Author Topic: The death of the overmind should mean something more.  (Read 9629 times)

MALIMALI

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« on: August 06, 2006, 09:41:43 pm »
Over the past few days, Ive been in games where killing the overmind, even in sudden death with no eggs left, ment nothing and has allowed the alien team to continue on to victory or a draw.

When the human reactor/armory is dead, especially in sudden death, it's game over no questions asked, but the aliens can go on for another 15 minutes without an overmind and still crush the humans if they have a few units already evolved.

Since aliens don't use ammunition, how about having the overmind effect aliens hp regen? Basically, no overmind = no hp regen for alien units.

 That way, a fully functional human base won't be able to get chipped away over 10 minutes of sudden death by one tyrant that managed to survive the death of his entire base while the poor human team is desparetly trying to chase him/defend their base with their standard spawn rifles since their armory/reactor has also died.

Paradox

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2006, 09:53:14 pm »
And How about making the armory, when destroied, shut down every human weapon!

The game is balanced, stop whining. I play both teams with high success. Aliens is actually harder, in many ways.

:overmind:=:reactor:

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kevlarman

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 10:10:22 pm »
no, he's right. the armory is way too easy a target, especially during SD, but the solution is not to make aliens suffer more from the loss of the overmind, and even if they did, SD would still favor aliens
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
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vcxzet

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2006, 10:36:46 pm »
:roll: practise more

David

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2006, 11:35:30 pm »
Quote from: "kevlarman"
no, he's right. the armory is way too easy a target, especially during SD, but the solution is not to make aliens suffer more from the loss of the overmind, and even if they did, SD would still favor aliens


or put the armory so its well hidden
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Juno

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2006, 11:43:32 pm »
yes



get better or build a better base



if a goon snipes at it, shoot him and chase his bitch ass down and kill him


then see if he try's it again


repeat etc

kevlarman

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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2006, 11:56:41 pm »
Quote from: "Juno"
yes



get better or build a better base



if a goon snipes at it, shoot him and chase his bitch ass down and kill him


then see if he try's it again


repeat etc

it doesn't matter how many goons you kill during SD if one of them takes out the armory. the armory has too little health for a building that the human team can't live without.
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Stof

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2006, 12:11:51 am »
Quote from: "Paradox"
The game is balanced, stop whining. I play both teams with high success. Aliens is actually harder, in many ways.

:overmind:=:reactor:

The game is balanced you say ? What about the game in SD mode, is it balanced too ?
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Ksempac

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2006, 01:24:14 am »
yeah because SD favors the team who is already winning.

If humans have been attacking the alien base/egg hunting for 15 min before SD, they often win during SD

On the contrary if human base has been under siege by the aliens for 15 min before SD then aliens win during SD
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Evlesoa

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2006, 01:49:17 am »
Guys, wtf? Who gives a shit? The guy isnt gonna do anything about it, he isnt starting a revolt, no one cares.... just drop this.

kozak6

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2006, 02:46:21 am »
You can still get ammo for energy weapons from the reactor or repeaters.

It's not that bad.

The game is mostly fine as it is.

MALIMALI

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2006, 03:05:31 am »
Quote from: "Ksempac"
yeah because SD favors the team who is already winning.

If humans have been attacking the alien base/egg hunting for 15 min before SD, they often win during SD

On the contrary if human base has been under siege by the aliens for 15 min before SD then aliens win during SD

I have seen aliens come back and win during sudden death. SD favors aliens, no ifs ands or buts about it. Im not crying, but mearly making a suggestion. I thought that was what this forum was for.

Other people brought up the weakness of the armor and it's hp. My suggestion wouldn't change anything about a human team getting raped during sd after a 30 minute seige, it would change the unbalanced alien team thats been crushed but has had a few high evolution units survive that slowly eats a superior human base because the humans have run out of credits and have nothing left but machine guns vs tyrants.

Evlesoa

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2006, 03:22:31 am »
HELLO??? WHO CARES??? No one does >.< the game is fine, its been tested a few hundred times to make sure everything is good, trust me, developers didnt favor aliens or humans when they made this >.< calm down pplz

PHREAK

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2006, 04:56:37 am »
Lay off the cocain and coffee, Evlesoa.
Yelling at team mates since 2006!

