Defence Computer should be improved

[Meisseli]

eh, the armoury is still a better roadblock.

And do you really want DC to be only a barricade?

[jm82792]

Hmm.
Maybe it should increase turret speed or something slight but noticeable?

[Celestial_Rage]

eh, the armoury is still a better roadblock.

And do you really want DC to be only a barricade?

No, it will still retain its healing abilities. So, you could build a blocker DC and a turret that will heal itself as it shoots the aliens.

[Knowitall66]

Well could make it a vital structure by only giving Humans a 'Base is Under Attack' message when a DC is present.

[Aelita]

It's a better barricade than the alien one. And Celestial's right, it could heal the rets around it. Rather useful structure.

[your face]

I think buildings around the hovel (that is going to be added again) should be healed twice as fast as normal buildings.

[F50]

Enough about barricades, that really isn't its intended purpose and it feeds BP. I think a tesla zap would change the purpose of the defense computer unduly as well. A hud display of buildings would be nice, but that would create more clutter than I would like and would break 999bp (not like I particularly care, but a limit would have to be placed on that cvar). IMO, the question is then: "what is a 'good' regen rate for the defense computer and what should it heal?

[Plague Bringer]

Something not OP but worth getting a DC for. The problem is that H never used to have regenerating buildings, so they're not at all reliant on the DC or its features and they overlook them.

[Meisseli]

Something that makes it useful. I'm sorry but healing 3 per second makes it 22 seconds to heal a zap's worth of damage. That is a way too high figure, you can travel to human base twice with a marauder in that time. Not to mention that a human would heal the same amount of damage in 3 seconds.

I would say at least double it. Make the games more interesting by actually having DC worth killing.

Or triple it and limit the amount of buildings healed.

[Conzul]

Lets make it more strategic. How about raise the heal rate to something like 10/sec, and cut the range in half. That way, you get a small group of buildings that you can heal quickly, at the expence of zapability.

[Plague Bringer]

More heal and less range would also require a cost deduction so that more can be built, unless the point is to have the DC extremely valuable to the core of the base. I'd like to see how a 6BP DC would factor in to expansions.

[F50]

I'm sorry but healing 3 per second makes it 22 seconds to heal a zap's worth of damage. That is a way too high figure, you can travel to human base twice with a marauder in that time. Not to mention that a human would heal the same amount of damage in 3 seconds.

But you have got it wrong. A human could not heal that damage in three seconds. A decent zap will damage three, perhaps four structures. The defense computer will heal all of it in...22 seconds. A human will take 9-12 seconds to heal that damage, making human repair between 1.7x and 2.4x the speed. Now I'm no expert on either balance or defense computers, so I'm not sure either way, and I'm willing to concede that it wouldn't hurt for defense computers to get a boost, but do at least try to understand how the current one works, and why I like building one in most bases. At 8 structures damaged, in the moment (or after the first wave of) a nasty attack, its healing the base faster than you think.

[Meisseli]

I wonder where you got the idea I don't know how a defense computer works.

I wonder also when those 8 structures you say are hurt have the time to heal for those 22 seconds. And that's merely a one zap. One zap worth of damage. 60 damage in 22 seconds. How easy it is to pull off another zap is really what should be wondered too.

Thing is: if there really is a big rush there will be 2-3 repairers doing the job making DC useless.

Thing is: if there is a small rush, a single human can repair all by itself while waiting in the medi queue.

What really could be cool is to make DC actually worth another repairer in your base. Make it useful enough to be almost or even worth another human repairer. Right now it is far from that.

You see, what DC does now is repair all the small little damages that wouldn't even matter. Or repair slow enough that it wouldn't even matter. Dividing the damage repaired around is a silly thing since it could be a useful building repairing those buildings that need the repairing. Instead now, it repairs all the buildings but it takes too long to repair any useful amount to those buildings. It is really useless that every building has +12 more hit points or whatever and it is very important that a select buildings actually have enough hit points to stand up.

All in all,

If one would want DC to be useful, it should be like that extra repairer. Repairing say 2 buildings at a time with a higher repair rate. It could be set to repair the closest buildings first making it tactical where you actually put the building. Right now I have no incentive to destroy the DC because I know when I'm going for the RC those 6 hit points it heals won't matter. What I would like is for the DC to be more of a key building since it is the only one that is not.

[Conzul]

Fine, so make it have short range and fast repair rate. Another idea is to give it constant repair, even when the building is being damaged actively by an alien.

[UniqPhoeniX]

If DC is kept as a repairer, I still like these ideas the most:

Or give it a total heal rate which is split between all buildings that need repair, like I suggested somewhere. Another nice thing would be for it to heal nearby buildings slightly faster, so the builder can choose what gets repaired first. This could in some cases make for much more interesting dc locations.

Maybe with 25 hp total heal rate?
Tho I got to agree that "Defence Computer" sounds like it would improve defences or something. Maybe rename it? Nanite Control? With a nice particle effect that could be great.
Ofc a building that improves defences would be an important target for aliens, thus making the game more interesting, but it is too late to mess with that for 1.2.

[Crava_Loft]

[deleted]

[F50]

I wonder where you got the idea I don't know how a defense computer works.

When you choose an example in which the defense computer was not meant to be useful, and then say it is useless (and therefore needs a boost), I do wonder.

I wonder also when those 8 structures you say are hurt have the time to heal for those 22 seconds.

If I recall correctly, the majority of rushes do not involve the entire alien team, especially not until sudden death. Even when the do happen, its usually because someone has managed to cause enough damage to give the aliens an opportunity they don't want to miss. Except for a full scale rush, the aliens will come in waves. This is the reason I consider the defense computer to be an asset worth having. You underestimate the amount of people that repair damage except for large rushes. It was not unusual in my 1.1 days for me to see a turret smoking, with a human camping on top of it, and no one bothering to grab a ckit. Minor damages that don't matter *right now* are ignored to add up over time.

