WTF

[Epsilon]

I was in this server a little earlier and joined the human team, and everyone was fucking turtling! I only had one other guy follow me for a while until we got jumped by Dretches, but other than that, I was the only one willing to go on patrol and frag some aliens while everyone else stayed in their base. I'd much rather feed the aliens and say I tried to win than stay in my base and say I tried not to lose.

</rant>

[SLAVE|Mietz]

go away

[PIE]

I'm sort of with you on that.. cept the feeding thing.. i'd rather run perimiter and quick retreat if they won't come with me..
They call it camping.. turtling is more of a CTF phrase..... its actually sort of like both of them combined though... and people complain about this night and day.. its what noobish human teams do.. and there are a lot of noobish human teams because thats where noobs usually go first because they are familiar with playing human.

[Rippy]

Yes, the FPS term is "camping", "turtling" is an RTS term for someone who spams defensive structures.

I notice this too, I'm trying to figure out WHY. Is it because humans usually lose to an alien 1on1? That's definitely the case for me. As a dretch, I'm confident that I can kill a lone human, unless maybe he's at the other end of a narrow hallway and has lots of time to spray. But as a human, unless you spot an alien from far off (doesn't happen often in the tight indoor environments), it's at your ankles before you can get some shots out at it.

My human n00bishness aside, I think I know the problem. Aliens can go anywhere because if they're low on hp, they just head to a dark corner and wait 20 seconds and they're healed. Humans, however, only have one "regenerator". Which leaves them tied to their medipad all the more.

I think a reasonable solution would be to have a "pack" item called the medipack, that enables humans to automatically regenerate health the same way aliens do, but at around 4 hp per second. To make humans less alien-like, the pack would need to make noise when active, to force the human to back off much farther to find a safe place. Making it a pack upgrade ensures that it can't be used by jettards or battlesuiters, keeping things balances all the more. If you ask me, this'd be a better alternative to the "medic" class being considered, although that has its bonuses too.

[Checkpoint]

That's already been implemented, except a little tweaked and with no noise. xD

[Dustin]

Medkit. It doesn't need to be a "you-wear-this-and-regenerate-at-the-cost-of-a-batterypack-or-jetpack" item.
It does make noise though, just not constant, only on initial use.

[kevlarman]

the reason humans often camp is as follows:
you are a random n00b who just d/l'ed the game, you join a server and decide to join the human team.
you try to attack the aliens, and get pwned repeatedly by someone who actually knows how to use a dretch.
next game you think that humans suck and aliens pwn, so you join the alien team, when you try to kill the humans you walk in a straight line towards them, and on the rare occation you make it close enough to bite them, you bite their feet and do no damage while they finish you off.
the next game you think aliens suck and sit on the turrets to make sure the mean dretches can't get you, and when you get killed by a goon, you come to the forums to whine about aliens.

[Seafoideach]

Medkit. It doesn't need to be a "you-wear-this-and-regenerate-at-the-cost-of-a-batterypack-or-jetpack" item.
It does make noise though, just not constant, only on initial use.

I think what Rippy meant was something that you can use more than the once before you have to retreat to a medisation. Something more like what tyrants have, perhaps?

[Squall503]

some games you have to camp. its a fact of life, think about it, if you run out of your base and there are 2 goons waiting for you every time and you cant get enough points for even a shotty, well then what are you susposed to do? feed? no i dont think so, you have to wait but i will say this i camp, everyone camps, but only for some time because i just need some creds. when i get them if the goon or goons are too good i will need to shoot retreat, and repeat until i can kill one but sometimes (most of the time) i will run out and kill their base best as i can. also im sick of people saying and i quote "FUCKING CAMPERS" it gets annoying, and think about it, its not gonna get some guy to theink "hey i dont want them to say this so the goons can kill me im gonna go out there and prove them wrong". no no one will do that we will sit there until the alieans get fed up and charge. then get s2 and win or lose. ither way there will always be campers on a team, so you will just have to wait it out.

[chompers]

Haven't really thought about medic packs until now, probably someone has already suggested something similar or better, but - an easy way to do medic 'class' would be a backpack that holds medikits. It's range based and automatically (just like tyrants) - if another human comes close by, and they've used their medikit, they get a new one out of the medic pack. You couldn't make the pack hold infinite kits though, maybe hold 5 or 10. Of course, this means by yourself, you would have lots of medikits.

You could even make it so selling a half empty pack only gives back half the credits, but you get credits from your team whenever they use your medikits.

Only problem I can see with this is armour + helmet + medi + painsaw might be a bit overpowered..

edit: heh, a solution to that: nerf the painsaw, but make painsaw + battery pack more powerful than regular painsaw.

[ZEL]

thankyou squall.

Camping is a fundamental part of tremulous, being one important aspect of any strategic plan.  As humans unless you're all pretty good and you all rush, you're probably going to have to camp through much of S1.  I can take out a goon one on one without a helmet maybe 2/3s of the time, but 2 goons at once?  Uh, that would be a no.  I've had quite a bit of practice as well, and killing a goon after an extended and impressive duel kinda loses its fun when you get headchomped from behind right afterwards.

The fact is thats its kinda noobish to scorn camping as a human player.  Any experienced human player (who beats aliens from time to time) can tell you that if you never camp you will lose most of your games.  Even if you can dominate as a human, chances are good you cant carry your team till S2, and with noobs going out hunting like you you'll probably be facing tyrants before you get a helmet.

[PIE]

While i'm alien I prey some human comes out of the base..
I actually camp their doors waiting for someone to come out..
As alien is important to work as a team to try to lure the humans out of their base. Having a bigger alien go in and use up almost all of its health and retreat past waiting friends is a great way to get chaser or two.
Just like humans have to move out of their base in teams, aliens have to lure them out in teams.

[David]

I actually camp their doors waiting for someone to come out..

Thats the only reasion i ever camp. becouse some alien is camping the door to my base, and i dont want to feed.

[BenJAMMIN]

it is true that your first instinct as a noob is to camp as a human, because its a tough game to learn at first, it throws the conventions of most other FPS games to the side. My first instinct was to run out and attack, and i got chomped to hell. Then as an alien you try to rush and chomp and you get raped. It was frusturating till i discovered these forums and really delved into all the information, and now it all makes sense and ive turned into a pretty good fighting machine with either race. The problem is that a lot of noobs don't get the information because they don't know where it is. Eventually they will work their way out of it (or get so frusturated they quit). Everyone goes through growing pains :wink:

You cant really blame them, we were all noobs once