Tyrants more dangerous to there team.

[Ceaser342]

I was just playing a huge game on the ACTS map.  I was aliens and we were defending our base from the humans.  (Yes the humans acctually attack :O)  However alot of ppl started evolveing to tyrants.  THere were so may that you could barely move.  The poor ppl stuck on dretch are either trampled or yelled at for blocking (theres Irony in that).  So my thoughts are that tyrants can be useful but only for attacking.  In a game like this they stayed at the base and tried to defend it, but this just gave the humans a shooting fish in a barrel scneario and brought the whole game crashig around our ears.  I think that tyrants a re a offensive aggressive unit.  Leave the defense to dretchs, basilisk, and maruaders.  If you have alot of tyrants you can most likely overwhelm or  at least hurt the human base!  Plus I think tyrant players are to scared.  They take a couple hits and go running!  This was a perfect case of aliens camping!  there were only like 5 includeing me going out and tryingf to kill humans and keep them from blocking us in with turrets.  The build points were like 255 on this server.  Do you agree that tyrants suck at def on a map like this?

[vcxzet]

adv. marauder is the best evolution
multi-target
base rape
easy to escape

[PIE]

Everyone has their preference.. but with every single human shooting at the door evolving to a tyrant in the base is sort of a useless idea and will waste your points...
Best thing to do is try to run out with a dretch, find a quite corner, evolve, and then come at them from behind.. for added effect, get your team to rush when you do, and usuall you can kill or disband an attack party that way... but yeah.. get out of the base!

[Bender]

1. Your whole team shouldn't have been tyrants, some should always be goons... just pointint that out.

2. If dretches are in the way, either one of two things. One, they should be walking on walls and roofs, because they should know not to block a tyrant a adv goon, the leaders of the team. Two, if they start complaining that they keep getting trampled, you are getting what you have coming... dretches and basalisks should hug walls, its not the tyrants fault. If a dretch is in my way, and I'm getting pulse rifled trying to turn a corner, and there is something smaller than a marauder in my way, im going to swipe.

[Ceaser342]

Yes but also 10 ppl shouldn't evovle tyrants and goons in the middle of there base!  Plus the bases in ATCS can get cramped.  So the drecths and stuff get killed as soon as they try to move.  Plus the tyrants also think the only way to move is thhrough trampling  don't trample in your own base.

[Rippy]

Yes but also 10 ppl shouldn't evovle tyrants and goons in the middle of there base!  Plus the bases in ATCS can get cramped.  So the drecths and stuff get killed as soon as they try to move.  Plus the tyrants also think the only way to move is thhrough trampling  don't trample in your own base.

So basically, you're complaining here about random players' evo choices? o_O

Agreed, Tyrants should be able to push all other aliens (exept maybe goons) out of their way.. and maybe the trample attack shouldn't do damage to allies? The trample dramatically improves your speed, which is why people use it even when teammates are in the way, so you'd think it'd make sense for it to do no damage to teammates.

I just find that the biggest thing to be balanced in the game is how aliens win their games. In my experience, aliens win in two situations about 80% of the time:

1. They rush from the beginning and completely rape the human team before s2
2. They get kills until s3, then proceed to rape the human base

I guess what I'm saying is, aliens usually only win at the extremes: the early game and the late game. All the more reason why adv goons should be available in s2, and tyrants should be nerfed a little, hp-wise.

[Squall503]

i think most pof these people are right if a tyrant is running from a battle suit with a pulse or a luci, get the fuck out of the way or your a dead dretch. i usually try to get on a wall or roof out of curtsey. but there should not have been too many tyrants some should have been adv goons, if not all they good for killing long distance (if your good) and they powerful so i think anything less then a marauder even that should move for a tyrant or a goon, if theydont wanna die as well. also just gotta say this, dont go just choping anytime as something because too many times have i run around a corner as a goon, and just took out like 4-5 turrets and some duche will just run around swiping at people. even if it isnt ff is not on

DONT FUCKING GO AROUND SWIPING YOUR TEAM AT RANDOM.

[Dustin]

I totally agree (Don't go around swiping teammates at random)
This is partially off-topic (different race), but.. kinda the same
DON'T GO BLASTING TEAMMATES IN THE FACE WITH YOUR LUCIFER CANNON AT RANDOM!
I was watching someone (spectator follow mode) who, most of the time, played just fine.. until the lucifer cannons came out. He'd kill aliens, sure, and then he'd go around and randomly blast teammates in the face with it, fully charged, at random. FF was On. The name of the player slips my mind at the moment, but honestly.

