Author Topic: Rapid Lucy  (Read 8810 times)

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« on: August 02, 2006, 08:50:26 am »
I have a question that I'd like to have answered by devs.
After that feel free to lock it and let it sink to the bottom of the forum.

Is rapid lucy a bug or intended and is it going to be addressed in the next version?

That's all.

I've had numerous arguments about this topic with various people and I really want to know if it was intended as it is in the current state or not.

Thanks.
Yelling at team mates since 2006!

Howitzer

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 11:55:07 am »
I don't think it's a bug..
However, some servers treated it as a bug though, they disabled the rapid fire and removed the sounds so that it becomes quite hard to use it..

Lava Croft

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 12:02:00 pm »
What the fuck is rapid fire Lucy? Do you mean the alt-fire or something? If so, then it's not a bug and cetainly not something to change. We tried nerfing the Lucy on SATGNU, it just didn't work out.

[db@]Megabite

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 12:29:28 pm »
There seems to be a script around timing the lucy primary attack to work in fast intervalls automatically.
As it is normal game scripting it is not really a cheat. But it should be fixed, secondary fire is to be used that way.

Danny
url=http://www.tremulous.info][/url]


SLAVE|Mietz

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 12:31:45 pm »
Quote from: "[db@
Megabite"]There seems to be a script around timing the lucy primary attack to work in fast intervalls automatically.
As it is normal game scripting it is not really a cheat. But it should be fixed, secondary fire is to be used that way.

Danny


its easy to use, i like the rapid fire lucy.

you can do it without scripting, its rather easy and works like the goon-speedhack but its more useless.

Teiman

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 12:55:33 pm »
No to be evil or something. But a good way to enhance Tremulous console scripting can be to pass a parameter to "wait". The n# of frames to skip.

wait == wait 1
wait 10 == wait;wait;wait;wait .. wait

Maybe you can even let use seconds (and internally calc how much frames mean:)
wait 3s
but maybe this will collide with the +left +right +attack stuff so theres no use :/

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 06:49:25 pm »
The issue is not the power of the lucy but rather the refire rate of the primary fire.
The charge time is not proportional to the charge power so while a full charge is 100%, half that charge is about 80% thus allowing dangerous lucy spamming.
Some servers I play on do not allow rapid lucy. The lucy is not nerfed or scripted but it's expected of the players to follow these rules. This leads to a lot more balanced play and requires a tad more teamplay thus preventing rambo base raids with the lucy. (painsaw still works great for those ;) )

My idea for the lucy would be to only allow full charge shots with the primary, which do not explode if they are overcharged but could be charged up and held until the key is released. This wouldn't nerf the lucy since it is supposed to kill anything smaller then a tyrant in one or two shots, but it would prevent the massive spammage.

As it is right now, it simply seems like the ultimate non-skilled moron weapon.
Maybe I'm way off on this assumption and I apologize if I insulted anyone.
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ZEL

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 07:17:05 pm »
No, i feel it still takes some skill to wield a Luci effectively without killing yourself.  Not much  :P ,but some.  That being said as a skilled human player it can be frustrating to use the luci in general because of its limitations.  It really is just a defensive weapon except with regards to base killing.  Unless you're being attacked by an alien chances are pretty slim you're gonna kill anything.

So go around the luci crazy noobs and its not really an issue.  Let them run low on ammo, use hit and run tactics, and basically let them kill themselves.  But if you nerf the luci you need to nerf the tyrant as well.

being brutally mauled time and again by a single noobish tyrant attacking your poorly defended base is just as frustrating as running smack into a luci crazy noob.

(i'd prefer if no nerfing was done)  :roll:

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 08:30:13 pm »
I never said to nerf the lucy. The kill power of the lucy is jusftified since it's intended to be the hummies dangerous weapon. The only issue I have on some servers is the rapidfire part of it.
Same goes for rapid goon pounce. Kills the fun of the game, regardles what side you're on.

Also, this wouldn't change anything for the skilled lucy carriers since they don't rapid spam.
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Harry Joe

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 08:51:30 pm »
If the fast spam shots didn't do ~100-150 dmg it really wouldn't be an issue. As it is though even an unskilled player can completely destroy any alien class except a decent tyrant. Give the spammer a bit of backup (you know, since humans are supposed to use teamwork) and fast spamming lucy makes an attacking human force practically invincible and guaranteed to not only make their money back, but to make the aliens lose a ton of evo points as well.

Add that to it's defense capability, constant spamming on the entrances and hallways into the human base and it gets pretty retarded. Even a tyrant will not be able to enter a human base being lucy spammed without getting cut down in a few short seconds.

I think the biggest problem though is the way humans choose to play most of the time. Heavy camping of their base with some lone rambo's going out now and then. This makes them think things are unbalanced because that tyrant always rapes them, even though if they had 1-2 other people backing them up it would most likely be the opposite result.


To cut short any more words, a semi decent, agressive human team can rape the shit out of any aliens even without fast luci, add that into the mix and it makes them pretty much invincible.


Luckily for aliens though, a competent human team is rare, but as mentioned here before, things should not be balanced for the lowest common denominator and weapons shouldn't be designed to compensate for a complete lack of human skill and aim.

Henners

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2006, 11:06:17 pm »
Good god why is everyone in this thread being so stupid. Rapid fire lucy = run out of ammo in seconds. Its not unstoppable in any way shape or form.

