Tutorial Aids

[Conzul]

Right now the "tutorial mode" consists of some lame text on the left side of the screen giving the most basic of instructions. I have some ideas to pimp it.

~~ HIT AIDS Human
      Many FPS games have a small indicator near the gunsight that lights up briefly when you accomplish a hit on the enemy, or a small tone that plays. Obviously, this would be annoying in normal gameplay, but if tutorial mode was switched on, it would be helpful to someone who wanted to gauge themselves or try out a new weapon.

~~ POUNCE AID Alien
      Pounce is difficult to master, taking much time and practice to learn without any real help from tutorial mode or the game. In my early days all the help I got from other players was "point, shoot, pray". A good aid in this area would be a large crosshair that travels on the ground and shows where you will land when the pounce is over. It would have to adjust for movement changes you do in the air, but this was something I missed and wished I could have had aid me when I started tremulous.

~~ BUILD AIDS Alien
      You all know how nOObs (and we ourselves, back in the day) go and build a tube or something way out in the middle of an empty room or corridor, and feel proud of it. However, the way Tremulous works isn't readily apparent, and they don't know they are committing a faux-pas. I suggest that a selected buildable (in tutorial mode, obviously) has more than just red for no and green for yes, but actually have a variation of color based on how it rates its build location. Red is unbuildable, yellow say if it detects that it's out in the open and really vulnerable, going up to green and eventually blue if you build it near good and better cover.

What say? and other ideas....

EDIT: BEFORE YOU GO saying that a full written tutorial would be better, I know that. I'm talking about something accessible, so new players don't have to hunt for it as much (that's why the existing "tutorial mode" is here in the first place).

[UniqPhoeniX]

IMO that shouldn't be put into what is currently tutorial mode. What is really needed is a full tutorial that tells all the basics, lets you try any weapons and shows how to properly build.
The hit aid probably won't help newbies who buy luci with no armor, as they never get to fire it near an alien, and even if they did, they won't know how much damage that did, nor which weapons to use in which situation.
The pounce aid is IMO not needed once you understand you need to aim slightly up and charge up the pounce, that you can start charging the next one before landing the first, and just try to move through map with it for a while. Using some crosshair on the ground is way too slow to be usable in a real game, you need to actually get a feel for it yourself. What is really needed is a (preferably moving) target that you can try to pounce without risking your brand new goon (and maybe a simple 'race' mode). Same for sniping.
Automatically detecting how good a buildable placement is is not feasible to implement, as a buildable in a specific position can be good or bad depending on which side your base is and which side it is supposed to cover, whether other defences are already covering that entrance/the rest of the base, etc. There is simply too much to take into account, and too many things newbies need to learn.
It would probably be much easier to learn through a dedicated tutorial mode where you can't interrupt a real game nor can the game interrupt your learning.

[Conzul]

IMO that shouldn't be put into what is currently tutorial mode. What is really needed is a full tutorial that tells all the basics, lets you try any weapons and shows how to properly build.
The hit aid probably won't help newbies who buy luci with no armor, as they never get to fire it near an alien, and even if they did, they won't know how much damage that did, nor which weapons to use in which situation.
The pounce aid is IMO not needed once you understand you need to aim slightly up and charge up the pounce, that you can start charging the next one before landing the first, and just try to move through map with it for a while. Using some crosshair on the ground is way too slow to be usable in a real game, you need to actually get a feel for it yourself. What is really needed is a (preferably moving) target that you can try to pounce without risking your brand new goon (and maybe a simple 'race' mode). Same for sniping.
Automatically detecting how good a buildable placement is is not feasible to implement, as a buildable in a specific position can be good or bad depending on which side your base is and which side it is supposed to cover, whether other defences are already covering that entrance/the rest of the base, etc. There is simply too much to take into account, and too many things newbies need to learn.
It would probably be much easier to learn through a dedicated tutorial mode where you can't interrupt a real game nor can the game interrupt your learning.

I disagree.

    

IMO that shouldn't be put into what is currently tutorial mode. What is really needed is a full tutorial that tells all the basics, lets you try any weapons and shows how to properly build.
The hit aid probably won't help newbies who buy luci with no armor, as they never get to fire it near an alien, and even if they did, they won't know how much damage that did, nor which weapons to use in which situation.

Who said anything about Luci? Why shouldn't it (hit tone) be put into tutorial mode? Duh we need a full tutorial that tells all the basics. With Luci you cited a highly specific occurrence, where did that come from? Who's to say a hit tone wouldn't help with say, the rifle?

The pounce aid is IMO not needed once you understand you need to aim slightly up and charge up the pounce, that you can start charging the next one before landing the first, and just try to move through map with it for a while. Using some crosshair on the ground is way too slow to be usable in a real game, you need to actually get a feel for it yourself. What is really needed is a (preferably moving) target that you can try to pounce without risking your brand new goon (and maybe a simple 'race' mode). Same for sniping.

Not to be rude but that IS your opinion. A traveling crosshair would not hurt, it could only help. What makes you say it would be slow? Just cus you or the people you know couldn't write it doesn't mean it's not doable.

