Unfairness

[Checkpoint]

Have you ever noticed that Humans NEVER win in big games? That's because aliens have the advantage of being hard to hit early in the game. By the time aliens get to phase 3, humans are screwed.

[Neo]

That is why humans stage faster than aliens and are designed to work as teams. Aliens have to get close in order to kill while humans can do it from the opposite end of the map.

[rasz_pl]

Have you ever noticed that Humans NEVER win in big games?

not if i'm arround as human

[Checkpoint]

People say that when Humans camp, they lose. How is that possible when all Aliens need to do is make a dash towards the human base in those small dudes? Humans barely get anywhere! Aliens have speed, they're harder to hit, they hit for more, and those stupid Tyrants killing everything from 5 feet away and being able to mow through everything like it was nothing.

Aliens DO need to get up close, but while humans are killing them from afar, Aliens can get close in 2 seconds with their fast speed and tear them to bits. Aliens have less buildings, but they do a lot better job at killing stuff. And by the time humans get Tesla generators, Aliens are strong enough to just mow through them anyway.

And I have been in 2 on 2 games and even then, humans usually win about 20% or so of their games (that I've been in). And in huge games, by the time I spawn, Aliens are dominating the base.

Humans take longer to build (I think), and they're pretty weak. The eggs won't die to 5 whole clips of Pulse Rifle shots (but the overmind does :eek: ).

The Aliens first killing creature is the small ones with 25 HP, but they dominate over rifles. They go quite quickly into Marauders and Dragoons, which kill a lot faster, which means that by the time Humans get halfway through stage 2 (if even that), Aliens have Tyrants.

People usualy tell Humans not to camp, but they don't have much of a choice, since they're bombarded real quickly anyway. They just keep coming 5 seconds after they die, which takes a miracle to get past.

So seriously, Aliens have way too many advantages.

[rasz_pl]

The eggs won't die to 5 whole clips of Pulse Rifle shots (but the overmind does :eek: ).

The Aliens first killing creature is the small ones with 25 HP, but they dominate over rifles.

what game are you talking about?
-egg dies after 2/3 normal pulse clip, or 2 rifle clips, om dies from one battery pulse clip
-dretch dies from 0.5sec firle serie
-one dead dretch = shotgun, shotgun = 4 more dead dretches in a row if no other human shots you in your back
-2 dretches = lasgun = 3 eggs on one clip = game over if no alien build

[Checkpoint]

When I did it, I used 3 whole clips to kill an egg, and it lived.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

When I did it, I used 3 whole clips to kill an egg, and it lived.

dude, the hitbox of an egg is at the sole bottom, not the egg itself, you can spam that as you want and it wont die

AIM for gods sake

[Stof]

When I did it, I used 3 whole clips to kill an egg, and it lived.

dude, the hitbox of an egg is at the sole bottom, not the egg itself, you can spam that as you want and it wont die

AIM for gods sake

You have to admit it is extremly counter intuitive. We need a better hit feedback or a model better matching the hitbox, or both.

[Survivor]

People say that when Humans camp, they lose. How is that possible when all Aliens need to do is make a dash towards the human base in those small dudes? Humans barely get anywhere! Aliens have speed, they're harder to hit, they hit for more, and those stupid Tyrants killing everything from 5 feet away and being able to mow through everything like it was nothing.

You need to learn how an alien plays before you truly become effective at countering them. Just seems you don't know how to take on certain classes.

Aliens DO need to get up close, but while humans are killing them from afar, Aliens can get close in 2 seconds with their fast speed and tear them to bits. Aliens have less buildings, but they do a lot better job at killing stuff. And by the time humans get Tesla generators, Aliens are strong enough to just mow through them anyway.

Alien buildings SUCK at killing something without support. A couple of turrets can do hefty damage though.

And I have been in 2 on 2 games and even then, humans usually win about 20% or so of their games (that I've been in). And in huge games, by the time I spawn, Aliens are dominating the base.

That's because experienced players prefer aliens.

Humans take longer to build (I think), and they're pretty weak. The eggs won't die to 5 whole clips of Pulse Rifle shots (but the overmind does :eek: ).

Hitbox

The Aliens first killing creature is the small ones with 25 HP, but they dominate over rifles. They go quite quickly into Marauders and Dragoons, which kill a lot faster, which means that by the time Humans get halfway through stage 2 (if even that), Aliens have Tyrants.

