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Author Topic: The frustration of being a builder  (Read 17097 times)

kozak6

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The frustration of being a builder
« on: August 09, 2006, 10:46:15 am »
*sigh*

Just lost a game for a really stupid reason.

The map was Niveus.  I successfully moved the base to the upstairs box room as an alien.

It was S2 bugs vs s3 aliens.

My defenses were working out rather well, and I was able to rebuild them or watch them repair as dretches and basilisks courageously fought off the occasional bsuits.

The attack began to quicken.  More and more humans arrived.  No fear, my defenses were holding out, and I was rebuilding as grenades lobbed through the doorway.

Then, it happened.

C4PO, or some such name like that, started to build extra eggs with the points I was using for defenses.

I managed to decon the extraneous eggs, yelled at him, and get the defenses back up.

The defenses were disabled again, and a bsuit entered and took out more defenses and maybe an egg or two  He was quickly slain by myself as a granger, and a swarm of dretches.  I go to rebuild the defenses and......

C4PO has taken the opportunity to climb up onto the rafters, and build another egg, a booster, and a barricade or two.

On the rafters.

On the goddamn rafters.

From there, bsuits and other humans congregated on our base, and things took a turn for the worse.

And worse.

And worse.

From there, it was an egg hunt until they finally got me.

So, then, in conclusion...

Eat shit and die, C4PO  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

 :granger:   :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:  :granger:
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Seafoideach

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 11:16:15 am »
Sounds frustrating. Very frustrating. Infuriating, even.


I wonder how badly it would work to have a line in a file somewhere which contains a count of how long the user has played, this number being used to (dis)allow certian things, such as becoming a builder. It should be only a minor inconvenience to experienced players, who could just edit the file (I assume they would either just know of it, or know how to find out what is needed).
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Stof

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 11:23:56 am »
Let's make it so that people who leave the tutorial mode on cannot buy construction kits or select granger :D
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

David

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 11:44:15 am »
Quote from: "Stof"
Let's make it so that people who leave the tutorial mode on cannot buy construction kits or select granger :D


if it doesnt apear as an option thay wont know what thay are missing, not until thay RTFM
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My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Stof

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 12:31:58 pm »
Quote from: "David"
Quote from: "Stof"
Let's make it so that people who leave the tutorial mode on cannot buy construction kits or select granger :D


if it doesnt apear as an option thay wont know what thay are missing, not until thay RTFM

Changing weapons doesn't appear as an option either, it doesn't prevent people from asking how the hell we got better weapons than the rifle.

Besides, people who don't understand what is the construction kit nor how to get it are probably better stuck with a rifle ;)
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Belier13

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 01:17:42 pm »
Granger is the only thing that humans aren't scared to run after, give him a dretch as bodyguard and he's invincible.
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kevlarman

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 03:55:42 pm »
Quote from: "Belier13"
Granger is the only thing that humans aren't scared to run after, give him a dretch as bodyguard and he's invincible.
don't be so sure of that, there is at least one human that knows to avoid my adv. granger unless he has a bsuit.
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Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
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|..d| #
|.@.-##
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Rippy

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 05:31:24 pm »
You've just described every third or fourth game I play. Decon/retarded building happens. All we can do is yell and try to vainly kick the guy and watch him rejoin. Temporary voteban, anyone?
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David

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2006, 05:59:24 pm »
play on a server with admins.
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Any maps not in the MG repo?  Email me or come to irc.freenode.net/#mg.
--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Lava Croft

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2006, 06:17:09 pm »
Quote from: "David"
play on a server with admins.

Look at my sig!!! And yes, you can click on it.
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Paradox

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2006, 06:26:59 pm »
You remember on sst when i was trying to build that one good base on arachnid, and all the fags kept building minibases everywhere.
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∧OMG ENTROPY∧

Lava Croft

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2006, 07:24:02 pm »
Quote from: "Paradox"
You remember on sst when i was trying to build that one good base on arachnid, and all the fags kept building minibases everywhere.

Remember? I can also vividly visualize that same situation at this moment. And when I join SST now, I will most likely end up in such a situation.
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FriendlyFlame

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2006, 08:11:36 pm »
I'm sure most of us have had good games ruined by deconners and crappy builders. I agree with the 'temporary voteban' idea. Ban the hordes of the un-named and deconners!
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kozak6

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2006, 08:24:48 pm »
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Quote from: "David"
play on a server with admins.

Look at my sig!!! And yes, you can click on it.


Faces of Tremulous?
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DIRKDIGGLER

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2006, 08:42:21 pm »
The worst game I was in was when the guy deconned our reactor then told the aliens to come attack us cause he had deconned us. Everytime we tried to build it up again he just ran over and deconned it again. VERY frustrating. Man I wish I had perm ban powers then!
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We are not in favour of a flying alien.