Automatically detecting how good a buildable placement is is not feasible to implement, as a buildable in a specific position can be good or bad depending on which side your base is and which side it is supposed to cover, whether other defences are already covering that entrance/the rest of the base, etc. There is simply too much to take into account, and too many things newbies need to learn.
It would probably be much easier to learn through a dedicated tutorial mode where you can't interrupt a real game nor can the game interrupt your learning.

Of course, Duh, and all that. But I disagree about how it would be too hard to implement. All that needs to be known is how much map geometry is within X distance from the (ex.) tube, more means that the tube is near a bunch of angles or in a dip or something, which is always better than just out in the middle. Tutorial is not meant to be a fix all strategy-perfect guide, just a nudge in the right direction.

Lol I sound like an asshole   Thank you, your feedback is valuable to me. 

[UniqPhoeniX]

Yes, it might help with rifle/lasgun, maybe chaingun. Tho the luci was just 1 example, I don't think it will help with most weapons newbies really need help with, nor the part they most need help with (which weapon for what), or in a situation where you just don't have time to pay attention to it. With some weapons like saw/shotty/md/luci you already get a very good idea of when you hit/miss.

For pounce: using some crosshair on ground is extremely slow. If you stop for even a second to aim your pounces while escaping, you are as good as dead. What players need is understanding how pounce works, and then just practice. In some cases you can't see the surface you are going to land on anyway. Yes, it is doable, yes it wouldn't hurt, but it is NOT worth the effort. How many times do you really need it anyway before you can estimate where you will land? 5-10? Less then 5? How much easier does it make it to learn pouncing?

For building: it doesn't matter how much map geometry is near a tube (some good tubes are in the middle of a plain wall/ceiling), and amount of geometry also depends a lot on the map. What matters is how much area it covers, whether there is any point in covering that area, how far it can be hit from while remaining outside the base. The blueprint IMO only needs to show whether there is room to build there and whether it is in power range. If a proper tutorial mode was ever made, then implementing this would also not be worth the effort. Except maybe for making bots build.

[Conzul]

For pounce: using some crosshair on ground is extremely slow. If you stop for even a second to aim your pounces while escaping, you are as good as dead. What players need is understanding how pounce works, and then just practice. In some cases you can't see the surface you are going to land on anyway. Yes, it is doable, yes it wouldn't hurt, but it is NOT worth the effort. How many times do you really need it anyway before you can estimate where you will land? 5-10? Less then 5? How much easier does it make it to learn pouncing?

Ooooooh I see what you mean. The crosshair would not be for before you pounced, only as a reference of where to land once we have pounced (because you can slightly change direction once you have lifted off). Yeah it would be useless in pounce setup. It would be useful to see where our damage will go if you turn a certain way as you land/impact.

I know the implications of my 3rd point are big/hard to take into account. I wasn't really asking for a doability assesment, rather concept validity.
I still don't see eye-to-eye with you on the other two points, but now I get what ur saying about pounce.

Anyone else?

[Meisseli]

Urban Terror has a really good tutorial and I think the idea should be stolen to Tremulous. When you play the game for the first time, there's a neat demo showing how to play which really cuts the time getting into the game. Also there's a field where you put your nickname, so we could avoid those annoying UnnamedPlayers too.

How about it, make a tutorial like this to Tremulous? What should be covered?

[F50]

For humans:

Firstly, how to move, dodge (not dancing, just how the dodge command works), shoot, buy weapons, use medkit, egg hitboxes, how poison effects you, and how to win/loose a game. The next most important thing to demo IMO is to explain basic concepts of building, since poor building is a great way to make folks dislike you.

For aliens:

How to move, wallwalk, heal (and what effects healing speed), use poison, and the importance of locational damage (headshots!). Then, if possible (and in a separate demo), basic concepts of building which should cover the facts that trappers have a conical range, don't build them on the floor, while tubes have a spherical range, don't build them on the ceiling.


Note: MG tried this at one point, though it didn't really get off of the ground. This isn't a particularly simple task, and I doubt it will work well unless you have all of the onscreen messages scripted before trying to make the demo.

[UniqPhoeniX]

All that is needed is tools so the community can make the tutorials themselves with a script file. Basically displaying messages, waiting for the player to complete a task, loading/changing layout mid-game, spawning a beacon/bot, detecting the player's equipment, location and what buildings are built, a way to skip/repeat a part of the tutorial, perhaps teleporting the player. Also teach them how to open console

[Meisseli]

For humans:

Firstly, how to move, dodge (not dancing, just how the dodge command works), shoot, buy weapons, use medkit, egg hitboxes, how poison effects you, and how to win/loose a game. The next most important thing to demo IMO is to explain basic concepts of building, since poor building is a great way to make folks dislike you.

For aliens:

How to move, wallwalk, heal (and what effects healing speed), use poison, and the importance of locational damage (headshots!). Then, if possible (and in a separate demo), basic concepts of building which should cover the facts that trappers have a conical range, don't build them on the floor, while tubes have a spherical range, don't build them on the ceiling.


Note: MG tried this at one point, though it didn't really get off of the ground. This isn't a particularly simple task, and I doubt it will work well unless you have all of the onscreen messages scripted before trying to make the demo.

Of course there should be a script that does /cp messages like in the Urban Terror tutorial. That is a trivial task.