[ZEL]

the fact is that aliens have a big advantage at S1 because humans dont have helmets yet.  Chompfest/dretch-party/marauder...meyhem? haha

humans have a huge advantage at S2 because a single skilled human with a pulse rifle and armor+helmet is able to dominate a map against S1 or S2 aliens.

At first glance S3 seems to swing the game in aliens favor again, but not as much as one would think.  The change is so dramatic because S2 aliens dont have much over S1 aliens (except with building def).  Tyrants are not overpowered, 2 humans with lucis or pulse rifles can kill a tyrant easily in an open space.  In addition tyrants take a lot of evo points, so killing one sets an alien player back a lot.  Kill them twice in a row and you're facing dretches again.  Adv goons are pretty much as vulnerable as regular goons to pulse rifles.

[Henners]

This is a problem with the server rather than the class/game system.

one last time


TREMULOUS IS NOT DESIGNED FOR A 50 PLAYER SERVER. THE MAPS ARNT BIG ENOUGH

10 tyrants!?!?! having 10 people on your team is pushing it!

[Survivor]

Yes, trem was designed for what, 16 to 20 player games? And atcs is just about the smallest map you can get. What did you expect.

[Henners]

I guess what I'm saying is, aliens usually only win at the extremes: the early game and the late game. All the more reason why adv goons should be available in s2, and tyrants should be nerfed a little, hp-wise.

Obviously you have never played with a decent group of adv marauders. Can level a base in seconds if done right.

And leave the poor adv goon alone. If you reduce his health his usefulness drops rapidly.  Its hard enough to hit and run a heavily defended base as it is, with the goon not having THAT much health (such a big target its health is "effectively" much less.

Stop trying to fix a percieved (incorrectly mind) problem by fooking around something else thats fine.

[tuple]

Dretches on the floor in s3 are at their own peril!  Lets face it, dretches can be critical in the right situation in s3, but costing no evol points they are essentially worthless, and have only lost the time it takes to get from where they spawn to where they died.

What bothers me more is when tyrants take the time out of base destruction to apologizing for TKing ME when I was stupid enough to run around on the floor as a dretch

I think a lot of the problem is that people are used to thinking of walking on the floor as the normal thing to do, which isn't the case with a dretch.  Telling noobs to press c to wallwalk actually can help some (and it reminds me to!)

[Mikiupdown2]

I was watching someone (spectator follow mode) who, most of the time, played just fine.. until the lucifer cannons came out. He'd kill aliens, sure, and then he'd go around and randomly blast teammates in the face with it, fully charged, at random. FF was On. The name of the player slips my mind at the moment, but honestly.

I seen a dude like that yesterday.

I was stood on top of a repeater and was firing at the aliens and some dude was on a higher ledge behind me (not directly behind me. to the right a bit) with a jetpack and luci cannon.

At first I was like "ok, mabey he did that by mistake" but after a while it gets annoying. He would shoot my head, I would lose 20 health and turn around, and he'd just be fireing all innocent like he hadnt done anything.

What the hell is up with that?!

And as soon as I fire a single pulse rifle bullet at him, he calls a votekick (though it was un-sucessful, mind).

[Ceaser342]

The point is Tyrants are not a good def unit.  They block the hallways and entrances so dretch players can't get out and get wins.  Plus the trampling in your own base is the most retarded thig you can do. Wethers its dretch or basilisk tryig to get out of the way or your own acid tubes its just not good to do.  Plus its so tight that 3 humans with a battle suit and lucfiers can just camp in the hall and spam you whole base and no one can move enough to get at them.

[Rippy]

Obviously you have never played with a decent group of adv marauders. Can level a base in seconds if done right.

aliens usually only win at the extremes

And leave the poor adv goon alone. If you reduce his health his usefulness drops rapidly.  Its hard enough to hit and run a heavily defended base as it is, with the goon not having THAT much health (such a big target its health is "effectively" much less.

All the more reason why adv goons should be available in s2, and tyrants should be nerfed a little, hp-wise.

Where did I say anything about nerfing goons?

