"You guys must like nature, because you sure do LOVE to camp..."

[Venkman]

[For the record: This post is in regards to 1.1 gameplay, as are the servers referenced. I know 1.2 has changed the dynamics of camping a bit. Also, I know the point of this topic already exists partially in different threads, but I didn't want to necro just to make my point. Besides, you guys don't seem to big fans of Zombie-Threading.]

I prefer humans.

Campers are fags, so I find I'm less frustrated if I'm just on the humans team, not worrying about how to take out entrenched ret-humpers.  If my whole team still decides to camp then oh well, I'm feeding.  Campers loss, at least I'm still having fun, and allowing the aliens to have a good time too.

I've been playing on AA and BB a lot lately and I have noticed that, after many games where the humans where slaughtered, it inevitably came down to an H-team line-up of RandomWhiteName campers (most likely noobs) who never ONCE left the base (not in any kind of organized rush-formation, at least).

Sure, there might have been one or two brave chain-suits who attempted a solo-flank, but they usually never made it anywhere near A-base. And I can attest to this because I was builder for most, if not all, of these games.

Now, I'm still half-a-noob myself and I can't say that these easy rounds didn't make for great practice, but they were never as satisfying as a real game where the teams are well-balanced and the stage increases are neck-and-neck and in the end even the losers are typing "GG" because there's no doubt that it was.

Don't get me wrong. Camping has it's purpose. Just not when you're ALL camping while allowing the Aliens to gang-rape your base from both ends.

And, as a fan of Aliens, I have to say that it's really disappointing to win a game against no-rush campers. These noobs who seem to think Tremulous is all about watching human bases get slowly picked apart, ret by ret, are grossly miss-informed.

So consider me an Alien Ambassador extending the olive-barb of peace when I say...

Preach it, Kaine! Go tell that shit on the mountain! Show your noobs the value of a well-timed rush because Friend Mara is tired of having to show them for you.

 
"Actually, I don't mind... Humans are delicious."

In fact, there is so much truth and wisdom in your words that they bare repeating (again):

I prefer humans.

Campers are fags, so I find I'm less frustrated if I'm just on the humans team, not worrying about how to take out entrenched ret-humpers.  If my whole team still decides to camp then oh well, I'm feeding.  Campers loss, at least I'm still having fun, and allowing the aliens to have a good time too.

On the motherfucking mountain...

[Conzul]

Why Not Camp?

Different game, and the guy's high on himself, but some of it's legit.

[Venkman]

Interesting argument and, honestly, I don't have much contempt for campers in most games. They're usually just a different type of challenge.

But with Trem, Human campers are usually nothing more than base-raid training. Sure, if the aliens are feeding, why NOT camp?

But some of these motherfuckers will never STOP camping and eventually Aliens reach s3 and just barb their base to death.

End of another boring round.

I love when people like Dracone or Bauer get on and humans try to camp. I'll usually be building my first tube when ALIENS WIN comes up and all I can think is:
"Thanks for saving some for me, guys."

[Conzul]

You know what the fix to your problem is? You need to go permanent alien, like I did. Human gameplay is generic and uninspired, and involves such things as camping. Sure you can camp as an alien, but no where near the way you can camp as a human. There is an added burst of self satisfaction as you and your minions overrun a human base that's been camping solidly for ages. I don't think it's possible to have a boring match if you play aliens, since they're line between dominance and running is so thin in 1.2

[Venkman]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Aliens, and specifically Mara, are the exact reason why I LOVE Tremulous.

I never played Gloom so when I first heard of Natural Selection, the concept blew my mind: A multiplayer FPS that's not just the same human skins with different colors shooting at each other was just too much for me to not fall in love.

Too bad NS was such a let down.

Then, one day, I Googled "like Natural Selection mod" and that's when I discovered Tremulous...

One game later, and I was hooked.

I'm just thankful there are people who prefer playing Humans, because my first choice will always be Aliens.

Quick question:
What servers do you play on? I get good ping on AA and BB but, with the exception of the random CTU guys who show up sometimes, unfortunately those two servers are usually rife with idiots and deconners and I'm not going to get any better powning RandomWhiteName noobs all day.

I need some more pros to play against so I can get schooled good and proper. That's the only way to really learn.

By the way, my player name is: ForgotAboutDre[tch

[Conzul]

Sorry mate, I only play 1.2
Usually US Official Server 1, Or one of the clan servers like UT, MAD, or SYNERGY

[A Spork]

Well I find that us1 is a great server to play on personally. Hardly any idiots/deconners
Also lots of fun guys to play with(although beware the WarlockBot)

[Venkman]

(although beware the WarlockBot)

...Yeah, that just sounds like something you don't want to fuck with.

[A Spork]

Yeah....War is pretty crazy awesome...

[CorSair]

(although beware the WarlockBot)

One pro, lots of newbs or random players.... and not much in-between of "pro/n00b" players, like me. --> Causes to me: leave the game -.-

But to topic, yes?

