A help for new and veteran Tremulous players

[SPK]

I play Trem to have some fun, but there's a lot of people who plays to be the best and win.
I'm getting rid about poeple complaining about noob team players and calling votes for kick.

I understand have a noob in the team can be bothering, but everyone here had been a noob player before, and having people criticising you its not a good way to help you to stay in tremulous (noone should care about what the others say, but that's a fact).

So I came up with a small idea to prevent this.

A special client playing mode (managed by admins) that allow new people play normally, killing and dying, but without taking part in stage increase counters.

You can kill, but you wont help your team to reach next stage. And you can be killed, but you wont help the enemies to reach next stage either.

And when admins think the player have enough experience, set it as a normal player.

Or it can be managed by the players themselves, switching between modes as they see if they're ready or not.

I didnt though about this a lot of time and maybe it will seem a stupid idea, dunno, but I think it can help a bit : /

[kharnov]

I really don't think that would ever be implemented.

However, a good idea would be to have another Wrath-type server for 1.2. I remember way back in the 1.1 days there was some Wrath Newbie Server that had some pretty terrible players on, but, well, that was the point. I think it benefits both parties: the newbies that can experiment all they want, and the more experienced players that don't want to put up with shitbuilders and battlegrangers.

[Nux]

So killing them doesn't advance the stage, but do you (non-noob) still get credits/evos for killing noobs, and vice versa? If so then there's still a very good reason to get on the noobs case. Also it opens doors to new ways of being unfair (NOOB RUSH!).

It's a competitive game so it's natural for players to aspire to be the best. It seems to me that players spouting abuse at you for doing the wrong thing is a good introduction to the world of assholes and people who are fed up with idiots.

Noobs can play whatever game they like, imaginary or not, away from those who would criticise them. They choose not to.

EDIT: (oh and also what kharnov said)

[SPK]

I really don't think that would ever be implemented.

However, a good idea would be to have another Wrath-type server for 1.2. I remember way back in the 1.1 days there was some Wrath Newbie Server that had some pretty terrible players on, but, well, that was the point. I think it benefits both parties: the newbies that can experiment all they want, and the more experienced players that don't want to put up with shitbuilders and battlegrangers.

You just gave me another idea, thanks : D

And Nux, very well said too. Didnt think about getting creds/evos even being noob, that would be a difficult problem to solve...
I will try to get some clear idea anyways.


PD Just attempting to make the community grow a bit : /  I prefer the people to stay with trem instead of running away at the first complain

[OhaiReapd]

I actually think this could be very useful.

[Kiwi]

A lot of code from the Wrath's Newbie Server on 1.1 has already been ported to GPP (largely by Teapot), however we're hesitant to begin porting large amounts of code until 1.2 is released (https://gitorious.org/wrath-newbie-tremulous/trem1-2-gpp).  I also believe that the wrath team plans on hosting a newbie server for 1.2 once it gets released.

[UniqPhoeniX]

The 'problem' here is that newbies will feed no matter what they try. So the only way to reduce the 'problem' is to make feeding less beneficial to the other team.

This is another problem that IMO can be solved with domination: just reduce creds & stage increase from kills and make domination points give creds & increase stage slowly. Newbies still won't be as useful as a good player, but at least they can't have as big of a negative effect on their team.

Another thing that can help is to reduce creds/evos from killing dretches/naked rifles.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Another thing that can help is to reduce creds/evos from killing dretches/naked rifles.

i agree wholeheartedly.  cut it in half.  1/2 evo or equivalent in human purchasing power.

this might have an adverse effect, though.  might keep the newbies as dretches/naked rifles a bit much, and they may lose interest.

what'd be REALLY excellent would be a series of offline training maps allowing you to practice vital activities without an experienced player online to hold your hand.  for most human stuff it would be shooting range stuff, with a couple of maps dedicated to learning movement.  aliens would have a lot more variety, as they have a more varied skillset required.

you wouldent need traditional bots, just something with as much AI as, say, a trapper.

[Meisseli]

The Wrath's Newbie Server could be seen as a bit of a failure too, seeing as the newbies seemed to start playing only there, kind of defeating the server's purpose in my opinion.

The best way to have newbie-friendly games is to have decent admins. It is the responsibility of the newbies to find a server where this is true.

[Celestial_Rage]

Another thing that can help is to reduce creds/evos from killing dretches/naked rifles.

i agree wholeheartedly.  cut it in half.  1/2 evo or equivalent in human purchasing power.

this might have an adverse effect, though.  might keep the newbies as dretches/naked rifles a bit much, and they may lose interest.

what'd be REALLY excellent would be a series of offline training maps allowing you to practice vital activities without an experienced player online to hold your hand.  for most human stuff it would be shooting range stuff, with a couple of maps dedicated to learning movement.  aliens would have a lot more variety, as they have a more varied skillset required.

you wouldent need traditional bots, just something with as much AI as, say, a trapper.

You can load bots with an all egg layout or all telenode layout. We have basic bots that fit the bill for training quite well.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

You can load bots with an all egg layout or all telenode layout. We have basic bots that fit the bill for training quite well.

any way to set something like that to be selectable from the main menu from an option labeled "training" or something like that?

[Celestial_Rage]

I'm sure it is. Or you can just type at the main screen, provided you have the setup correct.

Code: [Select]

/devmap atcshd;layoutload alleggs;exec addbots.cfg


[Kiwi]

The Wrath's Newbie Server could be seen as a bit of a failure too, seeing as the newbies seemed to start playing only there, kind of defeating the server's purpose in my opinion.

The best way to have newbie-friendly games is to have decent admins. It is the responsibility of the newbies to find a server where this is true.

The admins on the Wrath's Newbie Server server do as much as they can to encourage newbies to stop playing on the Newbie Server once they are ready for the full, real Tremulous world.  We do this by stripping players (restricting their class/weapon selection and reducing building damage to 10%).  This keeps them from destroying newbies, as well as lets them know that it's time for them to move on.  Once a player is striped, the admins encourage the new non-newbie to move on to bigger and better games.  Every admin on the Wrath's Newbie Server know's what they are doing, and does everything that they can to help newbie (including things such as canceling stupid kickvotes and banning killwhores).


Edit: The newbie server also implements this (in both the 1.1 code and the GPP code):

You can load bots with an all egg layout or all telenode layout. We have basic bots that fit the bill for training quite well.

[zybork]

I also believe that the wrath team plans on hosting a newbie server for 1.2 once it gets released.

“Once it gets released.” Thank you for ruining my day

A newbie training server indeed would be a good idea, and I also concur with Ninjas idea of a kind of “single player mode”, In 1.1, I played on bot servers quite a lot, and – if there were not too many of them bots – it did help me. The only bad thing is that playing against bots is nothing like playing against real human beings, for humans don't have the accuracy of bots, but bots are damn easy to hit, for their movements are perfectly predictable.

A decent training server seems the best solution.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

A special client playing mode (managed by admins) that allow new people play normally, killing and dying, but without taking part in stage increase counters.

You can kill, but you wont help your team to reach next stage. And you can be killed, but you wont help the enemies to reach next stage either.

So, basically you can enable it at the start to feed a lot as a dretch, and humans can't reach stage 2 at all?!? Then once gain evos of time then enable it, and whore your way through?!?
SOLUTION: Can only be changed once reset e.g. cl_width?!?