Painsaw is overpowered!

[David]

I don't have a T1 (crappy DSL) and play on wifi, normally transatlantic, and I've never seen it :s.

[Meisseli]

The only problem I find with painsaw is perhaps killing maras. That's surprisingly easy for painsaws nowadays.

Other than that, a goon or a rant kills it in no time unless one does something stupid while fighting one (like charging a pounce too long).

I like the new painsaw because you have to pay as much attention while fighting it as other weapons. Killing one with a dretch is sometimes even a challenge.

But unlagged doesn't keep the "range" constant but I guess you just need to live with it.

[BlackX32]

Me too, haven't seen that type "lag field".

Could someone post vid/demo/something like that, where this occur? I'm not an expert, nor don't got good knowledge about internet data transfer, but might it be weak internet connection...?

My internet connection is very strong, unless somebody in working on the internet outside or whatever, and even on servers where my ping is very low, i still experiance it just a bit. not much though. on regular ping it's not too bad once you get used to it. sometimes i don't get it at all when i'm right next to a saw. also has to do with something about the other person's conection maybey?

[Crava_Loft]

[deleted]

[jm82792]

We are very balanced as it is,
I'd love some change to make trem more fresh but going that far is too far.

[swamp-cecil]

the painsaw, is an intessting weapon and uses close range. however, even if they have a  with a pain saw, a rant can destry them. lets see, hmmm

acid tubes? no
barricade? yes, but they are rarely used
hive? on the celling
OM? try rushing the om, you need to say down all else
trapper? it traps you.

well, probably just make it a little more expencive like 250.

learn to dodge as an alien, attack at angles.

true!

dretch, highly ineffective and if you think ANYTHING is overpowered as a dretch, you remember, its like a rifle to a rant.
bassy, just one evo. dont attack stonger targets. if u can, gas.
marruder, lighting.
dragoon, snipe and pounce at them then poounce away then keep doing this
rant, they cook scrambed bsuiters with a side of any weapon

[freezway]

Psaw is way OP, its 100 and a stage one weapon. aliens suck in s1. It takes down the OM in like 7 seconds.

[superspirality]

Psaw is way OP, its 100 and a stage one weapon. aliens suck in s1. It takes down the OM in like 7 seconds.

A dretch looking at the ceiling takes a s1 psaw in 1 second. Objections?

[NOOB]

I agree that painsaw is overpowered and it is not themy too because humans are range class. Best would be to get it removed and replaced with some antibuilding range weapon. I suggest something like bfg9000.

1. Make high damage but not area damage. It should be able to 2 shot ko OM.
2. very low on ammo - lets say 5 or 6
3. Needs 3 seconds to shoot projectile, so it would be usable only on buildings and not aliens
4. some cool feature to make it ppl use instead of lucifer

[Aelita]

That would be significantly more overpowering than painsaw. The psaw is fine right now. It is difficult to properly kill somebody with it, they need to be real dumb or you need to be real good. Base-wise, it's your team's fault for sucking at building/not defending the base.

And 3 second delay isn't going to be shit. Takes that long to get off a decent luci shot..

[superspirality]

No psaw changes please.
I'm pretty sure everyone including me likes the psaw as it is.
BTW when it's really overpowered is when a good player takes it, Saliva manages to kill maras with it.

[NOOB]

If we can not have antibuilding range weapon without changing game balance then make psaw at least more expensive because is now dirty cheap and used for suicidal base attacks. What about 250 credits?

Or make it use energy. This has been suggested several times and i think its pretty good point.

[zybork]

I think the painsaw is just perfect as it is.

Mind that in the hands of a skilled player, every weapon is overpowered, I regularly rifle down noobish goons, so what? The lag-problem has to do with the network-engine, and not with the weapon.

It is of no use against trappers or ceiling-eggs, and if you are so close to a goon or a tyrant that you can hit them, they also can hit you, so what's your point? I also do not fear even skilled players with a painsaw when dretch or marauder, because to get me, they have to hit me, and they usually dont.

• leave as is

[Fuego]

i get a big grim on my face when i see a human with a psaw. they are easy to maneuver around and kill. maras work the best and basi's the worst ( i think) because you can just hit and bounce off of them. with a basi you stand in 1 spot with 60 or 75 hp while they saw you.
I do see what you are saying about them getting behind the om and kill it but dont see why they should be changes at all.

[commander scrooge]

Giving the painsaw ammo/energy ruins the idea behind it, a cheep, hard to use, last minute weapon.  When you have 5 rants flooding your base you can buy an el cheep-o saw and repel them, ofc, you gotta be smart about it or else they just maul you.  Taking the saw on a solo mission with equally skilled aliens is suicide.  The saw is like a basilisk, if you don't know how to use it its useless, if you know how to use it its deadly, and yet both are cheep.