Camping is acceptable, if one or two stays in base, repairing stuff and fending off random adv maras and adv goons. But, if almost all camp, few go alone to die and feed, it's instant game over for Human team. That's the fact. Unless aliens are stupid, and feed the campers to s3, and campers decide that "we got good stuff, we should go outside of base too" and suprisingly, they win. I've seen that, on both sides (although they're random, and rare.)

One way to get new players inside of game, is that you NEVER leave your squadmates. You'll attack in group, you take few buildings, say that they weaken every time we attack (in group, preferably), you get more behind you or cover pair/group, you take few eggs and more tubes/trappers/hives, and maybe overmind... there should be possibility, that they start keep pressing alien team. And when humans go in groups, the game should start feel fun, when both teams attack. And none should go EVER alone. Even I try to pair with teammate, whatever skill he/she has.

Just try pair with newbs/n00bs, and try tell them to pair with someone or go in group.

Too bad that few actually do that.

[amgh]

 camping is a pretty legit strategy, but camping in MW2 and trem are pretty different. In trem, camping usually involves ret hugging, which pisses everyone off

[Conzul]

Stick to 1.2, because even with all of it's roughness, I think it really solved the camping problem.

1.1 = Humans camp, then rush and either lose or win. Aliens constantly rushing due to high regen rate.

1.2 = Aliens actually camp a little bit, to regenerate faster. More confrontation in NO-Man's land. Human structures do not save campers anywhere near as much as 1.1 Dretches can actually enter human base and have two seconds to kill without being shot at by rets. In 1.2, rets can't do anything to a skilled dretch or goon.

camping is a pretty legit strategy, but camping in MW2 and trem are pretty different. In trem, camping usually involves ret hugging, which pisses everyone off

True but there are some concepts that carry over between games.

[Venkman]

You know, Conzul, you might have just changed my mind on 1.2.

I think I might've underestimated the changes. At first, it felt like trying to drive standard with new shoes: just awkward.

But how you put makes me appreciate the changes a bit more. And I think F50 will be glad to hear it. He spent a lot of time trying to explain the same thing, but I think I was just too closed minded then because of how bad my first few 1.2 games went. I'm sure that's just the learning curve, though.

[Conzul]

You know, Conzul, you might have just changed my mind on 1.2.

I think I might've underestimated the changes. At first, it felt like trying to drive standard with new shoes: just awkward.

But how you put makes me appreciate the changes a bit more. And I think F50 will be glad to hear it. He spent a lot of time trying to explain the same thing, but I think I was just too closed minded then because of how bad my first few 1.2 games went. I'm sure that's just the learning curve, though.

Yeah..... all of the changes boil down to one new truth: Each alien's life is more valuable. With the nerfs, increases in $$value, and various increase in human strengths, you just have to be that much more careful. And, when you do earn a goon or mara, it's that much more valuable than it was in 1.1, where I remember the contents of my evo wallet was never a problem. Back then it was harder to identify with the alien you picked and be careful with it because you could get it again so easily. Now, a goon feels almost as vulnerable as a 1.1 human, which is a weird feeling but I kinda like it. To make it in 1.2 just learn to dretch. It's actually the same difficulty as 1.1, with some tradeoffs. I'm making a video guide to dretching, halfway done. If a bunch of noobs pay attention to it, expect the win ratio to start changing again

Edit: I can identify with the first few games of 1.2 thing. It's rather like having a bucket of cold water thrown over you, if you're a 1.1 vet. If you can weather it, you'll see that it's actually more balanced and works better than 1.1 did. After a week or two, you'll actually start to kick ass. Just learn the dretch, and you're set. I forgo higher classes sometimes, because I'm so confident about dretching, and because it takes so long to heal as a goon or mara.

[F50]

But how you put makes me appreciate the changes a bit more. And I think F50 will be glad to hear it.

F50 here, glad to hear it . And I think you'll enjoy the new marauder...zaaaap

As for camping, Honestly its a good thing. Its like a tug of war, there are two teams going at it, and in order to win they have to get a certain amount of advantage. Without camping, the amount of advantage you must get to win is very small. However, when the winning team camps just to exhaust the loosing team...well you can see how that would be monumentally annoying in a tug of war match.

[Venkman]

Very true.

I guess what I mean is specifically when the whole team camps the entire time, except for maybe that one pro who's just gonna try and take as many Dretches and Maras down as he can before he feeds himself to the Aliens because he's fed up that his team will simply NOT rush. At ALL. Period. They won't even leave the base.

 It sounds dumb, I know. But (from what I've seen, anyway) this happens on AA and BB a lot. Like WAY too much. And I guess I was really just hoping some of those WhiteName noobs would actually check the forum and understand the error of their ways.

Maybe I just need to find servers with better players because there's really only so much that killing noobs can teach you.

I just get such good ping there...

And you know what the worst part is? The next round, these same endless campers will go Alien and FEED like MOTHERFUCKERS.