Stop trying to fix a percieved (incorrectly mind) problem by fooking around something else thats fine.

Perceive: To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.


You win the misinterpretation award. :roll:

[David]

i played this one game where 3 people went tyrant, and i had to decon half the defences to let them out. i had just fixed it all back up, when thay did it again.
dretches are quicker, so evolve on there door-step. give them no warning.
whenever i see waring of a tyrant i run to defned as fast as i can.

[vcxzet]

3 tyrants at base in map ATCS :: a nono

[Henners]

Obviously you have never played with a decent group of adv marauders. Can level a base in seconds if done right.

aliens usually only win at the extremes

And leave the poor adv goon alone. If you reduce his health his usefulness drops rapidly.  Its hard enough to hit and run a heavily defended base as it is, with the goon not having THAT much health (such a big target its health is "effectively" much less.

All the more reason why adv goons should be available in s2, and tyrants should be nerfed a little, hp-wise.

Where did I say anything about nerfing goons?

Stop trying to fix a percieved (incorrectly mind) problem by fooking around something else thats fine.

Perceive: To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.


You win the misinterpretation award. :roll:

No, you are making the fatal mistake of trying to balance the game for players that dont know what they are doing. We've had this discussion in the IRC channel multiple times. The only true balance the game can have as balance at the highest level of play. Anything else is rubbish as it would unbalance that state of play. You have percieved a problem that isnt there, and wish to fix it by moving classes around. Sorry about my goon comment, that was just that I misread your post and took it to be one of the standard idiotic suggestions of s2 adv goons with reduced health. Of course reducing tyrant health is even more stupid.

Tyrants are not the unkillable machines people think them to be. 400 health is not a huge amount if 2 or 3 players gang together to take one down. The point is players dont play as they "should" and so tyrants have built up this fearsome reputation that sends lesser players running back to their base as soon as they hear the roar, where they remain for the final 10 minutes of the map as aliens slowly wear them down.

The fault lies with the players, not the balance.

[Rippy]

You just said it yourself: 400 hp isn't much if 2 or 3 people gang up on it.

That's the thing: even a battlesuit has trouble competing with a Tyrant. His Luci shots, while doing about the same amount to the Tyrant as a slash does to him, take seconds to charge while the Tyrant slashes away. Then, if you get a good shot in, the Tyrant charges away and your Luci shots can't keep up.

It SHOULDN'T take 2 or 3 guys to take down a Tyrant, not when they've got the best equipment. Now, I'm not saying the luci or bsuit is weak, and I'm not saying the Tyrant is super-strong either. I'm just saying that it's much easier to kill a bsuit+luci as a Tyrant then the human can kill it.

And no, it's not all balanced for the pros. That's why Dretches bite automatically, so that newer players stand a chance. It's little things that make it fun for newbies so that they WANT to learn, and balanced for all skill levels.

Instead of an hp nerf, maybe Tyrants could just have a half-second (or slightly shorter) windup for their slash? They'd still have the attack rate they do now, they'd just have to compensate for a small offset on their attack, which would inject a little skill into the slashing. They could even hold the trigger down to keep a swipe charged. Would that be a more acceptable way to balance them? I just think there's something wrong when it's much easier for Tyrants to kill bsuits than bsuits to kill Tyrants.

Also, looking back, that goon idea is pretty weak... I take it back, s3 goons are fine how they are. The only unit balance issue I can see is the ease of Tyrant slashing

[PHREAK]

Once again, this is a teamgame. Try to repeat that in your head when you play hummies. In order to kill a tyrant at least 2 people are required (I've killed plenty of tyrants by myself but it wasn't due to my skill but rather the lack of theirs). Top equipped hummies can go out in groups while aliens can't hence the reaseon why Aliens (should) attack in waves and hummies in groups.

This is the nature of the game. If it wasn't so, then a group of hummies would be able to take out an equal number of adv goons and tyrants, which would be devistating.

While many of you have played many games, it seems to me that very few of those games were played with good players. Play with people who REALLY know what they are doing and you just might enjoy trem as it is.
Another important thing is to play both sides as equally as possible. Don't be hummie for life. Realize how hard it is to play as a tyrant or manuver as a goon, then tell me that aliens are overpowered.
Same goes for cry-baby's-aliens-for-life players bitching about how hummies are always overpowered.

Fact is, good player are overpowered. Not the sides they play on.

