Random kicking and lack of admin assistance on US Official server 1.2

[Bunker Gate Seven]

He probably didn't see what went down so it was your word against theirs.

Anybody who can play a game can see if a ret or other structure has no power and if a builder is making any effort to correct it.

Then blame that player that misinterpreted your actions, not the admins who are not omniscient.

And if you've had years or whatever to contemplate the matter, please do separate the Official Servers, what this topic is about, from any other server you've played for 3 years or so. From what it seems like you've only experienced one count of mistreatment which can't be even counted as an admin's fault.

And for the record, this thread was indeed about one vote-kick, not some discussion about how trem community is full of evil misdoers. That's what your original post is about.

I have almost exclusively played US official servers (esp 1.1), so I feel no need to seperate this - and since 1.2 I have only played this one server.  I don't know which previous post to point out that its not the first case, just the first voiced case?  The continuation of the treatment was where I drew issue with an admin, which for the (n)th time I've gone past due to difference in opinion on admin of servers and the fact they were not there for the whole event(s).  As "for the record", I expanded on my original post considering the original post was written between being harrassed and returning to talk to an admin (a reasonably short period of time).  I did blame the player and mentioned him - Trogdor - very early on.  So you are indeed incorrect in that statement.

[Meisseli]

First of all, there were no official servers in 1.1. Second of all, you have not at all told us what this continuing mistreatment is about, so I doubt we can influence that in any way. We can only comment on this single, poor case you have.

[Bunker Gate Seven]

First of all, there were no official servers in 1.1. Second of all, you have not at all told us what this continuing mistreatment is about, so I doubt we can influence that in any way. We can only comment on this single, poor case you have.

Okay, if there were no >official< 1.1 servers there certainly were servers which were admin'd by official developers, etc - which may have been a better choice of words.  I do apologise for the symantics.

The single poor case I have is reasonably well documented by the admin who was present for part of the time (of which I was not).  I did not ask for your comment on this "single, poor case" however I am happy you contributed.  As I have left all but the forums, I feel no need to provide further evidence of other examples and am only still on the forums out of sense of good natured arguement and a slight loyalty to furthering the cause of free software under the right circumstances.

[janev]

Ok so...
Admin issue: Resolved
Eugenics as a prerequisite for access to the internet(troglodyte or whatever his name was): Unresolved

I don't know what to tell you. The internet is abound with idiots and I feel for you, but to get past the cretins you need to elevate yourself above them. With a known name people tend to vote no and admins cancel votes. The odd votekick may still happen.

In future if you have a problem take it up with an admin in real time; either through IRC or messaging admins(/a). You could also ask an admin to !setlevel you to level 1 so you can be recognized.

[Meisseli]

First of all, there were no official servers in 1.1. Second of all, you have not at all told us what this continuing mistreatment is about, so I doubt we can influence that in any way. We can only comment on this single, poor case you have.

Okay, if there were no >official< 1.1 servers there certainly were servers which were admin'd by official developers, etc - which may have been a better choice of words.  I do apologise for the symantics.

The single poor case I have is reasonably well documented by the admin who was present for part of the time (of which I was not).  I did not ask for your comment on this "single, poor case" however I am happy you contributed.  As I have left all but the forums, I feel no need to provide further evidence of other examples and am only still on the forums out of sense of good natured arguement and a slight loyalty to furthering the cause of free software under the right circumstances.

I doubt anyone can read your mind here, so that's the only case we can comment on. Other "lacks of admin responsibility" and "admin abuse" are mere speculation and we don't even know if they existed.

No, official servers are official servers. There were no servers with the official status before the release of 1.2 GPP and the matters that happened there are entirely different things and I ask you to leave them out from your view of point. Those servers are privately-run, it's like entering another person's home, they decide the rules and have the right to ban you on sight if they wish. The official servers on the other hand have reasonable rules and they are well-policed. We have no power over any misdeeds happening on some other server but on the official servers we are providing everyone a nice environment to enjoy the game.

All in all, some good advices: Play on the official servers, make a "reputation" like janev said and you don't ever have to bother yourself with griefers, admin abuse and so on. If there ever happens to be problems, hop to IRC and ask an admin to resolve the matter. These make the "continued mistreatment" go away. It's a mighty good game, the new version.

