Misconceptions

[FisherP]

Sorry about putting this in feedback, didn't really think it was General, and it is kinda feedback anyway about the communication from the Trem Team.

@David

Oh shut up already.

Yes, your bitter and twisted about this for some bizarre reason.  We get it.  You can stop spamming anti-1.2 tirades in random unrelated threads now.

I'm sorry, but I think you have the wrong idea about me. I'm far from against 1.2, in fact I can't wait for it... but I have to. If you have read and understood anything I've written you will see that I am actually enthusiastic still about the release of 1.2. I have also claimed (and maintain) I don't care how long it takes as long as when it's out, it's right. Again, if you actually read what I've written instead of jumping to preconceived ideas is that I am not happy with the level of communication about 1.2. Other similar projects have milestones and often report on those milestones. This project doesn't seem to have anything like that. This is the reason why I've claimed that it's in a development spiral, and that I don't expect 1.2 earlier than Christmas 2010. There's simply no way to tell, and no-one can legitimately claim otherwise unless the development team come out and spill the beans.

When someone does respond to my simple requests for information, they tell me to go to troll the forums, interrogate svn or hover in IRC. Sifting through that to find legitimate information from the dev team reporting the actual progress on their part of the project is like trying to find a nanotube in the backyard of Arnold Schwarzenegger's mansion. Let's be real for a while OK. The forums are filled with randoms who have only 10% of the information right that they've gleaned from playing 1.2. The SVN is filled with bugs that have legitimately been closed, but re-opened to shut pple up or bugs that remain open but are so low priority they may as well be forgotten about. The IRC is filled with chat about what pple did on the weekend, or some random comments thrown in about how someone didn't like the gameplay.

If I'm bitter about anything it is about this, people not listening to me and telling me to go get the information myself regarding how close 1.2 is without actually understanding that what they are telling me to do is an exercise in futility.

I've said all this with the understanding that Norfenstein has my thumbs up, he seems to be the only dev who's communicating anything but we all know he's not the only dev doing anything. What about the others what are they doing? How close are they to reaching a happy place? (notice I'm not asking for a time line or a date of completion)

Sorry if this is tl

[mooseberry]

David isn't Trem team though. And I think we have all seen this same post, in one form or another a million times. Good luck, but I don't think this will do anything if the first 50 didn't. Tremulous goes at its own pace, and unless you want to drop down some cash, I don't think that will change.

[rotacak]

Trem 1.2 should have only new internet protocol, download prompt, cl_guidunique 1, internet speed set to DSL and default source set to internet. With this we can play new maps and we can develop our servers. And of course, then we can wait ten years for never-released 1.3 with chompers, without hovel etc.

[janev]

I can't be arsed to repeat myself so I'll just post my reply to the last one of these threads.

[snip]

I just really wish they had a sort of "weekly update" or something. Saying things like "This is what we've done this week, this is our plan for next week" and better responses to people asking questions like "why has goon pounce become the main source of damage" instead of just "we decided that" or "for balance" I would like to know WHY not just that it's a balance thing. I KNOW it's a balance thing, but I want to know WHY they believe it will make balance better and why chomp wasn't just adjusted.

Raawr! I disurv to nuw! j/k. Seriously if you want to be in the loop you have to get plugged into the information. I'll leave it up to you to find it. You cant expect people to be writing you reports about what they are doing in their free time. Sorry to tell you this but you are not their manager

Shameless topic derailment: So did karate work out for your kid?

[FisherP]

I can't be arsed to repeat myself so I'll just post my reply to the last one of these threads.

Raawr! I disurv to nuw! j/k. Seriously if you want to be in the loop you have to get plugged into the information. I'll leave it up to you to find it. You cant expect people to be writing you reports about what they are doing in their free time. Sorry to tell you this but you are not their manager

Shameless topic derailment: So did karate work out for your kid?

Yeah, I understand that David isn't in the team, though Khalsa was suppose to be put on as the communication officer. He hasn't done a good job recently if I may be frank. That other dude suggested weekly updates, sif. We have information about the gameplay, but we don't have any notice about the rest of the development. It would be nice.

RE my kid's karate, hasn't started yet, soon though we hope. Thanks for asking.

[benmachine]

he seems to be the only dev who's communicating anything but we all know he's not the only dev doing anything.

Allow me to communicate to you that I am not doing anything. I have exams very very soon, but even after that I am only going to do what's fun for me and there isn't a huge amount of that left. The primary problem we seem to face now is the lack of good replacement sounds; we've not reported our progress on that because there hasn't been any, to be honest. It's not a problem that any of us are very well-placed to solve.

[FisherP]

Allow me to communicate to you that I am not doing anything. I have exams very very soon, but even after that I am only going to do what's fun for me and there isn't a huge amount of that left. The primary problem we seem to face now is the lack of good replacement sounds; we've not reported our progress on that because there hasn't been any, to be honest. It's not a problem that any of us are very well-placed to solve.

Very good Ben. I'm not being smart, but it wasn't hard for you to tell me that. It was honest and didn't take a lot of time. Now, the real hard part (and I don't think it' that hard) is for one of you, to ask the others the same sort of questions. Write the answers down (or copy/paste) and post it somewhere prominent (i.e. not in some random thread like this one). Perhaps when the rest of the players see the roadblocks they can maybe help in some way. This is a community after-all, and I don't think that the dev team HAVE to do it all themselves. I've suggested to Stannum that he hold a modeling competition, for the models that he's having difficulties getting time to get around to. Ben, why not list out the sounds that you don't like (in a purpose built thread) and maybe some of us can do something about it. A rough guide to what you would like would help too, narrow the useless sounds out.

