Third Race

[Neo]

3 would have to be a maximum, as the difficulty level is proportional to the number of sides you have to face at a time.

[holyknight]

third race = phychic (don't know how to spell) powers? Like protoss (starcraft), Eldars (warhammer 40k) and etc.

[whitebear]

ballance could be dificult or end up
aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" >
and so on

[holyknight]

ballance could be dificult or end up
aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" > aliens > humans > "third race" >
and so on

just like starcraft

[Voidling]

Concerning balance - even with balanced teams, it would still all depend on player factor. Now that I said that, why not add fourth race and make it Aliens + "third race" vs Humans + "fourth race" or any combination?
Say, what if you've got psychick race sided with aliens fighting humans with sentient machines? That would open some teamplay possibilities, and more so if the abilities like cloaking, teleporting and infiltrating were included.

[werepants]

'toss in Starcraft are not just psionic, they are also very technology/ai based.  think reaver and carrier.  

it would be very kewl to have an alien weapon with robot projectiles that could be controlled psychically and had a slow recharge rate like the dragoon barb, but could be steered along the ground and exploded on impact.  the downside would be that the user was totally immobile while doing this, and the projectiles would move slowly and would be die harmlessly if you shot them.

i think since humans have long range and ok movement, while aliens have short range and awesome movement, give the new aliens low hitpoints and average mobility, but with stealth, high damage, and AI technology.

they could have a walker that is like a cross between the battlesuit and dragoon - heavily armored, moves in one direction quickly, but not that maneuvarable in tight quarters.  also could have unlimited ammo but a slow fire rate.

it would be interesting trying to find a balance there.  i have always thought it would be loads of fun to play SC in first person.

[techhead]

'toss in Starcraft are not just psionic, they are also very technology/ai based.  think reaver and carrier.  
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it would be interesting trying to find a balance there.  i have always thought it would be loads of fun to play SC in first person.

And Blizzard didn't understand how we felt when they canceled Starcraft: Ghost

Also, although the Protoss have AI and Tech, all their technology is powered by psionic generators. Anyway, my categories are rough guides made to cover a variety of concepts.

[ShadowNinjaDudeMan]

I dunno... You'd have to plan out a completely different set of rules for how they evolve, move, and attack.

Here's one idea:

Since we have one race that has a technological motif (Humans) and another race with a biological motif (Aliens) we could have a race with a blend of both technological and biological features.

Like the Strogg. It would be fitting, since this is a Quake based game, to have a Strogg-style race. Besides, cyborg/zombie types appear in almost every other FPS series, like Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Halo, System Shock, and so forth. Let's call them the... Abominations. Because they're so hideous. The Aliens reject them because their biological impurity offends their instincts, and the humans reject them because they want to assimilate them. They tend to look similar to the Makron of Quake 4: A half-arthropodal, half-humanoid cyborg.

Note that the existing races so far have their upgrade system based on merit, for either building or killing. This can be spent on items from a stationary armory, or evolution from one caste to another. For the Abominations, merit is spent on either Shifting or Implants. The Shifting allows for a builder or fighter to change to different castes, each with a different set of implants available. The implants are likeable to weapons: These are used to attack. The castes are likeable to abilities: They allow an Abomination to, at the press of the C/crouch key (Hence why they are half-arthropodal: To give an excuse as to why they can't crouch) accomplish feats such as turning invisible (but not to built defenses, emphasizing the importance of good building), teleporting, and so on. To compensate for these most frightening powers, the Implants for each Caste will be nerfed according to the effectiveness of that caste's ability. Implants will have to be abotained at a "Material Processor" structure. However, Caste shifting can be done in similar manner to alien evolution.

Movement: Humans can walk and fly. Aliens can wallwalk and pounce. Abominations will have their movement tied to their caste. Weak castes will have invisibility, or teleportation, allowing them to move unseen. Strong castes will have to walk, like the Alien Tyrant, or Human BSuit. They might have healing auras, or radar, or something else to compensate.

Attacks: Aliens have to get up close to do damage. Humans can shoot stuff at range. Implants will need to achieve a middleground between ranged and melee. For inspiration, one Implant may allow for an energy blade to shoot out at an opponent, then retract quickly. These blades may be mounted on tentacles, to flail towards an enemy. Stuff like that.