[Bunker Gate Seven]

Ok so...
Admin issue: Resolved
Eugenics as a prerequisite for access to the internet(troglodyte or whatever his name was): Unresolved

I don't know what to tell you. The internet is abound with idiots and I feel for you, but to get past the cretins you need to elevate yourself above them. With a known name people tend to vote no and admins cancel votes. The odd votekick may still happen.

In future if you have a problem take it up with an admin in real time; either through IRC or messaging admins(/a). You could also ask an admin to !setlevel you to level 1 so you can be recognized.

I applaude you for one of the most logical and unbiased responses so far.  I am not a fan of IRC so theres a limitation I have self imposed.  I am however very positively influence by your comments.  I'm well aware of the internet to idiot ratio but thankyou for bringing that to the front of what is really part of the point.  Despite so much time playing I was unaware of the /a option.  Life is always about learning, and I just hope people learn something from this whole experience.  At least one person (other than myself).

[Bunker Gate Seven]

First of all, there were no official servers in 1.1. Second of all, you have not at all told us what this continuing mistreatment is about, so I doubt we can influence that in any way. We can only comment on this single, poor case you have.

Okay, if there were no >official< 1.1 servers there certainly were servers which were admin'd by official developers, etc - which may have been a better choice of words.  I do apologise for the symantics.

The single poor case I have is reasonably well documented by the admin who was present for part of the time (of which I was not).  I did not ask for your comment on this "single, poor case" however I am happy you contributed.  As I have left all but the forums, I feel no need to provide further evidence of other examples and am only still on the forums out of sense of good natured arguement and a slight loyalty to furthering the cause of free software under the right circumstances.

I doubt anyone can read your mind here, so that's the only case we can comment on. Other "lacks of admin responsibility" and "admin abuse" are mere speculation and we don't even know if they existed.

No, official servers are official servers. There were no servers with the official status before the release of 1.2 GPP and the matters that happened there are entirely different things and I ask you to leave them out from your view of point. Those servers are privately-run, it's like entering another person's home, they decide the rules and have the right to ban you on sight if they wish. The official servers on the other hand have reasonable rules and they are well-policed. We have no power over any misdeeds happening on some other server but on the official servers we are providing everyone a nice environment to enjoy the game.

All in all, some good advices: Play on the official servers, make a "reputation" like janev said and you don't ever have to bother yourself with griefers, admin abuse and so on. If there ever happens to be problems, hop to IRC and ask an admin to resolve the matter. These make the "continued mistreatment" go away. It's a mighty good game, the new version.

Well thanks for adding little value to the thread.  Stating the obvious has no value and I have never said I have limited myself to 1.2 servers having only 1 instance - only the 1 that I gave.  I am not intererested in rejoining to get demos of others.  I can't be convinced to do so.  Sorry.  Lets leave that up to prospective players and current players to make up their own minds.

[Meisseli]

You didn't provide a demo in the first post either, yet you told us what was wrong and we told you how to fix it.

Until you tell us what other things are wrong and stop merely saying "there is poor admin responsibility" et cetera, there is no way for us to fix anything. Nobody can make the official server better with some abstract statements like you are constantly making. Without a problem there can't be a fix. You imply there are other cases where you were treated badly, what are those? Were they on the official server even?

Until you give me something concrete I - and everyone - is just going to assume you do indeed have nothing but one, poor case of a vote-kick that led you to think the official servers are policed badly. And I don't think that is enough.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Lol thread. Noone here cares and nothing will change. Considering it took them ~ a week to respond to the TJW/john tk threads.

[Meisseli]

Lol thread. Noone here cares and nothing will change. Considering it took them ~ a week to respond to the TJW/john tk threads.

I believe that's because nobody actually did anything to contact developers/server owners, just talked crap in a thread for three pages.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Then what is this subforum for if the people that matter don't watch it?

[Meisseli]

Then what is this subforum for if the people that matter don't watch it?

I guess for admins that are doing the admining. Aka level 4 and lower.

I don't think there's anyone from the level 5 that play the game but in very rare occasions.

[F50]

The incident *did* reach the ears of some of the devs, and rather early. In fact by the time the main thread had started console had already kicked him at least once. I believe it was by choice that there was little public response from the devs.

And after the devs took setlevel from US1, I believe there has only been one valid complaint of admin abuse, and it was handled in a timely manner. http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13839.0 .