To be honest humans need to get in 5 riflehits to kill a dretch. They have rapid firing rifles to do it and because of the range enough time to do it as well.

People usualy tell Humans not to camp, but they don't have much of a choice, since they're bombarded real quickly anyway. They just keep coming 5 seconds after they die, which takes a miracle to get past.

This is true, but the tactic for this would be to coordinate an attack to drive them past and kill their forward eggs.

[Edge]

Dretches are easy to kill with some aim. Humans camp because they're afraid/unskilled, and they die in their base with a n00b rifle in their hands for it. Any good human is going to snipe a few dretches, buy a chaingun/lasgun and some light armor, and go hunting for aliens.

 If you can't do this it's because you need to get better. It's not like you'd do any better as an alien.

[Stof]

Humans camp at stage 1 because :
- good alien players will kill them in one hit before they have time to react
- it only takes one torso dretch hit to lose more than half your life. At that point you are so weak that unless you are very good, your best bet is to go back healing
- it sucks to lose hard earned equipment and so people prefer to play defensively. Make it so that you have a greatly reduced risk of loosing your equipment and people will instantly get much more agressive. Even better, make it so that it's much much harder to get equipment but you cannot lose it and you'll see people attack more and defend less

[StVald]

Crouch at the end of a hallway that has a decent length, favourably facing a door at the other end. Keep your aiming reticle lined with the base of the opening/door at the other end, and stay calm. When a dretch pops through, deal a quick burst of fire. They usually wont expect it coming, and wont be able to pull off their acrobatics. You can do this for about 4 kills in the same hallway before the aliens figure you out.

The reason humans suck vs aliens in recent games is because they try to match them speed for speed and toe to toe. Human targeting really can not keep up with a moving dretch, unless you figure out their movement pattern. And if you are toe to toe, you aren't using your weapon's main advantage which is long range.

You gotta be calm and patient, unless you have a spamming weap like a flamthrower or luci.

[KorJax]

1.   Statistics dont lie.  According to the server information on TJW's server, the amount of times the human team wins is about equal to the amount of time the alien team wins.

2.  Realize that the same thing would happen to aliens if the human team did it.  Being mostly an alien player, i HATE it when the human team is really agressive, even in the beginnging.  Aliens are pretty weak defensively, whilst the the humans can easily not worry about thier base unless the aliens reach S3.

If your team is agressive like the aliens are, and you take advantage of you having more health and having range, the human team can easily win in many curcumstances.

Many alien structures have low health points, and are easily destroyed, especially if the Alien team builder is a nooby and builds everything in the open.  Thats why teh only real way for aliens to have an effective base is if they hide eveyrthing and make traps, while the humans need to bundle up everything close and in a low-hanging room to keep the Mara's out.

Also, against S1+S2 aliens, your best weapon on your team is agressive use of the shot gun for aliens and painsaws for bases.  A group of about 2-3 painsawers and 2-3 shot gunners (give or take), will dominate many S1 aliens teams, and somtimes S2 aliens if they didnt build properly.

Anyways, the game is fairly balanced.  Its just most human players are more or less "afraid" of the Aliens in general.

In reality, the player on the other side of that alien is is also a "human".   Proper use of "show of force" and "map dominace" will easily make them afraid of you.  So moral of the story:

Grow some balls  :wink:

[next_ghost]

Aliens DO need to get up close, but while humans are killing them from afar, Aliens can get close in 2 seconds with their fast speed and tear them to bits. Aliens have less buildings, but they do a lot better job at killing stuff. And by the time humans get Tesla generators, Aliens are strong enough to just mow through them anyway.

Dude, even tyrant won't survive 2 seconds under fire of 3 chainguns or 4 rifles. Don't just watch aliens slaughtering your teammates, START SHOOTING!

In most games, you have to force the other team to follow your rules of combat and do what you want, not the other way around. And Tremulous is not an exception. It may be a little different in how you do that and how fast the tide of battle can turn but the rule still applies.

[Lava Croft]

Teamplaying Humans are unbeatable.

[Howitzer]

Most noobs pick the Humans to play with since they go bitching on how dretches suck.
That's why the humans are a noob team in 5/6 of the games i play.
They suck, they don't cooperate and just sit in base, feed us and think they're playing good.
Then we rush them with tyrants and they go 'Tyrants are overpowered!!!!!11!1!1!1!1!!!11!'.
(Sometimes also some bitching about how they hate marauders because i killed them)

This is how practicly all my games go.