And then they come on the forum and write stupid threads like "LUCIFER CANNON IS TOO OVERPOWERED" because they can't learn to Dretch against three helms leading a Lucy suit into their base. I just hope that, when they're done, these guys look around here to see if they can find out why they keep sucking so hard.

Then maybe the few pros that DO come on AA and BB from time to time can help cultivate these players into something fun to play against.

That will be a truly great day.

... Anyway, thanks for the tips on all the 1.2 changes. I definitely understand them a bit better now. And yes, the ZAP finally has its due.

As for the Dretch, that slight speed increase really does make A LOT of difference.

...Especially when you're floor-spinnin' around those nakeds.

[Conzul]

As for the Dretch, that slight speed increase really does make A LOT of difference.

...Especially when you're floor-spinnin' around those nakeds.

It's an art, man. I LOVE the new dretch, but with the bug where humans get full credit for a patial kill, it's a pain if you die a few times.

[BlackX32]

(although beware the WarlockBot)

One pro, lots of newbs or random players.... and not much in-between of "pro/n00b" players, like me. --> Causes to me: leave the game -.-

But to topic, yes?

Camping is acceptable, if one or two stays in base, repairing stuff and fending off random adv maras and adv goons. But, if almost all camp, few go alone to die and feed, it's instant game over for Human team. That's the fact. Unless aliens are stupid, and feed the campers to s3, and campers decide that "we got good stuff, we should go outside of base too" and suprisingly, they win. I've seen that, on both sides (although they're random, and rare.)

One way to get new players inside of game, is that you NEVER leave your squadmates. You'll attack in group, you take few buildings, say that they weaken every time we attack (in group, preferably), you get more behind you or cover pair/group, you take few eggs and more tubes/trappers/hives, and maybe overmind... there should be possibility, that they start keep pressing alien team. And when humans go in groups, the game should start feel fun, when both teams attack. And none should go EVER alone. Even I try to pair with teammate, whatever skill he/she has.

Just try pair with newbs/n00bs, and try tell them to pair with someone or go in group.

Too bad that few actually do that.

when i'm a lisk I go alone and find a hiding place to drop down on a lone human's head and instant death for them. They can't move or aim and i get a strait shot at their head

[Venkman]

Yeah, I realized recently just how badass bassi is. Now I'm trying to figure out how to build the perfect lisk-nest using the right angle near OM and floating tubes.

[raptor3312]

my opinion on camping is that it's a valid strategy, but if abused, it ruins the gameplay. However certain situations like 2 vs. 1 or being outteched may require alot of camping to atleast last longer. But I couldn't help but notice that people mostly complain about camping when they are camping thenselves. And campers really aren't that hard to kill, so honestly why the fuss?

[Venkman]

my opinion on camping is that it's a valid strategy, but if abused, it ruins the gameplay. However certain situations like 2 vs. 1 or being outteched may require alot of camping to atleast last longer. But I couldn't help but notice that people mostly complain about camping when they are camping thenselves. And campers really aren't that hard to kill, so honestly why the fuss?

I agree that most of the time, when someone (usually an Alien player) complains that the other team is camping too much, it just shows their own impatience and/or general lack of understanding for the game's mechanics.

When playing as Human, camping is an essential part of any good game (especially in 1.1). Say you're not a total pro and you respawn back at an empty base. If your team isn't currently in the midst of a devastating Alien-base rush, any reasonable Human is going to camp and wait for at least one other player to show up before rushing back into the fray. I prefer 3-man squads if it's possible, especially if we're playing on a pub server and the Aliens have already been fed to S3.

There's no use suiting up and heading out alone if the first corner you come to has a camping Rant waiting around it...
  \_

Also, there's nothing quite as soul-crushing as a well-timed Human rush. And to pull off one of those, you're going to need a patient team that knows how to camp right.

Though, it seems that most of the AA noobs who I wrote this thread for don't have the kind of attention deficit required to understand such a concept. When they camp, it's for the ENTIRE ROUND. literally, until the Rants are tearing down their base.

What's even worse is that these aforementioned noobs are probably the same ones who, when they go Alien, can't stop typing "FUK CAMPERS!" into Console Chat while simultaneously feeding an endless supply of Dretches at an H-Base they ALREADY CLAIM TO KNOW is packed with humans.

They'll learn, though... Someday.

[kharnov]

Venkman, I enjoy you. What would you say to collaborating on the in-depth guides we are starting on soon? I think it'd be hard to trump your guide.

[Venkman]

Venkman, I enjoy you. What would you say to collaborating on the in-depth guides we are starting on soon? I think it'd be hard to trump your guide.

For sure. And I'm glad you liked the guide. I put a lot of love into it.

I recently had to sell my PS3 and, therefor, Trem is now officially my favorite game and the only thing I really have time to play anymore. I've been wanting to make a donation but I'm also currently broke as a joke (which is of course why I sold my PS3).

Anyway... Doing this would be almost as good because, at the very least, I'd be helping the cause. So, yeah, I'm down.