This is only an outline of an idea, not a fully developed one, mind you. Note that the unnatural properties for this hypothetical Abomination race are also appropriate for a Demonic race.

That is actually quite well thought out, so I shall not flame, it would give a bit of uncertainity as you creep along the corridors of AR, what the hell will I meet.

Im all for Admonitions, whoops.

[KobraKaine]

I dunno... You'd have to plan out a completely different set of rules for how they evolve, move, and attack.

Here's one idea:

Since we have one race that has a technological motif (Humans) and another race with a biological motif (Aliens) we could have a race with a blend of both technological and biological features.

Like the Strogg. It would be fitting, since this is a Quake based game, to have a Strogg-style race. Besides, cyborg/zombie types appear in almost every other FPS series, like Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Halo, System Shock, and so forth. Let's call them the... Abominations. Because they're so hideous. The Aliens reject them because their biological impurity offends their instincts, and the humans reject them because they want to assimilate them. They tend to look similar to the Makron of Quake 4: A half-arthropodal, half-humanoid cyborg.

Note that the existing races so far have their upgrade system based on merit, for either building or killing. This can be spent on items from a stationary armory, or evolution from one caste to another. For the Abominations, merit is spent on either Shifting or Implants. The Shifting allows for a builder or fighter to change to different castes, each with a different set of implants available. The implants are likeable to weapons: These are used to attack. The castes are likeable to abilities: They allow an Abomination to, at the press of the C/crouch key (Hence why they are half-arthropodal: To give an excuse as to why they can't crouch) accomplish feats such as turning invisible (but not to built defenses, emphasizing the importance of good building), teleporting, and so on. To compensate for these most frightening powers, the Implants for each Caste will be nerfed according to the effectiveness of that caste's ability. Implants will have to be abotained at a "Material Processor" structure. However, Caste shifting can be done in similar manner to alien evolution.

Movement: Humans can walk and fly. Aliens can wallwalk and pounce. Abominations will have their movement tied to their caste. Weak castes will have invisibility, or teleportation, allowing them to move unseen. Strong castes will have to walk, like the Alien Tyrant, or Human BSuit. They might have healing auras, or radar, or something else to compensate.

Attacks: Aliens have to get up close to do damage. Humans can shoot stuff at range. Implants will need to achieve a middleground between ranged and melee. For inspiration, one Implant may allow for an energy blade to shoot out at an opponent, then retract quickly. These blades may be mounted on tentacles, to flail towards an enemy. Stuff like that.

This is only an outline of an idea, not a fully developed one, mind you. Note that the unnatural properties for this hypothetical Abomination race are also appropriate for a Demonic race.

Fucking genius.

[Plague Bringer]

3rd race? boo.

I really don't like the idea.

For one; why do we need another race? It'd be cool, right? What does it add to the gameplay other then balance issues?

For two; if we do add the third race, how the hell do you suggest we balance it? Rock paper scizzors style? No.

For three; mappers will get royally pissed if this happens; all the maps will have to be redisigned to fit this third race.

For four; the learning curve is already hard enough for newbies, do you really want to scare them away with a third race to master?

This is great stuff for a mod; but nothing like this will ever see the base version of Tremulous. Tremulous was designed with two teams; aliens and humans; in mind and a third race would just, well, not be Tremulous.

[KobraKaine]

Make it a spinoff of the original game... you know, sister games or something.  That way if you wanna just stick to tried-and-true strategy/gameplay, you can play the normal way, or if you want to try something a little crazier with totally different strategies, you can play the three-way version.

It's not like it has to be one or the other... why not have both?

[Odin]

Because almost no FPS games have three teams.

[KobraKaine]

Because almost no FPS games have three teams.

...That's the point.  It'll be fucking sweet.

[Plague Bringer]

I don't think so.

Halo does it; but in multiplayer; it's two teams.

Two is balance; anything else turns it into a the rock-paper-scizzors style combat of Fire Emblem; or, of rock-paper-scizzors  :eek: .

[KobraKaine]

I don't think so.

Halo does it; but in multiplayer; it's two teams.

Two is balance; anything else turns it into a the rock-paper-scizzors style combat of Fire Emblem; or, of rock-paper-scizzors  :eek: .