If one would want DC to be useful, it should be like that extra repairer. Repairing say 2 buildings at a time with a higher repair rate. It could be set to repair the closest buildings first making it tactical where you actually put the building. Right now I have no incentive to destroy the DC because I know when I'm going for the RC those 6 hit points it heals won't matter. What I would like is for the DC to be more of a key building since it is the only one that is not.

When you're going for the reactor the defense computer is more than healing, but you know that. Even so, I'd rather have a slower repair rate by a defense computer than have you waste your time repairing, you're kind of a good shot you know. But why must the defense computer be a critical structure? Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?

Now even so I'd like to see how the defense computer would factor into the balance as you suggest. Personally I'd also like to see what would happen of the defense computer's healing rate was just increased to 5 or perhaps even 7 hp/sec. But I think it really comes down to a field test at this point.

[your face]

Whenever you build a defense computer, it should kill a random alien.

Mostly dragoons to tyrants.  And ones that have more feeds/teamkills than the rest.

[Saliva]

Defense computer is a risky investment because you can't know if it will help enough. If the game is long and aliens are poor at destroying buildings, only damaging them most of the time then perhaps the healing it provides is enough so it's worth the bp. Also when using repeaters to extend the base you need to build more dcs so all buildings are repaired making it even more risky. I would prefer that the dc is something that is always good for sure. Something you want to build as fast as possible as humans and something aliens want to destroy.

What i dislike most about dc is that it's usefulness depends on opponent team skill. If aliens know what they are doing the dc is a waste of bp for sure. If they are bad i don't need the dc to win anyway.

[Plague Bringer]

Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?

I wonder why a structure that was never meant to be individual wouldn't be an incredibly important asset to a base.

[mooseberry]

Turrets are not key buildings individually, why should the defense computer be so important?

I wonder why a structure that was never meant to be individual wouldn't be an incredibly important asset to a base.

important!=key. Plague Bringer, if you got to choose one structure for the Adv. goon to snipe-kill, which would it be? Your telenode (of probably two) your armory? your medistation? Or your turret (of maybe 5-8) Turrets are not as important individually, if you tell me you would rather your node, arm, or medi killed than one turret in a standard base, I have to assume you are trolling, as I don't think you an idiot.

[Circle]

What about the DCC boosting buildables armor. I also like that it gives out a warning message as Knowitall66 pointed out.Or having the DCC recall humans with its Arbiter abilities.

[yoshinoya]

DC will repair buildings instantly after took damage it should be improved

[Meisseli]

I would prefer that the dc is something that is always good for sure. Something you want to build as fast as possible as humans and something aliens want to destroy. [...] If aliens know what they are doing the dc is a waste of bp for sure. If they are bad i don't need the dc to win anyway.

This is the ultimate truth.

F50 - you have not addressed the fact that I won't waste time repairing since it's just another thing to do while waiting in the medi queue.

If there are small damages like that I'll just repair them in no time. If there are major damages there will be repairers and if there are not, DC is slow enough so humans lose anyway.

I want DC to be non-useless building. A building worth building so it just won't be left in the list. Turrets and teslas are very important for a human team. If I see a human base and I have 3 snipes I won't waste them with the DC. I doubt anyone would. I'd aim for anything that I could starting from a priority list that has DC in the very, very deep bottom.

Even giving buildables "shields" (read: extra HP that repairs by itself) like in Starcraft would be a good choice. Or boosting turret and tesla damage/range. I don't know - ultimately the devs decide but I think really a small, small minority does not want the DC to be boosted somehow.

[F50]

You have some good arguments. The DC is not recognized as a target for advanced dragoons because it is not important enough. It is not of critical importance. However,

F50 - you have not addressed the fact that I won't waste time repairing since it's just another thing to do while waiting in the medi queue.

If there are small damages like that I'll just repair them in no time. If there are major damages there will be repairers and if there are not, DC is slow enough so humans lose anyway. I want DC to be a non-useless building.

Yes you can heal scratches while waiting to heal, I've done this. Do you really think that all of the work of the defense computer amounts to that? I understand why you think it might be underpowered, but I do not understand why you seem so adamant that the DC does not help *at all*.

[Conzul]

At the least, rename it. Far from it's 1.1 role of actually being a defence computer, it's now a DCC, or Damage Control computer.

[Meisseli]

Do you really think that all of the work of the defense computer amounts to that? I understand why you think it might be underpowered, but I do not understand why you seem so adamant that the DC does not help *at all*.

That is my opinion basically, well, I think the DC helps so little it is of no use. I haven't found it good enough to build it at any time. There has always been more priority on more useful buildings such as turrets or teslas.

[jez]

I like the shield idea. If the DC actively took damage in place of structures near it, then it would have a far more useful role in defence, and would buy time during alien assaults.

This would make it a sort of parallel to the alien's barricade, a structure that while unimportant itself has to be killed before the critical structures behind it can be.

Failing that, Uniq's idea of a certain regeneration rate spread over all local structures is an improvement over the status quo.

[Knowitall66]

What about a medkit-like heal rate? So it will only begin repairing X seconds after an attack, repairing starts off at a slow rate and steadily speeds up. That way if aliens are still around they can still take down the structures and if not the base will be fine.

[Conzul]

What about a medkit-like heal rate? So it will only begin repairing X seconds after an attack, repairing starts off at a slow rate and steadily speeds up. That way if aliens are still around they can still take down the structures and if not the base will be fine.

Don't like it. H Base will start to have too many alien characteristics. Maybe, if this effect had a *very* short range, that would be fine.