Author Topic: mapping fade and sky  (Read 27054 times)

MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2010, 08:22:14 pm »
Fish: face obviously understands what I was always taught as one of the golden rules of programming: copy/paste is your friend.
If you can take one hunk of code and with a little modification make it work for you, it's far better and a more effiecient use of your time.

You can't make changes to something you do not know. And this is assuming you already know how to get into the shader file. If you think copy/paste is a good game-plan for programming you will not make it in a competitive environment. No one will hire you. But this is not about jobs, hiring, or even programming (you can't call markup programming. It's markup!). This is much less important then all that.

Again, I disagree. It's your opinion against mine and it's easy to see this is a collosal waste of time for both of us. I don't like getting heated up in a debate that has no evidence, no proofs, and really just opinion. None of this matters until someone decides to pay you for it- then it's obvious who is correct in that situation.

I would like to some up your argument like so- "wurk sux". I've already tried to close this with a respectful conclusion to both sides. What else is there to discuss?

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BUT OMG I MUST ARGUE MY POINT ACROSS UNTIL I MAKE HIM UNDERSTAND

Maturity isn't your strong suit, is it?

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2010, 08:59:17 pm »
You can't make changes to something you do not know. And this is assuming you already know how to get into the shader file.
It's how I learned. :P


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BUT OMG I MUST ARGUE MY POINT ACROSS UNTIL I MAKE HIM UNDERSTAND
Maturity isn't your strong suit, is it?

Sounds like your sarcasm detector batteries need a replacement, but I think we both have quite a bit of room for improvement in the maturity department, anyways. :D

We can still be friends, right?  I mean, I'm pretty sure we both feel sort of silly for making such a big fuss about shader files.  8)


BTW I don't mean to prove anything but for just FYI here's some links to some of my work, link, link, link.  My most recent map release was quite a while ago but here it is anyways: link, and a map me and brain collaberated on a couple years ago for the Tremcentral mapping contest: link.
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MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2010, 03:15:20 am »
but I think we both have quite a bit of room for improvement in the maturity department, anyways. :D

For me? How so?

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We can still be friends, right?  I mean, I'm pretty sure we both feel sort of silly for making such a big fuss about shader files.  8)

I've made no fuss. And I'm sorry but my definition of "friend" is probably much different from your facebook style of "friendship". I generally dislike unlikable people.

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2010, 05:38:18 am »
Oh well excuse me.  I didn't realize you took the internets so seriously. ::)

I think we can put our differences behind us.  For science.  You monster.

For me? How so?
Read this thread.  Prepare to apply your hand to forehead.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 05:40:52 am by your face »
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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2010, 06:14:11 am »
I won't tell you whose side I'm on because it wouldn't be a good idea. Let's say that one of you has a broader and more mature view of things.

But both of you make correct points:

It's good to learn something new. And it's also good to be as efficient as possible.

*grabs another bag of popcorn*


MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2010, 06:52:51 am »
Oh well excuse me.  I didn't realize you took the internets so seriously. ::)

The internet isn't categorized so broadly that you can say it's serious or not. It depends largely and sometimes entirely on the site and topic. This is a forum for an open source first person shooter game with an alien vs human theme. It is not the most serious of issues but a serious philosophical debate can be derived from the opposing opinions seen in this discussion.

Should you take the easy road at a cost to experience and knowledge?

Pros:
Saves time.
Can assume it's worked for others (tested and proven).

Cons:
Ill prepared.
Difficult to debug.
Becomes very reliant on the community.
Limited on creativity and power.

Feel free to add to the list if you think it's lacking. Don't be biased though, add to each side like I have.

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I think we can put our differences behind us.  For science.  You monster.

How is this science? How am I a monster? Why do you talk utter nonsense?

Read post number 25 of this topic. I have already dismissed the debate. Who brought it back into the light?
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13688.msg197900#msg197900

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Read this thread.  Prepare to apply your hand to forehead.

Done. It's only a little more then a one page topic. It shouldn't be hard for you to get some actual examples of my apparent immaturity that would cause me to literally press my hand against my forehead in embarrassment/frustration. I found non, please enlighten me.

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2010, 06:57:17 am »
Get ouside and smell... jk lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4siZQkSR7GY

Sorry, obscure reference.  I thought everyone knew about portal 2.