KorJax

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2006, 10:31:03 pm »
I was once a human builder and an "Unnamed Player" joined the game.  He decided to build for humans, but of course, he was really bad at it.  Doing things liek belvivng Teslas are the best defense ever, and he was constantly building a repeater down the hall in Nivius, and spreading out a turret or two.  Good for keeping back dretches, but anything higher its completley useless.  The server doesnt have alot of build points, so he kept deconing our base defense around vital structures so he could sparsly spread out random turrets that completely didnt work at all.

I kept rebuilding though.  He was one of those "stubborn" types that constnantly builds even after i keep reprimanding and kicking him and doesnt know how to communicate to the team.

We literally votekicked him like 5-7 times, but he kept joining and trying to rebuild and already good base into a bad one.  Once every now and he would just become a rifleman, but he never took the hint.  We eventually lost the match because of the turret defense he kept butchering.


Moral of the story:  DO NOT BUILD unless you have experience in playing the game, and understand good positions for buildings, and know the advantages and disadvantages of all buildings and building placements!
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David

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 10:49:55 pm »
Quote from: "KorJax"
Moral of the story:  DO NOT BUILD unless you have experience in playing the game, and understand good positions for buildings, and know the advantages and disadvantages of all buildings and building placements!


uh, no noobs look here. your wasting your time.
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--
My words are mine and mine alone.  I can't speak for anyone else, and there is no one who can speak for me.  If I ever make a post that gives the opinions or positions of other users or groups, then they will be clearly labeled as such.
I'm disappointed that people's past actions have forced me to state what should be obvious.
I am not a dev.  Nothing I say counts for anything.

Stof

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2006, 11:09:14 pm »
Looks more like a griefer than a noob builder you know.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

Mwa

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 12:20:23 am »
Quote from: "kozak6"
Quote from: "Lava Croft"
Quote from: "David"
play on a server with admins.

Look at my sig!!! And yes, you can click on it.


Faces of Tremulous?

Above that.
!SATGNU! is clixable.
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awr.

Rippy

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2006, 12:54:51 am »
Quote from: "KorJax"
Moral of the story:  DO NOT BUILD unless you have experience in playing the game, and understand good positions for buildings, and know the advantages and disadvantages of all buildings and building placements!

Also, while you're at it, DO NOT PLAY THE GAME until you have experience and know how to use every class and not feed the other team. YOU MUST spectate until you gain this knowledge. Heck, DO NOT RUN THIS GAME until you've read in-depth strategies for every class, building, strategy, and map.[/b]

Also, how the heck do you pronounce SATGNU? Sat-g'noo? S.A.T.G.N.U.?
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Jaradcel

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2006, 10:37:15 am »
I agree.

I consider myself a middling fighter (I suck at anything that isn't a lasgun or an adv. 'rauder) but a pro base builder. I pride myself on that actually (noob that I am :P)

WHICH IS WHY I GET VERY FUCKING IRRITATED WHEN RANDOM PEOPLE JUST CON OR DECON WITHOUT EVEN SAYING A WORD.

Anyone who's seen me play knows I always ask a quick "Can I move XYZ" or "Booster/Def Comp going up" etc when I'm playing. I KNOW WTF I'm DOING.

Which is why I absolutely hate bozo's who DON'T and think they do come in and try to run rough shod over me.

Death usually results, and then the guy tries to blame me going "He didn't want me to build my base the way I did" when er... dude, you were th eone who joined the game later.

I've also has the MOST ANNOYING GAME EVER on one of those FF-enabled servers where some fucking UnnamedPlayer actually RIFLED me to death...

While I was moving the reactor.

*head desks*

I cried. Totally. =\
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TOP DRETCHING THE ENGINEER!!!! =(
And fer christsake, DON'T BUILD IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!

Stof

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2006, 10:49:54 am »
Maybe he was trying to help, after all, respawning at a telenode will reset the delay counter of deconstructing the reactor :D

Then again, he was probably a griefer or a complete noob.
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urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.

DIRKDIGGLER

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2006, 12:57:21 pm »
How about when you have been playing a few games and everybody leaves you to be the builder (which is good). I was playing, building, our base was awesome. We had a few maps like that where everything flowed. Then the noob bus rolled into town. You can tell cause all of a sudden we had like 5 builders and people were pulling all the turrets away from the base. I like the neaten up a base and make it tight - You know deocn a tele so you can build it in closer - and somebody had sucked away the BP to build yet another turret like a football field away from the reactor. SO annoting. You have to yell "NOBODY BUILD ANYTHING WHILE I MOVE THE TELENODE". And you know it is just not sinking in....... anyways a LOT of frustration when building, but it can be VERY reqrding when you are playing with the right people (which seems to be rare lol).
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Jex:
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We are not in favour of a flying alien.

ZEL

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2006, 03:45:28 pm »
You cant (and shouldnt) forbid noobs from playing just because they suck, guess what?  You did too once, remember?  I'd rather lose a game helping teach people how to play than be a total ass who tells everybody to let me do everything.  Yes, i can build, kill, and generally play better than most players, but that doesnt give me or anybody else the right to ruin the experience for others.