Psaw is way OP, its 100 and a stage one weapon. aliens suck in s1. It takes down the OM in like 7 seconds.

Protect your OM. . .

[Conzul]

Protect your OM. . .

Sophist.
The aliens have no way of bringing down the RC in seven seconds @the cheapness and stage of the Psaw. Especially if they are Protecting their RC.....

[F50]

All of that is sophistry! Tremulous is an asymmetrical game. One side having a particular ability/strategy has completely nothing to do with the other side having access to a similar ability/strategy. To argue that a particular tactic/weapon is overpowered/underpowered you must show either how it makes other tactics/weapons irrelevant (as meisseli has done with the defense computer) or how it ruins *overall* balance.

[zybork]

The saw is like a basilisk, if you don't know how to use it its useless, if you know how to use it its deadly, and yet both are cheep.

Couldn't agree more.

[jez]

All of that is sophistry! Tremulous is an asymmetrical game. One side having a particular ability/strategy has completely nothing to do with the other side having access to a similar ability/strategy. To argue that a particular tactic/weapon is overpowered/underpowered you must show either how it makes other tactics/weapons irrelevant (as meisseli has done with the defense computer) or how it ruins *overall* balance.

That's only garanteed to work for gaping holes in the gameplay though. Using some intuition is needed for these things, and I'd agree that 100cr feels a bit low.

[commander scrooge]

If you made the basilisk 3 evos what are the odds that people will use it?  If I'm gonna buy a saw for 250 creds... I'ud just get a l'gun and put some distance between me and my foe.  If the saw was too good at killing the OM aliens would never win.  A well placed trapper can stop a painsawer in his tracks, a hive next to OM is great insurance, at s1 a couple toobs behind OM should keep them away.  By it self the human reactor is weak, add some turrets, a couple campers, and obviously it will appear invincible, much like the OM would with a well built base and a few aliens to back it up.

[Meisseli]

All of that is sophistry! Tremulous is an asymmetrical game. One side having a particular ability/strategy has completely nothing to do with the other side having access to a similar ability/strategy. To argue that a particular tactic/weapon is overpowered/underpowered you must show either how it makes other tactics/weapons irrelevant (as meisseli has done with the defense computer) or how it ruins *overall* balance.

That's only garanteed to work for gaping holes in the gameplay though. Using some intuition is needed for these things, and I'd agree that 100cr feels a bit low.

But then again the rifle is free.

[jez]

But then again the rifle is free.

Granted, but it is still incapable of pretty much ending the game in 7s.

[Aelita]

Protect your OM. . .

Sophist.
The aliens have no way of bringing down the RC in seven seconds @the cheapness and stage of the Psaw. Especially if they are Protecting their RC.....

Sure there is. Not 7 seconds, but rather fast. RC hopping isn't difficult. You can get a reactor down fast if you coordinate a group sniping, as well.

[Kiwi]

Yeah, after having played more, I think the psaw is fine.

[baybal]

rant is too underpowered. I personally sawed like 3-4 rants within 1 life just by circling and strafing them.

[Conzul]

Protect your OM. . .

Sophist.
The aliens have no way of bringing down the RC in seven seconds @the cheapness and stage of the Psaw. Especially if they are Protecting their RC.....

Sure there is. Not 7 seconds, but rather fast. RC hopping isn't difficult. You can get a reactor down fast if you coordinate a group sniping, as well.

Okay, but that's s2, or hopping with a mara, both of which are significantly more expensive than a 100cr suicide weapon - not to mention more difficult/teamwork req.

rant is too underpowered. I personally sawed like 3-4 rants within 1 life just by circling and strafing them.

+1

[Aelita]

A mara is two evos. I don't see how that's difficult - even a mildly skilled dretch can make 2 kills within a minute or two.

[Meisseli]

I don't also see how it is easy for a painsaw to slip through the whole map and a team of aliens and base defenses - and even more in S1 without helmet - whereas aliens can pretty much jump to the human base at any time, make a few base defences go down and even retreat alive. There's also a lot of teamwork involving saying "Mara rush in 20:00" and just going in with 3 maras.

You're thinking of a game with identical teams. Why should that be an ideal - beats me. I find Trem be a fun game because it isn't one of those games.

[Conzul]

A mara is two evos. I don't see how that's difficult - even a mildly skilled dretch can make 2 kills within a minute or two.

I meant difficult in the sense of using the mara to rc-hop, not about getting the 2 evos.

Also you overestimate the dretch, especially if he's a newcomer into a match where it's already hs2. I hope to help with that a bit....

[Aelita]

Before I took a year's break from Trem and started sucking hardcore in-game, I'd spend 80% of my time simply playing games until HS3, then ending it all with Mara RC hops. Pretty damn fun to hunt down the survivors.

But honestly, the mara is one of the most useful S1 tools the aliens have. Basi is a little too difficult out of the box.