Author Topic: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat  (Read 7520 times)

Conzul

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Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« on: May 07, 2010, 01:44:12 am »
I think the root of the problem with the  :dretch: 's perceived weakness is actually the OP-ness of the standard rifle. If you go 1-on-1 with a rifle, you have twenty-five whole rounds that get sprayed at you as you try to approach, and you only need to intersect with five of them to die. There are not always corners to hide behind, and with helmets you stand much less chance even with corners. Now I know you aren't supposed to go 1v1 in general, but on larger maps this is an inevitability. I would like to suggest that the rifle clip be reduced to 25 rounds and that the reload speed be increased by about 1/3rd. (rifle reload is too long even as it is). You can even allow humans to carry more clips to make up for it. Working together, hummies will still be able to get the better of dretches.
   I think even just a few hours of dedicated testing would show whether this is the fix or not.

Edit: Sorry I spaced out. Rifle has 30 rounds/clip, I thought it was 25 when I posted this. I have edited the previous paragraphs to reflect this. Should now be reduced 30 > 25 rnds/clip

Idea2: The more simple, obvious, and efficacious solution is to lower the value of the dretch from 180 to less than 150. It has been noted that aliens often reach stage 2 sooner than humans (idk if this is true). So, the monetary cost for humans to reach stage 2 should be reduced to reflect the lower income provided by dretches. This is because an s2 human can kill exponentially more dretches than an s1 human, and an s3 human even more than that. What ends up happening is that s2 and s3 humans kill five or so dretches (who don't stand a chance) and they have enough credits to completely rearm and nade spam/etc. Aliens have to work much harder to maintain their evolution level so they don't run dry of evos.

Idea3: While I'm not sure that this would fix any particular problem, I've always thought it would feel right for the dretch to have a stronger strafe (left-right movement) speed. This would increase it's defensive capability without making it more potent as a damage dealer (xcept mebbe at point blank). Plus I think it would even look cooler. w/e

In an unrelated area, I would like to cite that I think that balance is how it is (however that is) because of the (how do I say this...momentum of?) skill of pre-existing alien players. If you were to plop a complete newb alien team vs. a complete newb human team, the humans would probably win hands down.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 05:42:41 pm by Conzul »

_Equilibrium_

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 06:07:52 am »
You do realize that in doing this, you make ALL alien classes better, not just dretch. This wouldn't help balance anything. I can guarantee that.

Meisseli

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 11:52:38 am »
Actually I also think rifle is too good compared to the free cost. It really kills things fast, most of the time faster than the shotgun for example. I wouldn't mind even a cut from 5dmg to 4dmg.

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 03:07:23 pm »
You do realize that in doing this, you make ALL alien classes better, not just dretch. This wouldn't help balance anything. I can guarantee that.
I would like to suggest that the rifle clip be reduced to 20 rounds and that the reload speed be increased by about 1/3rd. (rifle reload is too long even as it is). You can even allow humans to carry more clips to make up for it.

Make follow up weapons cheaper? Like shotty and lasgun.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 04:19:44 pm by Conzul »

CorSair

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 05:36:02 pm »
Or, more special abilities to dretches.

One would be battlesuit latch, causing damage every dretch 'rate of attack' time. However, it has fixed damage. And dretch can't move while latching, but it stays on its position, while battlesuit rotates. Even as it is on his face. Activation happens same way as wallwalk.

Same would be applied to jetpacks too. And latch goes off, when jetpack is turned off. And you could try to turn quickly off wallwalk, and try jump on jettard's head.

Quote from: Conzul
Make follow up weapons cheaper? Like shotty and lasgun.

Make dretch cheaper, it's currently worth 180, is it? put it to 150 or lower.  :P
And getting shotty and las is quite cheap anyway....

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 06:09:54 pm »

Hi CorSair

The "battlesuit latch" move has been suggested under many forms, not with much general appeal.

Make dretch cheaper, it's currently worth 180, is it? put it to 150 or lower.  :P
And getting shotty and las is quite cheap anyway....

I have suggested this many times, no one fucking agrees.


_Equilibrium_

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 10:10:53 pm »
You do realize that in doing this, you make ALL alien classes better, not just dretch. This wouldn't help balance anything. I can guarantee that.
I would like to suggest that the rifle clip be reduced to 20 rounds and that the reload speed be increased by about 1/3rd. (rifle reload is too long even as it is). You can even allow humans to carry more clips to make up for it.

Make follow up weapons cheaper? Like shotty and lasgun.
Most people die or return to base before they run out of clips. Giving someone more clips they will never use doesn't solve anything. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the rifle. I suck with it already as it is.

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 02:03:59 am »
Most people die or return to base before they run out of clips. Giving someone more clips they will never use doesn't solve anything. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the rifle. I suck with it already as it is.

Technically, there isn't anything wrong with the rifle. The problem is with the number of dretches that die early game and fill human wallets due to overvalue. Yeah, giving more clips doesn't necessarily solve anything, but with an increased reload speed (which you omitted from your RE) it would. You suck with rifle? Well let me tell you, there are those who don't. I'm proposing this because it doesn't look like the $value$ of the dretch is going to be reduced to something reasonable.
   When there's a problem that can't be fixed one way, you gotta try another.

_Equilibrium_

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 05:30:21 am »
I didn't respond to the reload speed change because it was another downside, not something that would balance the change of a smaller clip. That's not my issue though. I don't have proper information on balance this phase, but from the rough stats on Tremstats, it looks as if the game is pretty damn balanced. Nerfing the human starting weapon may unbalance the game once again. Besides, from my playing experience, I believe aliens reach S2 quicker than humans in general.

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2010, 05:39:07 am »
I didn't respond to the reload speed change because it was another downside..

?????

_Equilibrium_

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2010, 06:56:32 am »
I didn't respond to the reload speed change because it was another downside..

?????
increasing how long it takes to reload makes rifle worse, does it not?

UniqPhoeniX

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2010, 12:33:59 pm »
'Increased reload speed' not time.

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 02:27:13 pm »
When you increase something's speed, you make it faster. Increasing the reload speed of the rifle would make the reload speed faster, quicker w/e. God you thought I wanted to reduce clip size and make it take longer to reload? LOL no wonder that would be stupid.

Conzul

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 05:43:03 pm »
Edited Original Post with more ideas 'n stuff.

Meisseli

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Re: Yet more ideas to improve dretch combat
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 01:49:21 pm »
Most interesting would be a weaker dretch with a pounce and a high headshot damage but I guess that's not going to happen.