More on Rant

[Conzul]

I believe that in 1.2, the Tyrant is basically underpowered, but situationally overpowered. It's trample is devastating in hallways, but not all maps are made up of hallways.

    Also, it's very easy to saw a tyrant with a Psaw, or to pusle it to death. With its reduced health, and all that point blank damage, and it's slower swipe, it displays its basic underpowerment. Aside from trample, it has no way to deal with saws, flamethrowers, or pulse rifles.

    So I think we should add some arcana: Add a light knockback to it's primary (slash) attack. This would serve to knock Psaw wiseguys back for a brief duration if a hit was landed, putting them on an even field. It would also be good against flamers and pulse rifles, both of which do their damage at close range.
    And while not serious support for the idea, if you're hit by a several-hundred pound alien, you're going to be knocked back, no questions asked. So that would be nice for realism. I don't think the knockback should apply to battlesuits, though. 

[jez]

Also, it's very easy to saw a tyrant with a Psaw, or to pusle it to death.

For equally skilled human vs tyrant? I wouldn't call it easy.

[Conzul]

Also, it's very easy to saw a tyrant with a Psaw, or to pusle it to death.

For equally skilled human vs tyrant? I wouldn't call it easy.

Some would.

[BREASTICLES]

rant is not a moron hes smart like a elephant and big too like one u shouldnt say that about the rant because if ur the one controlling it than that means youre the moron so hahah got ya there didnt i?

[Saliva]

I don't see how you came to such conclusions. Tyrant has tremendous advantage against any single human even if you aren't in a hallway. Trample can be used well without walls to push the human against and swiping is strong enough to win any close encounter.

[CreatureofHell]

If you push Painsaws away then they have no chance at all, which makes the Painsaw useless against Tyrants.

[Conzul]

I don't see how you came to such conclusions. Tyrant has tremendous advantage against any single human even if you aren't in a hallway. Trample can be used well without walls to push the human against and swiping is strong enough to win any close encounter.

OMG things are exactly the opposite of how you said. A Tyrant's only advantage is in hallways, in every other type of encounter the human has recourse to dodge, and dancing away. Trample is hit or miss without walls, as humans just slide out of the way like snow in front of a bulldozer. Trample + Slash is enough to take out one opponent, but in an open area with multiple mediocre humans, rant doesn't stand a chance.

If you push Painsaws away then they have no chance at all, which makes the Painsaw useless against Tyrants.

They don't deserve a chance. They're only 100cr. Anyway I don't mean pounce-strength knockback, something lighter.

rant is not a moron hes smart like a elephant and big too like one u shouldnt say that about the rant because if ur the one controlling it than that means youre the moron so hahah got ya there didnt i?

Go troll elsewhere, I'm being serious here.

[Celestial_Rage]

I don't see any problem with the current Tyrant. Sure it isn't the beast it was in 1.1 and you can no longer easily take out 3 chainsuits (It' still possible though, under the right conditions). You merely have to adjust your gameplay to compensate for the changes.

[Conzul]

I don't see any problem with the current Tyrant. Sure it isn't the beast it was in 1.1 and you can no longer easily take out 3 chainsuits (It' still possible though, under the right conditions). You merely have to adjust your gameplay to compensate for the changes.

I have, but that's because I'm badass. Games should be engineered towards mediocre players, not Pro's. If you think it should be, then we'd all be running around with less than 10HP max.

[UniqPhoeniX]

If it was engineered towards mediocre players only, all pro players would have had enough a long time ago. But your 'point' is irrelevant, mediocre rant vs mediocre bsuits is similar to if both sides were pro, maybe even worse 'situationally', since luck/chance matter more for less skilled players.
Personally I don't like the rant, tho it's an improvement over the 1.1 rant. All fights end too fast with it, and you are right that it depends on the situation a lot.

[Meisseli]

Unless you really want to go fight a tyrant with just a painsaw the credits you are using are 500, not 100. Only a battlesuit painsaw has any chance too, and even then it is very situational or merely because the tyrant is failing to do a thing.

