander scrooge.

So you guys claim if we had something stated on our loading screen you would have no problem with us? .......... Forgive me if I fail to believe you...

I would have no problem with you as a matter of principle. Having played a bit more, I think X gameplay is also poor, and I guess you could go so far as to call that a "problem". But first and foremost I think there are other problems (see the expectations above). If those problems are solved, I would defend X's position as a valid mod, with poor gameplay.

Besides, who even bothers to check for such things... lol

Idk, at least X would be doing its due dilligence.

But if that were to happen then you guys should do the same thing to every other server that is modded in any way from Vanilla trem... Whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

Indeed, Every server that abuses sorting in this manner should be removed from the master list (IMO, though its not likely to happen because in the next version that simply isn't going to be possible). Every mod that misinforms its players like this is worthy of disdain (Note that ubp's changes are right in the name, and wonderland's are in the motd). Its just that X server also has bad gameplay and a decently-sized playerbase that makes it such a prime target for ridicule, ridicule that would (rightfully) not be directed towards a lesser server.

[Colynn']

Let's finish this thread (at least for me) : lucifer would rather go to a Miley Cyrus concert instead of playing on a good Tremulous server.

[HUMAHATER]

just adding from what i put up there /\ ...  another great thing we do is, we take everything the community has to offer, ideas of, graphics, maps, mods, ect! Every and all player can give us ideas on different ways of play, then we have a vote. figure out, and go for the happy medium! yes it is a split community. but, it doesn't have to be though!  if you guys just lightin up on us a bit we CAN all get along...

 i think soon i have to see what 1.2 is all about, you guys are really really serious and make it sound great! so i want to try it soon!  if you see this name--->HUMAHATER you will probably kick me just because, but i hope you don't and give me a shot!;) 
i just dont like slow game play thats probably why im so involved with X. but im defiantly always up for a new challenge!  hope to see some of you guys ingame soon!

[F50]

if you see this name--->HUMAHATER you will probably kick me just because, but i hope you don't and give me a shot!;)  

I sure hope not, and do complain if you are.

i just dont like slow game play thats probably why im so involved with X. but im defiantly always up for a new challenge!  hope to see some of you guys ingame soon!

I don't know but I find X (or at least the ubiquitous treecannon) slow. Sure humans and their weapons are slower physically, but the actual combat is faster because of this because the human can't strafejump quite so fast. The bases are weaker too, so most games end before SD. Rushing also takes more teamwork and less preparation.

Oh for goodness sake, why on X you have to killwhore so much to get basebusting weaponry I'll never know.

[lucifer666s8n]

Not sure as too the exact reasoning for the gameplay choices they have implemented there, but they seem to work quite well...

As far as treecannon goes, well, that map is kinda weird anyway lol

As far as slow gameplay, I was on a GPP stock game play server last night for about 20-30 minutes... I almost fell asleep... It is funny you talk about people just running out with a blaster... Well, I guess camping is a wonderful trem tactic... At least thats all they were doing...

The same tactics of Humans camp and aliens attack from X is what I saw on the GPP server... And to tell you the truth, it was horrible...

[Asvarox]

As far as slow gameplay, I was on a GPP stock game play server last night for about 20-30 minutes... I almost fell asleep...

Try it in daytime then.

I remember playing on X for an hour. That was terrible. The message "XXXX launched the nuke" and you had to runaway as fast as possible because this crap could one hit you in humans red room while XXXX guy was in aliens default. Humans had base there, on the platform opposite to aliens default, they kept camping and camping there, as well as aliens whose base was in window. Don't remember now how that ended and I don't remember the second game, but I know that was enough to say that server sucks balls thus confirm my initial judgment.

The same tactics of Humans camp and aliens attack from X is what I saw on the GPP server... And to tell you the truth, it was horrible...

That's what happens when you use tactics from retarded server in normal server. In "basic" GPP game, aliens and humans are both able to dominate the map (make other team camp/defend) or fight for domination. Which is exciting and fun, until you have a team willing to fight.

There's also no point in discussing about gameplay, because everyone has his own taste, and saying "you are moron because you like X/GPP/1.1 gameplay" is as retarded as X gameplay.

[DULCIMER CANNON]

Hey, just thought that I would also make a comment here.

First, I would like to mention that I'm an X moderator and developer (don't hate on me too much : P). The first server I played wasn't X though, but EBSF (and then some random vanilla servers), and I still play vanilla servers quite often.

I'd also like to mention that I make games for a living, and I know that imbalance in gameplay across servers can seriously mess up the community. We are fully guilty of messing up the community like that, and I sincerely apologize. There are 2 things I would like to mention along those lines though to help clear our name a little bit. 1 is, whenever someone comes onto X and says "Hey, I'm new to trem!" or some such thing along those lines, the 2 most common phrases you will here from the admins are "Welcome to the servers!" and "You might want to play some vanila servers for a little while" (in which case the admin usually then has a several minute convo with the player explaining the difference between modded servers and vanilla servers). We want the tremulous community to do good as well. The second thing that I'd like to mention, is, as most of you probably know, we recently switched server owners, and along with that got some new devs and what not. Right now we are concentrating on molding the gameplay a bit better, however once we feel the QVM is a bit more stable, and the gameplay is more balanced, we would love to make this modded server a 'proper' modded server, and try to make it a bit more clear that the X server is a mod. Please, if you have suggestions on how we can make the community happier with us, or help make the mod more proper, tell us ( http://xserverx.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25 )!

Some of our players are not good players, and hurt the tremulous community, which also hurts the X community. For this, I apologize, however, as much as we do have some bad players with bad attitudes, we also have some highly respected players, and have produced from the ground up, some very respected players. Like I said, we recently switched owners, and the admins have been reworking the rules, the devs have been reworking the commands, and we hope that as we change this, we wind up producing more respectable players on the server.

The power of any open source game winds up being the community, and we would really like to get you guys happy with us, improve our mod, and improve our players. Please, if you have any suggestions, suggest them to us!

[WiKi]

X has become the top server. But compared to Tremulous in its prime when BG, and BB where around X was not the top. So gj to being the top server in a version of tremulous where it is dying everyday. congrats it takes alot!

[mooseberry]

I hate x server because the game requires no skill, and is filled with mostly young children who have no idea how to play, communicate, or act intelligent. The sucking away new players is annoying as well, with the stupid box spam, but x servers are not the only that does this. I think many 1.1 servers that I see are on a similar level with X server in terms of being filled with idiots, and this entire thread is pretty stupid. I don't see what you hope to accomplish with this.