Regarding the fun, I understand, especially when pricks like me take the fun out, sorry 'bout that. It's never been my intention to be a prick, just some people drag it out of me... particularly the ones who don't really read and try to comprehend what I'm saying (or try to say).

[mooseberry]

Perhaps when the rest of the players see the roadblocks they can maybe help in some way. This is a community after-all, and I don't think that the dev team HAVE to do it all themselves. I've suggested to Stannum that he hold a modeling competition, for the models that he's having difficulties getting time to get around to. Ben, why not list out the sounds that you don't like (in a purpose built thread) and maybe some of us can do something about it. A rough guide to what you would like would help too, narrow the useless sounds out.

It is a nice idea, but in practice...

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=8475.0

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=10319.0

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=7827.0

Even for something as simple as this --> http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=12973.0

There is a long history of very little contribution from the community to official projects. If you could get something going with real results and real quality, I would be very surprised to be honest.

[benmachine]

Very good Ben. I'm not being smart, but it wasn't hard for you to tell me that. It was honest and didn't take a lot of time. Now, the real hard part (and I don't think it' that hard) is for one of you, to ask the others the same sort of questions.

In the main the answers are even duller than mine, believe me.

Ben, why not list out the sounds that you don't like (in a purpose built thread) and maybe some of us can do something about it.

As pointed out above this has already been done, and nothing happened.

Regarding the fun, I understand, especially when pricks like me take the fun out, sorry 'bout that. It's never been my intention to be a prick, just some people drag it out of me... particularly the ones who don't really read and try to comprehend what I'm saying (or try to say).

This is not about you, or anyone else it's just a case of what I enjoy doing changing with the times - C isn't as fun as it used to be. So in a lot of cases when developers run out of steam there's nothing anyone can do about it.

[FisherP]

@Mooseberry, I thought that the map competitions actually produced maps worthwhile. Admittedly there's lots of useless looking maps, lots that are incomplete, but I honestly thought that some maps were OK to put into 1.2.

I didn't know about the icon contest. Do you know if any Dev has started any?

Regarding helping Khalsa out with the notices, I think he had plenty of ideas thrown at him

@Benmachine, Are you looking at replacing ALL the trem sounds? Are there some sounds that you can live with, and others that you just hate? There's a lot of sounds there, replacing the whole lot seems like a daunting task.

Whew, I'm pleased that I haven't taken the fun out for you.

Not promising anything, but I'm going to try to get our Australian people working on sounds and icons.

[David]

The icons have all been made, I think they are all on the GPP servers now.

The sounds will all need to be replaced unless someone can find licensing information about the current ones, which seems unlikely.

[F50]

Just how old are those sounds? Are they old enough for it not to matter?

[David]

Isn't copyright like 90 years or something retarded in the US now?

[A Spork]

I thought it was 13?(But don't quote me on that, cant remember where I heard it)

[kevlarman]

something like 50 years past the author's death (e.g. effectively indefinite).

[tucho]

The sounds will all need to be replaced unless someone can find licensing information about the current ones, which seems unlikely.

Couldn't you (the devs) postpone the sound changes to... 1.3? I mean, all the sounds have been in use for all these years and yet nothing happened. I know it's more about a matter of principle than of fear of being sued by somebody, but still. I guess you would like to finally release 1.2 and be done with it as much as we, the players, would like to be able to play it officially (as opposed to gpp which isn't really official). Please set yourself realistic goals. If you insist on changing the sounds before 1.2, you probably won't release anything for the next several years, which would be really sad for everyone (including you).

And yes, I know the planned release date for 1.3 is year 2136 (on Thursday).

[mooseberry]

its 70 years after death but pretty much it yea... just steal gunshots recorded by us army members as those are in the public domain

[gimhael]

I just found this nice article about making your own explosion sounds. It also contains a link to a collection of sounds under a pretty free license.

[Conzul]

I just found this nice article about making your own explosion sounds. It also contains a link to a collection of sounds under a pretty free license.

Put it in the Development board in the sound topic. it's useless here.

[FisherP]

The icons have all been made, I think they are all on the GPP servers now.

The sounds will all need to be replaced unless someone can find licensing information about the current ones, which seems unlikely.

I suppose this is an example where the communication isn't what it should be. Benmachine thought that the icons needed to be done, but they are.

As for sounds have you looked at http://www.freesound.org/ for any you might like?

[benmachine]

Benmachine thought that the icons needed to be done, but they are.

No I didn't

but there was a time when they did, and the community were asked to do them, and silence echoed throughout the chamber

Also, I have no personal objection to the sounds, it is solely licensing, as everyone else has said.

[FisherP]

No I didn't

Sorry, my bad.

Has someone looked through the sounds at freesound.org? I would imagine we could get most of the sounds from there (to modify or use as-is), the rest may need someone's voice + effects

[FisherP]

I've started looking through www.freesound.org and have a few sounds so far. I don't know if I can get the full compliment of sounds, but I see that not all sounds are being used at present, unless certain maps can call up the additional sounds. The acid tube sound is a little tricky. I noticed that it kinda sounds like a door closing when it's sped up, so I've got a sound similar to it, but without the organic burbling. I'm hoping someone can help with that.

Is there any objection to suggesting new sounds?

[Lakitu7]

The license at freesound doesn't appear to be compatible. Emails were sent to the freesound people asking if they can be relicensed for the project so we can use them. No replies were received.

[FisherP]

yeah, I've discovered that... I'm having this discussion in http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0