You're asking to nerf the rant because, with your knockback, chomping anything other than a painsaw will become harder.

Also, WTF, Tyrants have problems against FLAMERS?

[Saliva]

OMG things are exactly the opposite of how you said. A Tyrant's only advantage is in hallways, in every other type of encounter the human has recourse to dodge, and dancing away. Trample is hit or miss without walls, as humans just slide out of the way like snow in front of a bulldozer. Trample + Slash is enough to take out one opponent, but in an open area with multiple mediocre humans, rant doesn't stand a chance.

Play more.

I don't see any problem with the current Tyrant. Sure it isn't the beast it was in 1.1 and you can no longer easily take out 3 chainsuits (It' still possible though, under the right conditions). You merely have to adjust your gameplay to compensate for the changes.

I have, but that's because I'm badass. Games should be engineered towards mediocre players, not Pro's. If you think it should be, then we'd all be running around with less than 10HP max.

You definitely haven't adjusted and aren't a badass because you obviously don't know how to use a tyrant. Also could you care to explain why pro players would want to have less than 10hp? I'm seriously interested.

[Conzul]

OMG things are exactly the opposite of how you said. A Tyrant's only advantage is in hallways, in every other type of encounter the human has recourse to dodge, and dancing away. Trample is hit or miss without walls, as humans just slide out of the way like snow in front of a bulldozer. Trample + Slash is enough to take out one opponent, but in an open area with multiple mediocre humans, rant doesn't stand a chance.

Play more.

I don't see any problem with the current Tyrant. Sure it isn't the beast it was in 1.1 and you can no longer easily take out 3 chainsuits (It' still possible though, under the right conditions). You merely have to adjust your gameplay to compensate for the changes.

I have, but that's because I'm badass. Games should be engineered towards mediocre players, not Pro's. If you think it should be, then we'd all be running around with less than 10HP max.

You definitely haven't adjusted and aren't a badass because you obviously don't know how to use a tyrant. Also could you care to explain why pro players would want to have less than 10hp? I'm seriously interested.

Few play more than I. I mean really playing, not chatting and logging hours.

The 10HP reference goes back to the question, why do certain aliens have more hitpoints than others? Why don't all humans and aliens have equal hitpoints? Hitpoints are supposed to be proportionate to: the cost of the class; the size of the class (how easily does it get hit), etc. The more Pro you are, the more HP your alien has after a single encounter. A noob may kill a human with rant and escape with 100HP. A Pro may kill a human with rant and escape with 320HP. The difference isn't the alien, it's the player. This is so far off topic, IDK how I got here. The thread was about the possibility of adding small knockback to rant swipes to specifically help against painsaws. A tyrant does not always have the opportunity to trample, since we can no longer charge it while walking into a wall. Though impossible for a mediocre player, a Pro player can kill one or more rants with a single psaw/armor combo, in one life. Seen it. Maybe you should play more, I thought you were a 1.1 guy.

[Saliva]

Few play more than I. I mean really playing, not chatting and logging hours.

Play even more.

The 10HP reference goes back to the question, why do certain aliens have more hitpoints than others? Why don't all humans and aliens have equal hitpoints? Hitpoints are supposed to be proportionate to: the cost of the class; the size of the class (how easily does it get hit), etc. The more Pro you are, the more HP your alien has after a single encounter. A noob may kill a human with rant and escape with 100HP. A Pro may kill a human with rant and escape with 320HP. The difference isn't the alien, it's the player. This is so far off topic, IDK how I got here. The thread was about the possibility of adding small knockback to rant swipes to specifically help against painsaws. A tyrant does not always have the opportunity to trample, since we can no longer charge it while walking into a wall. Though impossible for a mediocre player, a Pro player can kill one or more rants with a single psaw/armor combo, in one life. Seen it. Maybe you should play more, I thought you were a 1.1 guy.