[Henners]

I just think there's something wrong when it's much easier for Tyrants to kill bsuits than bsuits to kill Tyrants.

Your arguement just fell apart around you.

A battlesuit costs 400 credits. A tyrant costs 5 evo points. Anything else aside they are NOT equal. Aside from that your suggestions are absurd, and seem to come from a player that doesnt play alien very much, and so doesnt appreciate the difficulty in killing battlesuits, even as a tyrant. 3 Slashes is a lot if the battlesuit is wielding a decent weapon, or isnt an idiot thats wandered off by himself. Half a second delay on tyrant slash?!?! are you insane?

Anyway I give up wasting my time debating with you, its pointless if these are the sort of suggestions you're resorting to now.

[Ceaser342]

Also the lucfier is a base killer.  Like the pulse rifle.  Trying to use it against a good tyrant player is most likely gonna get you killed.  THe only reason ppl use it like that is when hummies get to stage 3 evrey buys a lucifer and just starts spamming the whole map.

Also its you own fualt standing in front of a tyrant.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

I just think there's something wrong when it's much easier for Tyrants to kill bsuits than bsuits to kill Tyrants.

Your arguement just fell apart around you.

A battlesuit costs 400 credits. A tyrant costs 5 evo points. Anything else aside they are NOT equal. Aside from that your suggestions are absurd, and seem to come from a player that doesnt play alien very much, and so doesnt appreciate the difficulty in killing battlesuits, even as a tyrant. 3 Slashes is a lot if the battlesuit is wielding a decent weapon, or isnt an idiot thats wandered off by himself. Half a second delay on tyrant slash?!?! are you insane?

Anyway I give up wasting my time debating with you, its pointless if these are the sort of suggestions you're resorting to now.

oh so true words! to get a bsuite-chain combo down is nearly impossible if the bsiut is strafing much, because the turn-speed of the tyrant is slower (you can use a half charged stomp, to make it higher but you need SKILL)

[Howitzer]

Some servers implemented a luci nerf..
Luci cannon takes longer to recharge (no more small-charge spamming) and a big charge takes even longer.
I like it this way, i've only seen good players use it correctly then (tyrant attack, 2 people attack front, good player sneaks behind and has 1 chance for a good shot)

Tyrants aren't THAT hard, i killed several yesterday with a chaingun/pulse/lasgun in this fashion:
-Tyrant attack turrets
-Some humans shoot him from behind the turrets
-I sneak around the Tyrant and start shooting him in the back
-Tyrant turns to flee or kill me
-I strafe around him and look for cover behind something
-Tyrant starts fleeing
-I chase and kill Tyrant.

That's it, 7 steps to kill a defence-attacking tyrant with 2 or 3 humans.

[Glunnator]

Fact is, good players are overpowered. Not the sides they play on.

Now there he has a good point. READ THAT SENTENCE GUYS!
Play tremulous and think about that sentence. I have killed tyrants without getting hit a single time ON MY OWN. AND i have been slaughtered by a single tyrant when going in a group.

IT'S A N00BS VS OVERPOWERED PROS ARGUMENT WERE HAVING NOT A HUMANS VS OVERPOWERED ALIENS OR VICE VERSA!

And also i have, as tyrant, mauled an entire baseful of hummies on my own, or have been sivved by pulses from a single human.

IT'S YOUR SKILL, NOT WICH SIDE YOU ARE ON!

And, ofcourse, as already stated, it's also a team game! Good teamwork is the key. A team of teamworking n00bs can overpower a team of lamearseantisocial pros!

THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE!
Phreak might have a weird name, but he seems to be one of the wisest of the lot of you!
LISTEN TO HIM

Fact is, good players are overpowered. Not the sides they play on.

sigh. forgive me for being an ass if i have been. :roll:

[PHREAK]

It's not the name that's weird, Glunnator

[Stof]

i played this one game where 3 people went tyrant, and i had to decon half the defences to let them out. i had just fixed it all back up, when thay did it again.

I would love to infiltrate that base, attack the OM a little, sit down with some popcorn and watch all the tyrants rushing to defend their base blocked by the base defenses you've set up. I hope it was on a server with building FF off

[beerbitch]

All I can say is when I'm a Tyrant, I love getting into a small room full of Humans with Battlesuits/Lucy and FF turned on.

_bb