[Bunker Gate Seven]

You didn't provide a demo in the first post either, yet you told us what was wrong and we told you how to fix it.

Until you tell us what other things are wrong and stop merely saying "there is poor admin responsibility" et cetera, there is no way for us to fix anything. Nobody can make the official server better with some abstract statements like you are constantly making. Without a problem there can't be a fix. You imply there are other cases where you were treated badly, what are those? Were they on the official server even?

Until you give me something concrete I - and everyone - is just going to assume you do indeed have nothing but one, poor case of a vote-kick that led you to think the official servers are policed badly. And I don't think that is enough.

Again I >already< said I have no other specific examples to provide evidence for.  Does that mean everyobdy assumes there is no problem, or just you?  You imply your opinion must be correct and held by all - then please learn more about what an opinion is.  I've put mine up for people to take it and do something or not.  Whether its simply being vigilant and looking into it, or to stop somebody wasting their time playing, or some other course of action I have not thought about, then I have achieved something.  Look at all the views and replies.

[Meisseli]

Indeed I am correct. A suspect is not guilty unless proven otherwise and everybody indeed assumes a car is working like it should unless there are problems visible. Saying there are problems in the way the official servers are admined and then failing to provide any valid examples makes you look like a liar or one with a biased, poorly justified opinion. There is no problems in the official servers or in the way it's admined. Admins are mostly good and do their job efficiently, and action is swiftly taken for valid complaints received.

What this thread with all its views and replies (which, btw, are quite average if you look around the forums) has managed to do is:

1) A response to your problem
2) A lot of flaming and spam.

Nothing much else really. Oh well, like janev said, better quit wasting my time.

o/

[Bunker Gate Seven]

Indeed I am correct. A suspect is not guilty unless proven otherwise and everybody indeed assumes a car is working like it should unless there are problems visible. Saying there are problems in the way the official servers are admined and then failing to provide any valid examples makes you look like a liar or one with a biased, poorly justified opinion. There is no problems in the official servers or in the way it's admined. Admins are mostly good and do their job efficiently, and action is swiftly taken for valid complaints received.

What this thread with all its views and replies (which, btw, are quite average if you look around the forums) has managed to do is:

1) A response to your problem
2) A lot of flaming and spam.

Nothing much else really. Oh well, like janev said, better quit wasting my time.

o/

Just saying you are correct does not make it so.  Now your assumptions on "suspects are innocent until guilty" is based on an adversial system of justice which is not shared with a large part of the world.  Now on top of that, click up the top of the possible ordered columns on replies and views and see where this lands.  Might interest you.  Taste bitter?

[F50]

Now your assumptions on "suspects are innocent until guilty" is based on an adversial system of justice which is not shared with a large part of the world.

In case you haven't noticed, the server to which you are referring is in the US. And its not just justice which this is applied to. See car example above. However now you are grasping at straws to keep this alive. Where is your argument that US1 is poorly adminned? I believe it is without valid examples.

[janev]

So...
Complaint noted: Check
Frustration vented: Check(I mean you did have two whole pages)

Shall we move on?

[Bunker Gate Seven]

Now your assumptions on "suspects are innocent until guilty" is based on an adversial system of justice which is not shared with a large part of the world.

In case you haven't noticed, the server to which you are referring is in the US. And its not just justice which this is applied to. See car example above. However now you are grasping at straws to keep this alive. Where is your argument that US1 is poorly adminned? I believe it is without valid examples.

All you need is for a few more players to make demos or condumps.  I'm not rejoining just to do that.  I don't know anybody who would care enough to do that now or have done that over the last few years.  The car example you refer to is a little too left field for me to understand...

[janev]

*getting the last word post*

[Bunker Gate Seven]

*getting the last word post*

why? 

[your face]

*getting the last word post*

why? 

because you obviously want it more than anything else.

[Bunker Gate Seven]

*getting the last word post*

why? 

because you obviously want it more than anything else.

but you just attempted it? 

[your face]

*getting the last word post*

why? 

because you obviously want it more than anything else.

but you just attempted it? 

I never denied that.

[Bunker Gate Seven]

*getting the last word post*

why? 

because you obviously want it more than anything else.

but you just attempted it? 

I never denied that.

Just bringing it to everyone's attention.

[SlackerLinux]

soon a mods going to get the last word