Now not being funny, but I've yet to see one other player using the lucy REALLY effectively. It can utterly dominate aliens if used properly, but frankly that isnt through spamming..... However, even then you are limited by your ammo. Lucy has a very small amount of ammo, even with a battery pack, and that is the balancing factor.
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Howitzer

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 12:41:12 am »
Not if they're sitting on top of a repeater.
(Like i saw twice today on Arachnid2 -_- )

vcxzet

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 12:46:37 am »
Quote from: "Howitzer"
Not if they're sitting on top of a repeater.
(Like i saw twice today on Arachnid2 -_- )

lol luci turrets!

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 12:57:10 am »
I'm still waiting for a dev to answer my initial post :(

Ah well, there's to hoping.
Yelling at team mates since 2006!

vcxzet

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2006, 12:59:04 am »
Quote from: "PHREAK"
I'm still waiting for a dev to answer my initial post :(

Ah well, there's to hoping.

use irc. it is faster

Henners

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2006, 10:51:42 am »
Quote from: "Howitzer"
Not if they're sitting on top of a repeater.
(Like i saw twice today on Arachnid2 -_- )


In which case they arnt trashing your base either, so wheres the threat.....
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Howitzer

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2006, 01:22:54 pm »
The 2 pulse rifles coming down at base over the pipes because every alien is focused on miraculously passing the lucispam.
I'm going to cry :(

tuple

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2006, 01:28:31 pm »
I jump into groups surrounding the lucy spammers as adv mara, the spammer takes a bunch out for me :) (FF only)

And it breaks up the spam, so aliens escape base and advance on the humans too.

Howitzer

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2006, 03:17:27 pm »
Hmm, good idea.
I'll use that one :D
What i also love is luring newbies to you so that they run into the lucy spam 8)

tjw

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2006, 05:14:03 pm »
https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2758

This is fixed on the server side in SVN and the updated game.qvm at http://tjw.org/tremulous/

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2006, 08:45:08 pm »
Thanks TJW.

However, my question wasn't regarding the console trick but rather the charge time VS charge amount of the primary.

I'm glad that the goon punce console trick is gone though.
Yelling at team mates since 2006!

tjw

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2006, 10:17:45 pm »
Quote from: "PHREAK"
Thanks TJW.

However, my question wasn't regarding the console trick but rather the charge time VS charge amount of the primary.

I'm glad that the goon punce console trick is gone though.


The same fix corrects this (if I'm understanding you).

WolfWings ShadowFlight

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2006, 08:33:08 am »
Quote from: "Howitzer"
Not if they're sitting on top of a repeater.
(Like i saw twice today on Arachnid2 -_- )


I still prefer 'ripple fired' Lucifer shots.

High-charge primary, release and 'dash' forward while holding alt-fire. I've managed to do it without even dropping off a repeater once or twice, though it's hard.

The secondary shot will overtake the primary shot on medium or longer hallways, impact, aliens often think that was the splash-damage shot, turn the corner just in time for BLAM, face-full of charged Lucifer shot. I've gotten way too many 'full force' kills from that on everything from Dretches on up. And I'm sorry, but I find it a point of pride to pull off a direct-hit kill on a Dretch with a Lucifer. 8) Those take some actual skill to con the Dretch into falling for it.
img]http://wolfwings.us/sigs/WolfWings.jpg[/img]

PHREAK

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2006, 09:39:21 am »
Quote from: "tjw"
Quote from: "PHREAK"
Thanks TJW.

However, my question wasn't regarding the console trick but rather the charge time VS charge amount of the primary.

I'm glad that the goon punce console trick is gone though.


The same fix corrects this (if I'm understanding you).


You are understanding me ;)

Thanks for the answer.
Yelling at team mates since 2006!

rasz_pl

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2006, 09:42:25 am »
Quote from: "WolfWings ShadowFlight"
Quote from: "Howitzer"
Not if they're sitting on top of a repeater.
(Like i saw twice today on Arachnid2 -_- )


I still prefer 'ripple fired' Lucifer shots.

High-charge primary, release and 'dash' forward while holding alt-fire. I've managed to do it without even dropping off a repeater once or twice, though it's hard.

The secondary shot will overtake the primary shot on medium or longer hallways, impact, aliens often think that was the splash-damage shot, turn the corner just in time for BLAM, face-full of charged Lucifer shot. I've gotten way too many 'full force' kills from that on everything from Dretches on up. And I'm sorry, but I find it a point of pride to pull off a direct-hit kill on a Dretch with a Lucifer. 8) Those take some actual skill to con the Dretch into falling for it.



so in short you are USELESS to the whole human team .... While they try to actually WIN by attacking alien om/eggs/base you are sitting on a repeater with a lucy and playing with dretches, PRICELESS....

raf

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Rapid Lucy
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2006, 04:58:19 pm »
Quote from: "[db@
Megabite"]There seems to be a script around timing the lucy primary attack to work in fast intervalls automatically.
As it is normal game scripting it is not really a cheat. But it should be fixed, secondary fire is to be used that way.

Danny


u can do rapid luci spam without a script / using the console bug

the only thing u gotta do is : fire, wait, release, fire, wait, release...
over n over again (u just need to find the right frequency, it will look like console bug)

the only thing you need is some practice.
first i managed to do it like 3-4 times but after a few minutes of playing
around i was able to do it as long as i wanted to...

rasz_pl

  • Guest
Rapid Lucy
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 08:54:06 pm »
Quote from: "raf"
u can do rapid luci spam without a script / using the console bug

the only thing u gotta do is : fire, wait, release, fire, wait, release...
over n over again (u just need to find the right frequency, it will look like console bug)

the only thing you need is some practice.
first i managed to do it like 3-4 times but after a few minutes of playing
around i was able to do it as long as i wanted to...


so its fire, _WAIT_, release? hmm, WHERE is the problem?