So? You hate one of the other players and he's a paper, you go on the scissors team and own his ass.  Or to really insult the bastard you could go rock and still own him.  

I don't see the problem here at all.

[Sevis]

I would like to see a mage-style third race. Not psycic, but more dependent on activating the correct upgrades at the correct times. So to fight at full efficiency, you must be able to predict what you are going to fight against and in what numbers, making surprise attacks on this race devastating.

[Yin Starrunner]

Man, who ever said that we would have all three races on the same map?  I like the idea of having only 2 teams face each other at the same time, either determined by the mapmaker or randomized.

3 teams at once would be WAY too crowded.

[f0rqu3]

there is already 3 teams
aliens, humans and spectators

[Plague Bringer]

Man, who ever said that we would have all three races on the same map?  I like the idea of having only 2 teams face each other at the same time, either determined by the mapmaker or randomized.

3 teams at once would be WAY too crowded.

What's the point of a 3rd team then?

[_Equilibrium_]

this might have ben said before, but there is a major problem with havingthis on trem. if one team's spawns are wiped out, 1/3 of the players will be sitting around doing shit until the game finishes.

i suppose you could have them join the remaining teams, bu ti really hate joining when the teams are s3. trying to dretch B-suits sucks.

[CreatureofHell]

there is already 3 teams aliens, humans and spectators

      ROFl!

Back to subject. 3 teams would be confusing but only some servers would do it. I f you wanted to play three teams go to a 3 teams server.
         
                   

[vov35]

the biggest problem is mapping, notice now everything on the existing maps has 90 degree turns, are we gonna have to improvise 120degree ones somehow? the map system is not designed for thsi although it would be fun...

[Fluxflashor]

I want Warp Blades .

If I canave my Archon that does 750 damage that you get from killing the Store Vault in GroceryStoreWarz than you can have your warblades

Thinks this also would be a totally leet idea.

Y-shaped ATCS...

[quote="vov35]the biggest problem is mapping, notice now everything on the existing maps has 90 degree turns, are we gonna have to improvise 120degree ones somehow? the map system is not designed for thsi although it would be fun...[/quote]

Easy actually if you know something decent about mapping. Make one side of the map, than clone it 3 times, and rotate the clones so they form a triangle, than make a triangle enter. If my graphics card would support GTK right now, I would whip up a non detailed version and make a pk3 to show you what I mean

[kevlarman]

Easy actually if you know something decent about mapping. Make one side of the map, than clone it 3 times, and rotate the clones so they form a triangle, than make a triangle enter. If my graphics card would support GTK right now, I would whip up a non detailed version and make a pk3 to show you what I mean

there's a very good reason most corridors are lined up with the map axes, they have to be much wider to let people through if they weren't aligned (up to sqrt(2) times wider)

[Taiyo.uk]

Yes. Use /set cg_drawbbox 1 to see why - the bounding boxes are only translated and not rotated. Only the drawmodels are rotated.

[E-Mxp]

there is already 3 teams
aliens, humans and spectators

Random Idea:
The spectators should look like floating orbs and give a boost to the team they favor. Like: blue orbs for humans and red orbs for aliens.
And the boost could give the player they try to follow a (better) healing aura or so....

maybe the orbs should go to a team when they are toughed by a member of a team or so....

Your thoughts?  

[Plague Bringer]

Spectators do not interfere with the game. Common sense.

However, I would like to see models for spectators, no collision with other players of buildables, and they dissapear when spectating people, but it would be cool.

Oh, and Mxp, how would you know what spectator is on what "team" to color them.

What's with the wave of half assed ideas and idiots around here?

[_Equilibrium_]

i do not want to see spectators floating around. that could be a major distraction.

[doomagent13]

Specs should remain invisible.  

As for 3 way games--SCREW THEM!!  The way I see it, there could be as many teams as the server op wants, the server randomly picks 2 and replaces the human and alien buildables with the apropriate ones from the 2 chosen teams.  It would be simpler than trying to make balanced 3 way maps.  So one game A vs. A, the next A vs. H, the next H vs. Machines, the next A vs. Psychics, and so on.

[Plague Bringer]

You do realise that you'd still have to balance every team since you can end up with any combonation.