I'm not saying you should ever let somebody win (haha, i cant  :wink: ) and there are times when i have trouble following my own "dont be a dick" rule.  There are definitely games where its necessary to take charge and direct a team of less experienced players, and its incredibly frustrating if they dont listen to you.  At the same time however, you shouldnt kick them for it.  Unless somebody is purposefully losing the game for you, deal with it.  It happens.

Don't hate the noobs for being noobs, help them learn to be decent players.  If they absolutley dont listen to anybody feel free to kick them, but remember we all sucked once.
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DarkRogue

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2006, 03:52:08 pm »
Zel: The problem is for most noobs they really don't care to get better. They want to fart around, try something 'cool' (which has been tried a dozen times already and failed every single time), and generally ignore anyone that seems to be a recognized face in the community.

Noobs are noobs because they're also mentally retarded.

Newbies are alright, at least they're willing to learn and take guidance.

The former however should all uninstall trem now, stop waiting a week to do such.
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Teiman

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2006, 03:54:28 pm »
Quote from: "DIRKDIGGLER"
but it can be VERY reqrding when you are playing with the right people (which seems to be rare lol).


Well...  Is very rewarding to play with the right people. Granger, builder or riflemen :D
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kevlarman

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2006, 04:00:16 pm »
Quote from: "ZEL"
You cant (and shouldnt) forbid noobs from playing just because they suck
correction (darkrogue somewhat beat me to this, stupid xserver hang): you can't (and shouldn't) forbid newbs from playing just because they suck,  but you can (and sometimes should) kick noobs for refusing to learn, because when they refuse to stop building bases that most aliens can singlehandedly shred to pieces, a lot of other people suffer.
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Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----

next_ghost

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2006, 04:20:49 pm »
One of my last fights for working base with some retarded noob almost ended after he deconned reactor to prevent me from rebuilding turrets inside our base. After he was votekicked, we barely managed to rebuild reactor, some basic defenses and aliens used that time to move base so we had about a minute to get the base working again. Moral of this story (for aliens):

NEVER EVER move overmind when you can wipe the other team out in a single strike.

I can't count how many times some (even really good) builder gave humans enough time to rebuild their base from scratch just by moving overmind... :roll: Please, builders, would it hurt you if you asked if there's a stalemate? Don't move overmind while your team is in successful offense (you won't get any response from fighters because they have their claws full and can't type) and NEVER EVER move overmind while in defense (also no response from fighters) because you could easily lose the entire game. If you get response that doesn't say otherwise, there's most likely stalemate at human base entrance and you can safely move overmind.
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If my answer to your problem doesn't seem helpful, it means I won't help you until you show some effort to fix your problem yourself!
1.2.0 release's been delayed for 5:48:00 already because of stupid questions.

DIRKDIGGLER

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2006, 04:31:15 pm »
Quote from: "ZEL"
You cant (and shouldnt) forbid noobs from playing just because they suck, guess what?  You did too once, remember?  I'd rather lose a game helping teach people how to play than be a total ass who tells everybody to let me do everything.  Yes, i can build, kill, and generally play better than most players, but that doesnt give me or anybody else the right to ruin the experience for others.

I'm not saying you should ever let somebody win (haha, i cant  :wink: ) and there are times when i have trouble following my own "dont be a dick" rule.  There are definitely games where its necessary to take charge and direct a team of less experienced players, and its incredibly frustrating if they dont listen to you.  At the same time however, you shouldnt kick them for it.  Unless somebody is purposefully losing the game for you, deal with it.  It happens.

Don't hate the noobs for being noobs, help them learn to be decent players.  If they absolutley dont listen to anybody feel free to kick them, but remember we all sucked once.


All of that is fine and good. BUT - I did get "yelled" at once when I started building in the wrong spot and you know what? It made me STOP doing it and I took the time to see how they were doing it and I asked questions to learn. I still play with new people who dont listen, they build where and when they want (at the expense of the win) and are a general pain in the butt.

Yeah yeah, we were all new once, but c'mon - you just cant change dumb when you are in the middle of a game.... Whichj I think is the original point of this thread - to vent on how frustrating it can be to be a builder ;)
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Doom | Doom II | Quake | Unreal | Quake II | Quake III | Unreal Tournament | UT2003 | UT2004 | DOOM III | Tremulous ;)
>
Jex:
Quote
We are not in favour of a flying alien.

Rippy

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The frustration of being a builder
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2006, 06:45:29 pm »
Just got an idea.

Vote > Team Vote > Designated Builder

The Designated Builder's buildings can't be deconed, and he can bring up a list of all teammates to "assign" them structures to build. (such as, letting MassiveDamage have rights to build 1 egg, or decon 1 egg, etc)

Then, if the builder is being a fag, you either vote to strip the player's DB privileges, or you vote for another DB.

Of course, the power of the DB would have to be fine-tuned, but I think that'd be a simple enough solution to the deconing problem.

(oh, and the first granger/ckit to join the team becomes the DB by default)

(oh, and maybe the DB can hand down his privileges to another player without calling a vote)

Either way, the basic concept of having a designated builder seems good to me. Comments?
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