Done. It's only a little more then a one page topic. It shouldn't be hard for you to get some actual examples of my apparent immaturity that would cause me to literally press my hand against my forehead in embarrassment/frustration. I found non, please enlighten me.

Because, my good sir, we are having a huge argument about SHADER FILES. 

Alien! Magazine front cover headline reports:

Your Face and MrFish decided to break up today citing artistic differences.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 06:59:16 am by your face »
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Plague Bringer

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2010, 01:05:14 pm »
SITUATION A
You have a brush in your map that you want to act as a blue light.
SOLUTION A
You search through Karith's textures.
You find a blue light shader.
You use it.

SITUATION B
You have a brush in your map that you want to act as a light-emitting liquid.
SOLUTION B
You make your own shader.
You use it.

I hate to say it, Fish, because I think you're an intelligent person but, if you used SOLUTION B for SITUATION A, you're redundant and stupid. You slow your workflow and create that much extra (cloned) content by recreating the wheel exactly as it is. There is simply no point in creating a shader if one already exists for what you need. Now, if someone needs an extremely obscure shader they will figure out how to make it. If they can't do that on their own they're not qualified to make maps, anyway. Whenever I need a custom shader (as I've been too lazy to learn the language because I don't map enough for it to be worth it) I check the internet. I'm capable of using a cheat sheet to construct shaders. Everyone in the world is. If they know that there is a way to create custom shaders, they're all set, and will learn whatever they need to learn whenever they need to learn it unless they're content with pumping out (less than) mediocre maps.

TL;DR:
Face is saying that if an asset already exists, use it. Fish is saying that absolutely nothing in your map should be premade because that's lazy and stupid. Okay, so, that's a bit inflated, but the amount of drama here rivals the amount of drama surrounding my senior prom. Which is today. Seriously, kids, wrap it up. ;)
You're both right. The choice between custom and premade is subjective to the situation. Sometimes custom is better, sometimes premade is better. It's simple as that. Go clean your tampons and stop posting.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 01:10:27 pm by Plague Bringer »
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MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2010, 04:49:18 pm »
Yet again I disagree. You won't always know if it exists and where it exists. And, or me anyway, it takes 15 seconds to make a shader called "blue_light" and set whatever to those specifications.

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Seriously, kids, wrap it up........................... Go clean your tampons and stop posting.

Yes.

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Because, my good sir, we are having a huge argument about SHADER FILES.
Quote
This is a forum for an open source first person shooter game with an alien vs human theme. It is not the most serious of issues but a serious philosophical debate can be derived from the opposing opinions seen in this discussion.

God, maker of the world

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2010, 05:04:23 pm »
*crunchcrunchmunchgulp*

*crunchcrunch*

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2010, 05:45:59 pm »
Good luck at the prom, PB. :P

I'm going to just quit speaking to the brick wall and move on, even if me and MrFish are the only source of entertainment for this forum. *bows to the audience*

Tune in again for more of Tremulous Drama!
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MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2010, 06:29:15 pm »
I'm going to just quit speaking to the brick wall and move on, even if me and MrFish are the only source of entertainment for this forum. *bows to the audience*

There is so much I can say right now but I'm fighting myself so that I won't. I'm not going to get caught up in this. I think everyone reading this can see what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 06:31:40 pm by MrFish »

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2010, 08:11:23 pm »
lol jking gotcha :D
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God, maker of the world

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2010, 08:13:43 pm »
This has the potential to fill a few more pages.

*fetches more popcorn*

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2010, 08:15:41 pm »
This has all been part of my master plan of taking over the galaxy.





Darn, I think someone injected me with truth serum. :(
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MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2010, 09:15:09 pm »
This has the potential to fill a few more pages.

*fetches more popcorn*


Haha, well I hope this had some purpose after all. Glad I could entertain but I wouldn't plan on it :P

mooseberry

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2010, 07:46:34 pm »
MrFish I have to say you made a comment about hiring, but if you ever try to re-invent the wheel every time for every thing, you will be out of a job fast. Efficiency trumps most other things, sorry, and in the case of map-making, I don't think using an already existing shader will make his map any worse, infact, if you want to argue tiny things, it would make the map a little better by not requiring a new shader (that does the exact same thing.)
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swamp-cecil

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2010, 02:44:19 am »
0.o!
im not that complex at mapping! particle system? wobble? and worst of all; FLYING UNICORNS!??!?! oh shit! whats a particle shader thingy?
these are stupid suggestions, don't even waste our time.
I don't like your negative attitude.

MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2010, 04:56:34 am »
Moose: You didn't read/comprehend my entire post. I said don't reinvent the wheel.

Cecil:
You finally came out! See what can happen when you leave topics unattended. If you want to make a good map take my advice.
Also, a particle ejector throws out the specified textures from a specific point. With this you can simulate things like smoke, waterfalls, fire, etc. Purely for decoration.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 04:58:35 am by MrFish »

A Spork

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2010, 06:02:02 am »
Cecil: trust me, just borrow premade shaders at first till you understand what shaders do.
It'll make your life way easier.
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your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2010, 06:29:24 am »
Cecil: trust me, just borrow premade shaders at first till you understand what shaders do.
It'll make your life way easier.
Yes, do this.

If you want to make a good map take my advice.

Hahaha.  Glad to see we aren't full of ourselves here, and are keeping open minds. ::)
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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2010, 07:05:24 am »
*rustlenibblecrunchcrunch*

*nibblecrunchmunchgulp*

Plague Bringer

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2010, 12:03:14 pm »
Cecil: trust me, just borrow premade shaders at first till you understand what shaders do.
It'll make your life way easier.
And don't worry about learning how to write shaders right away. You'll find most of the ones you need in the default maps.
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MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2010, 03:50:33 pm »
Hahaha.  Glad to see we aren't full of ourselves here, and are keeping open minds. ::)

A double edged sword?

What an open mind is:
Willing to see the logic of an apposing side, adding to it, accepting it, or rejecting it.

What an open mind is not:
I will believe you because you said it.

And even still, none is of what is being stated is the antithesis of what I've instructed. If you want me to some up what I've said (again and again and again), I surely will.

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just borrow premade shaders at first till you understand what shaders do.

Haven't I said that you shouldn't reinvent the wheel? It seems you still don't comprehend what I am saying. Absolutely frustrating!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 03:54:54 pm by MrFish »

your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2010, 05:56:24 pm »
Well how about you make a decent example before claiming:
If you want to make a good map take my advice.
???
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God, maker of the world

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2010, 06:21:46 pm »
This bag does all of a sudden not seem that oversized.


MrFish

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2010, 06:22:31 pm »
Well how about you make a decent example before claiming:
If you want to make a good map take my advice.
???

My advice is that you shouldn't rely on everyone elses shaders. You should learn something for once. You shouldn't take the easy way out. Don't be lazy. Work isn't hard. Get a job (ok ok, this one is new. I like it though :P). etc. etc. etc.

Ended this thing twice I guess a third time will come soon. We done yet?

Edit:

Oh also, wtf is going on here?



Anonymous Karma System: because confrontation is scary!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 06:24:31 pm by MrFish »

Demolution

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2010, 06:39:47 pm »
How would an un-anonymous karma system be better? More e-penis stroking than necessary, methinks. >.>

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your face

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2010, 06:42:26 pm »
Oh also, wtf is going on here?

[img ]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8330/weakz.jpg[ /img]

Anonymous Karma System: because confrontation is scary!

Welcome to the internet. ;)  (I seem to remember from somewhere that you didn't care for that childish game?)

My advice is that you shouldn't rely on everyone elses shaders. You should learn something for once. You shouldn't take the easy way out. Don't be lazy. Work isn't hard.

Why not?
How about learning the basics of mapping before learning something new?  There's enough on OP's platter for now I think.
Easy, or efficient?
Why take longer to do something that has the same outcome of something that is much simpler to do and more efficient?
Again, take advantage of what's already there (if you can).

Also, you have -8 now.  Thank me. :D  (UN-ANONYMOUS YAY)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 06:44:22 pm by your face »
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God, maker of the world

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Re: mapping fade and sky
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2010, 07:01:32 pm »
*crunchcrunch*

I wish I knew how the turret thing works. Haven't yet found instructions. Or a reply to one of my questions about it. *crunchcrunch*