Catalyc

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2006, 05:45:37 am »
First off, you can't go whining about one side being better than the other during SD because most better players prefer the challenge as aliens, while most humans are hopeless camping newbies with no clue on proper base building. In a good base, aliens NEVER have easy access to an armoury, and even if they do, there would always be at least one builder ready to repair, even more so during SD.

The overmind is, in fact, as important as the reactor and the armoury together for an alien team, and it is also a much easier target than a reactor, a single kamikaze saw can kill an overmind in less than 5 seconds, while the reactor always takes at least 2 or 3 kami runs from a marauder to kill, if theres no builders around repairing. A couple of humans with rifles can hold up a base with good defense, however, once the overmind is gone aliens have only the remaining big aliens left as offense AND defense for their eggs. If you did lose your armoury, 9/10 times you will be able to kill the bigger aliens when they try to attack with help from your defensive structures (that would be chasing them as they retreat, not hugging turrets hoping they do all the killing).

Theres also several servers that allow Overmind and Reactor rebuilding during SD, this does favor aliens a lot, but most servers don't have this.

Ksempac is right though, since humans mostly camp and let aliens pin them down, once SD hits the human bases often don't last long.
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Odin

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2006, 05:53:55 am »
Evlesoa: If you aren't going to contribute to a topic, that is considered spam. When you spam, you lose others' trust.
Basically, nobody cares about you if you do not contribute. Our society is built apon the cooperation of its people, and without differant opinions, we become a one-minded collective of yes-men.
I'd advise you stop.

Anyway, sorry to go off-topic there. Just had to shut up a one-minded yes-man.

Topic: I agree that the armory is a little weak, for its size. A couple Marauder swipes can take down an armory. A large metal box shouldn't be that weak. For balancing, maybe increase the Armory's armor by 10-20%? It may seem like a lot at first, but consider this: Any well-made base ALWAYS has a vulnerable armory. You just can't block off the armory from being sniped, one way or another. Players will get daring in SD as adv. Goons; I know I do. A couple spines is just enough to seriously cripple the Humans. All you have to do then is eliminate the rest of the base defence, obviously through the use of Goon spines. Any Human then is too weak to fight against a team of adv. Goons, considering the spines can kill a "naked" human in one shot.

Either that or make a restriction on whether or not you can rebuild the Reactor/Overmind in SD, seeing as how the only reason why you can is because SD just removes all your build points. Since the Reactor/Overmind cost nothing to build, we can rebuild them in SD. Having ways to "come back" in SD defeats the purpose of SD. It's Sudden Death. You're not supposed to have ways to get powered up. It's supposed to determine a winner, quickly.

EDIT: It would seem that I did not know that being able to rebuild the Reactor/Overmind was an option. However, most competative servers seem to have this enabled. I have played a lot, but only on a few servers.

Evlesoa

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2006, 06:04:31 am »
This REALLY pisses me off... ITS A GODDAMN GAME! The developers know how to make it, I hate it when PEOPLE ignorant PEOPLE, that TELL ME how the game should be if I made it... geeez, suggestion is OK, but telling is NOT ok! Game is fair enough, the humans could perhaps get a little powered up, perhaps something that gives em + resistance to bite atacks, but not slash attacks...

Odin

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2006, 06:06:19 am »
Quote from: "Evlesoa"
This REALLY pisses me off... ITS A GODDAMN GAME! The developers know how to make it, I hate it when PEOPLE ignorant PEOPLE, that TELL ME how the game should be if I made it... geeez, suggestion is OK, but telling is NOT ok! Game is fair enough, the humans could perhaps get a little powered up, perhaps something that gives em + resistance to bite atacks, but not slash attacks...
Heh, and our government is absolutely perfect, and the opinions of its people don't matter?

DIGI_Byte

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2006, 06:15:02 am »
heath for the armoury is an issue though as humans fail with out it specially on S3 vs S3 it doesn't need to be muck just an extra 50-100 hp

Stof

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 10:16:54 am »
Quote from: "Evlesoa"
This REALLY pisses me off... ITS A GODDAMN GAME! The developers know how to make it, I hate it when PEOPLE ignorant PEOPLE, that TELL ME how the game should be if I made it... geeez, suggestion is OK, but telling is NOT ok! Game is fair enough, the humans could perhaps get a little powered up, perhaps something that gives em + resistance to bite atacks, but not slash attacks...