[Belier13]

Most noobs pick the Humans to play with since they go bitching on how dretches suck.
That's why the humans are a noob team in 5/6 of the games i play.
They suck, they don't cooperate and just sit in base, feed us and think they're playing good.
Then we rush them with tyrants and they go 'Tyrants are overpowered!!!!!11!1!1!1!1!!!11!'.
(Sometimes also some bitching about how they hate marauders because i killed them)

This is how practicly all my games go.

Or, they camp at base untill they reach S3, then they take Battlesuit + chaingun/flamer/Lucitard and go spray around. And they still end up losing.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

whine whine, blah, whine, blah blah, whine

[Henners]

Well at least it makes a change for someone to be complaining that aliens are overpowered for once, rather than humans.

but really though, fook off and at least read the rest of the forum, and then you might realise why you are just plain wrong in so many ways.

[Howitzer]

I'm not whining, those games make me relaxed as i can put a minimal amount of effort in it and a bigger amount of chatting fun

[Captain Ventris]

Well at least it makes a change for someone to be complaining that aliens are overpowered for once, rather than humans.

but really though, fook off and at least read the rest of the forum, and then you might realise why you are just plain wrong in so many ways.

I have never seen anyone say Humans are overpowered.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

try

http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/search.php

[Henners]

I have never seen anyone say Humans are overpowered.

Obviously you havnt had the pleasure of speaking to kattana. Try searching for his posts

[Lava Croft]

At the end of the beta stage, when the (very few) beta players got better and better at Tremulous, the Humans had a tendency of winning most games, because when Humans really teamplay, and have a diverse team, the Aliens just have no answer ready.

[PHREAK]

Hummies are overpowered, and I think they should be. They have the technology, defenses and teamwork on their side. Like lava said, team playing hummies are close to unbeatable.
However, since many good players play alien (more rewarding to play as then hummie), hummies are left with freshlings.
Another reason why hummies are overpowered is simply the fact that they are a lot easier to master, since the trem hummies follow the standard FPS principle that most people are familiar with.

Why more and more games are won by aliens is due to the fact that, while aliens take some time to master, they provide a vast veriety of creatures suitable for many different styles and situations thus are suiable for almost every situation out there. Humans are very vanilla. You simply point and shoot.
New players playing as hummies need to grow some balls, and attack, not go rambo unless there is a very good reason for it, and use teamchat.
Coordination is everything when playing hummies, while aliens can win withut saying one word.
Only things you hear as alien are:

forward booster please
INC
Defend
Don't block please.

Every alien is a small army for the self and really don't function well playing in teams as soon as they get bigger, so rambo/solo playing is quite welcomed.

Spend time with the game and see how others play. Watch good players as well as good builders, on both sides.

As far as big games go, Aliens rule small games while hummies rule big games. While there might be exceptions, this is the standard I've noticed so far.

[PIE]

? Alien team strategy is awesome...
Send in a marauder or two to go over the turrets/waste ammo, then dragoons to soften up the turrets, then tyrants to break through and kill the front line.. the the panic the marauders can stop being so distracting and eat the base, grangers advance and put hives/tubes/eggs near the base... teamwork is good no matter what side your on, and makes the difference between winning and loosing.

And I think its a quite rewarding to play human because you have to give it that extra bit of effort to make it out of your base and break the aliens...

[Checkpoint]

In every big game I was in, Aliens won 100% of the time.

[Teiman]

I love this game.

[Neo]

Just adding a bit to PIE's post. When you get to the tyrant rush stage as humans you absolutely have to do whatever it takes to break it. This includes suicidal one-man charges to kill a dying tyrant, as their guys only get 1 evo, while the target loses 5. It's also a reason why it is vital for humans to communicate and focus their fire.

[Edge]

I don't get people whining about dretches. Dretches are almost perfect in stage 1. The only unfairness with dretches is how hard it is for them after all humans are wearing armor and helmets after they get some credits from nailing dretches.

 If you can't nail enough dretches in a dretch rich environment to get armor, a helmet, and a decent weapon every single time you respawn, the problem is not the game; it's you. Sorry, but you suck.

 Here's an idea for you types that can't aim: Next time a dretch runs at you, stand still and aim at your feet. When the dretch tags you, fire. Credits. Go heal. Then think of the fact that you let that dretch tag you first and you still won the encounter.