So you are saying that having 10 hp is ok because you don't take that much damage because you are so pro? What if two pros are fighting each other what happens then? I play 1.2 exclusively and have used tyrant enough to know how to use it.

[Meisseli]

Stop failing with your tyrant Conzul 

[Conzul]

So you are saying that having 10 hp is ok because you don't take that much damage because you are so pro?

Exactly. Thank you for getting that.

I play 1.2 exclusively and have used tyrant enough to know how to use it.

Yes, but using the logic ^above^, this doesn't mean rant is properly balanced, it just means you're pro (or on the way). My (not original) issue is that if you can survive as rant, you're a very good player, despite other alien classes. This is because the tyrant is not easy enough for noobs/mediocre players to use because it's balanced toward pro players, who will either only lose 50HP, or die completely in a planned suicide rush.

Stop failing with your tyrant Conzul 

I don't like you. Go away.

[Meisseli]

A tyrant is this easy to use: hold the right mouse button, aim at the human, release.

I really wonder what makes the tyrant so much harder to use than any other alien.

[Dracone]

No alien should be used for full on lone confrontations of well-armed groups, and that includes the rant. End of story.

[Conzul]

No alien should be used for full on lone confrontations of well-armed groups, and that includes the rant. End of story.

I don't care, I'm talking about a singular problem with the Rant's vulnerability to Painsaws.
Who are you, anyway?

[Meisseli]

No, you were talking about problem with tyrant against pulse rifles, flamers and painsaws.

I repeat:

Unless you really want to go fight a tyrant with just a painsaw the credits you are using are 500, not 100. Only a battlesuit painsaw has any chance too, and even then it is very situational or merely because the tyrant is failing to do a thing.

You're asking to nerf the rant because, with your knockback, chomping anything other than a painsaw will become harder.

Also, WTF, Tyrants have problems against FLAMERS?

Perhaps instead of making your own problems with the tyrant a tremulous standard you should probably just deal with them. I don't have the slightest idea why you have a problem with painsaws against all the weapons in human arsenal but they die like the others. Trample - if not possible - chomp - if not possible - flee.

[F50]

No alien should be used for full on lone confrontations of well-armed groups, and that includes the rant. End of story.

I don't care, I'm talking about a singular problem with the Rant's vulnerability to Painsaws.
Who are you, anyway?

Dracone is a long time player who can compete on the level of Meisseli and warlock. However I don't understand why you think the tyrant is vulnerable to painsaws. A rant severely outranges the painsaw and is faster, hardier, and can do more damage (with headshots) than can the painsaw. Yes two battlesuit-painsaws can be a fearsome sight if you don't use trample, but then again, two pulse rifles is usually worse.

[Saliva]

Conzul, finds your lack of faith in it's abilities disturbing. Stop posting or it will follow you home and devour you.

[Venkman]

Man, don't check the forum for a day and you miss a great discussion. Here's my two cents, or whatever it's worth:

I never liked 1.1 Rant, mainly because of its size and general lack of challenge. But I have to say I love the 1.2 Rant. It's trample can take out even the most badass of Pros if you time it right and the Crush is a free attack with no recoil and a devastating amount of damage. So far, I've only crushed one Human who didn't die instantly and it was a bsuit with full health who I then promptly trampled to death.

I know the debate was psaw's value compared to it's damage against Rants. And it's true those pro-psaws ARE a bitch, but so are pro-Dretches against a bsuit. And Dretches are free. Also, in my experience, an unskilled psaw is about as challenging as an unskilled Dretch.

It's not the exact same thing, but I think the concept is the same:
In the hands of a good player, even the cheapest weaponry can be used to take down the most expensive opponent.

It's just my opinion, but I think there's a fair amount of logic in that kind of gameplay. It also makes sense simply because, in reality, chainsaws are a truly vicious weapon. And for a Human to purposefully give up the use of a ranged weapon while in a battle where their enemy's attacks are mostly melee, there needs to be some kind of incentive.