La politique de l'autruche, quelle bonne idée :roll:
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

kevlarman

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 05:04:22 pm »
Quote from: "Evlesoa"
This REALLY pisses me off... ITS A GODDAMN GAME! The developers know how to make it, I hate it when PEOPLE ignorant PEOPLE, that TELL ME how the game should be if I made it... geeez, suggestion is OK, but telling is NOT ok! Game is fair enough, the humans could perhaps get a little powered up, perhaps something that gives em + resistance to bite atacks, but not slash attacks...
you do realize that even the devs have admit that aliens have an unintended advantage in SD, right?
Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

Caveman

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 05:27:57 pm »
Evlesoa if you are only here to bitch, then please leave or pray that you are not playing with this name.
If not then try learning to read!

There was _no_ demand!

@Topic

I really like to play humans (doom-mode with shotgun *G*) And to be honest I don't care about SD or that Aliens have an edge. If my team did not win until SD then tough $hit. Another 15min wouldn't help (usually).

But to touch the hp regen? That'll be to hard.
I'd go for a partial turn off for the armory.
No further buying of weapons/tool/armor, just simple ammunition.

KorJax

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 06:55:52 pm »
Your forgetting one major fact about aliens:


They DO NOT play like humans.

Sure, the overmind doesnt completely cripple the alien team.  But thats the point.  The Aliens play different, and the game is balanced.

Humans need to attack to win, thats the problem.  If you think the Aliens have an advantage at SD, its because your defending.  Aliens need to hide thier base around so they can survive, and then they need to attack.  Remeber that an alien base is very vunerable in many cases without the Aliens for help.  If you send 5 or so attackers durnign SD into the base to attack it, the aliens will LOSE the game unless they help defend.  Ive been in a situation where I was alien and we as a team decided to end the game during SD and attack.   Before we knew what hit us, our base was destroyed without us defending.   Although we eventually destroyed their base aswell.

Humans are dependant on thier base more than aliens yes, but they DO have the advantage tactically, because the alien base is so easy to kill once you find it, and take out it's main defense.

Whilst the aliens dont require thier base to survive, without it they cant evolve into base-destroying class.


But yeah, if both teams had no base during SD, Aliens would win for the fact that they are independant, whilst the humans are dependant.  But if the humans have a base intact, they can easily win SD if they concentrait on the offensive.

Henners

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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2006, 07:41:33 pm »
Seriously, what the christ are you talking about? The loss of the OM is a crippling blow in SD, and all that remains afterwards is mopping up. All the alien defences cease to function, and the aliens can no longer evolve past dretch, generally leaving your base completely safe from destruction and assuring victory....
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SLAVE|Mietz

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2006, 09:55:36 pm »
I strongly suggest the whole map shall blow up on the loss of the OM!!!!!1111oneoneeleven!!2211212

Paradox

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2006, 10:38:17 pm »
How about if the om dies, the aliens get infinite health, because the om is what controlled the alien's health loss! LOL! And how about the overmind eats noobs that complain too.

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Howitzer

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2006, 10:42:52 pm »
Loss of OM is a bitch because if the Humans play good, they'll attack OM and eggs AT THE SAME TIME.
Meaning: No eggs can be built and the necessity of a live OM slows the egg building down horribly.
In that period, Aliens are very weak and Humans ought to take advantage of that by putting in a full scale offensive.

kozak6

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2006, 10:45:01 pm »
Quote from: "Paradox"
And how about the overmind eats noobs that complain too.


It can, if the noobs only get close enough...

 :overmind:

Stof

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2006, 11:38:25 pm »
Quote from: "kozak6"
Quote from: "Paradox"
And how about the overmind eats noobs that complain too.


It can, if the noobs only get close enough...

 :overmind:

Oh, you mean the pitiful 1 damage per second the OM does to a lightly armored human ? You must really be a noob to die because of that only.
urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

SLAVE|Mietz

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The death of the overmind should mean something more.
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2006, 11:48:47 pm »
Quote from: "Stof"
Quote from: "kozak6"
Quote from: "Paradox"
And how about the overmind eats noobs that complain too.


It can, if the noobs only get close enough...

 :overmind:

Oh, you mean the pitiful 1 damage per second the OM does to a lightly armored human ? You must really be a noob to die because of that only.


he said it allready, it eats NOOBs