Stages rethink

[jez]

I've started playing trem in the last month or so (and been enjoying it so far), so in the time honoured tradition of being a noob, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the game mechanics in my first post, namely the stages system. Oh, and also hi.

I think the current 3 stages system works pretty well. Stages feel more or less even between aliens and humans, and are fun to play. You do however seem to get a lot of options at s1. I'd like it to feel more restricted at the start, and then gradually build up, encouraging a greater diversity of gameplay, class and loadout choices. Also, of the things you get at s2, there is a massive range of how "advanced" they feel; to me, helmets and boosters seem in a different league to adv maras/goons, pulse rifles and jet packs.

I came up with the following: how does a "stage 1.5" between 1 and 2 sound? I've left stages 2 & 3 unchanged, delayed a few things from s1 (goons, some human weapons, repeaters), and moved a couple earlier from s2 (booster, helmet, adv lisk).

s1
humans
• ckit, rifle, blaster medikit
• Shotgun, lasgun, larmour
• RC, arm, medi, turret

aliens
• Dretch, granger
• Basilisk, Marauder
• OM, egg, acid tube, barricade

s1.5
humans
• Mass driver, pain saw, chain gun
• Helmet, battery pack
• Repeater

aliens
• Dragoon, adv. basilisk
• Booster

s2 & s3 as normal

I reckon these new stages would play quite well for both teams, though more experienced players would be able to judge this better than I can. My gut feeling is this might shift the balance slightly towards humans, but not by too much. Also, the removal of pain saws and goons from the very start does reduce the possibility of one team's base getting raped within the first 5 mins or so, for better or worse.

I realise these changes are probably too significant/fundamental to really prove popular - but still, I think its worth having a look at. For me at least, this setup looks more fun, and it wouldn't introduce a needless amount of complexity into the game either.

Thoughts?

[Conzul]

You have something against a team winning in the first five minutes? That's skill, it deserves win.

Sorry mate but your stage changes would cause a large imbalance toward humans. They would win every time with lasgun at s1 and no goon to protect. basi and mara are not brawn classes (though some players make them look like it), rather specialty classes or support classes. Maybe if lasgun was at stage 1.5 it would be better.

[jez]

You have something against a team winning in the first five minutes? That's skill, it deserves win.

Perhaps, but more often than not on the public servers its due to defending/building incompetence rather than skill, which is less fun.

Sorry mate but your stage changes would cause a large imbalance toward humans. They would win every time with lasgun at s1 and no goon to protect. basi and mara are not brawn classes (though some players make them look like it), rather specialty classes or support classes. Maybe if lasgun was at stage 1.5 it would be better.

Fair enough. I was concerned about that (one of the reasons battpack went s1.5), but thought that a mara vs larmour lasgun would be about even*. Goons sometimes seem a bit OTT at s1, humans have nothing which beats them 1v1. Maybe I just need to get better at the shotgun...


* Oh, and thinking about credits/evos, is there a generally agreed consensus on the conversion rate between the 2 (such as 1 evo ~ 200cr)? Also, the reward humans get for killing different classes of aliens varies with the class strength (also partial credit for doing damage) - is there an equivalent for aliens, or do they always just get 1 evo per kill?

[Conzul]

I think in 1.2 that that humans with heavy weapons are worth more than 1 evo, but I could be wrong. I've often noticed getting more than one evo after I killed an armored luci.

[F50]

You get 2 evos for greater than 400cr, and 3 for greater than 800 IIRC.

Personally I'd switch lasgun and chaingun, but I kinda like the idea in general. The chaingun helps you survive (read: camp) better if you get a few stages behind and isn't that effective in combat without at least a helmet. I'm also not so sure about helmet and booster being in stage 1.5. It would make a good mod anyways.

Note: in-game It would make more sense to use (s1, s2, s3, s4) instead of (s1, s1.5, s2, s3).

[David]

I think in 1.2 that that humans with heavy weapons are worth more than 1 evo, but I could be wrong. I've often noticed getting more than one evo after I killed an armored luci.

It's been like that ever since 1.1.
The only difference is now aliens can get half evos making the sharing slightly fairer.

[Saliva]

I wouldn't mind more stages that could be achieved more often. It would add depth to the gameplay when you need to be good at more classes/equipment to do well. For example not having dragoon at start would require players to be good with marauder. The problem however is that the changes would require rebalancing of the game and I'm quite certain the developers aren't willing to do that right now.

[jez]

Thanks for the clarification on the evos. I've been doing some more thinking about this, and might post some later.

@ F50
I'd be reluctant to put chaingun s1. I certainly see chaingun as stronger than the lasgun, so switching this might only increase the risk of bias in favour of the humans at the start. Fair point about the naming being slightly odd.

@ Saliva
Thanks, that's what I was aiming for! It was my intention to structure things such that the balance would be preserved without the need for additional tweaking, though that might prove difficult.